Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

Regarding comparison 2: I prefer B. No, I think I prefer A. :-)

[Spannko]

Yeah, difficult! But I think I prefer the two A’s

[tokenbrit]

Comparison 1 is pretty clear to me, but hearing pro's and con's in the second comparison...

The way you phrased it I wasn't sure if you wanted confirmation on 1, and we're looking for opinions on 2, or just wanted help with 2... Since you said 1 was obvious, I thought B then Began convincing myself that B was Better in 2 too...

There's a reverb or distortion that seems to be reduced in B so there's less echo or overhang of the notes. That makes B sound cleaner, but is it more musical?

Is there a reason you appear to be recording close to one speaker, and can we have another song to decide, or is there something about the reverb effect... Playing with driver torque settings maybe, and this track highlights the effect?

[Charlie1]

Comparison 1 is pretty clear to me, but hearing pro's and con's in the second comparison...

The way you phrased it I wasn't sure if you wanted confirmation on 1, and we're looking for opinions on 2, or just wanted help with 2... Since you said 1 was obvious, I thought B then Began convincing myself that B was Better in 2 too...

There's a reverb or distortion that seems to be reduced in B so there's less echo or overhang of the notes. That makes B sound cleaner, but is it more musical?

Is there a reason you appear to be recording close to one speaker, and can we have another song to decide, or is there something about the reverb effect... Playing with driver torque settings maybe, and this track highlights the effect?

1A is K20 an 1B is K400. I thought folks might be interested so I posted them but for me the K400 clearly works better with the 212s. This is why I recorded up close so you couldn't see the cables.

Retaining the Silvers, 2A is Linn Blacks and 2B is Linn Silvers. One moment I prefer the blacks, the next the silvers, so I suppose (for me) perfection lies somewhere between them. It would be nice to have a fine tuned Lejonklou interconnect :) The silvers were slightly disadvantaged in the cable dressing department which was much harder and not ideal - they are thicker and stiffer. I'll have to come back to that when I have time. I think I'll stick with Silvers for now and maybe go back to Blacks another time. Defo won't sell the blacks though.

Thanks everyone for listening as always.

PS After these clips, I swapped the decks over from 1992-spec (VM95ML) to 2002-spec, so the new deck has Cirkus/Lingo2/Ekos2/Adikt/Tramp2. That's a much better match for this system and I think offers pretty good balance now. It was too warm and shut in before and I was never 100% happy with the VM95ML on that deck, unlike the Valhalla/Ittok/K9-body deck. This '02 deck is a lot more tuneful too. I know we're all about the tune and musicality, but if the balance is off then it can annoy and distract me from the music so synergy is also very important to me. Maybe something that most folks here take for granted who have modern spec LP12s, etc.

[u252agz]

Comparision 1 - I prefer B but not by as much as I was expecting with K400 vs K20

Comparision 2 - More difficult to choose. If you put a gun to my head - I would go for B

[Charlie1]

Thanks u252agz

[Efraim roots]

1A is K20 an 1B is K400. I thought folks might be interested so I posted them but for me the K400 clearly works better with the 212s. This is why I recorded up close so you couldn't see the cables.

Retaining the Silvers, 2A is Linn Blacks and 2B is Linn Silvers. One moment I prefer the blacks, the next the silvers, so I suppose (for me) perfection lies somewhere between them. It would be nice to have a fine tuned Lejonklou interconnect :) The silvers were slightly disadvantaged in the cable dressing department which was much harder and not ideal - they are thicker and stiffer. I'll have to come back to that when I have time. I think I'll stick with Silvers for now and maybe go back to Blacks another time. Defo won't sell the blacks though.

Thanks everyone for listening as always.

PS After these clips, I swapped the decks over from 1992-spec (VM95ML) to 2002-spec, so the new deck has Cirkus/Lingo2/Ekos2/Adikt/Tramp2. That's a much better match for this system and I think offers pretty good balance now. It was too warm and shut in before and I was never 100% happy with the VM95ML on that deck, unlike the Valhalla/Ittok/K9-body deck. This '02 deck is a lot more tuneful too. I know we're all about the tune and musicality, but if the balance is off then it can annoy and distract me from the music so synergy is also very important to me. Maybe something that most folks here take for granted who have modern spec LP12s, etc.

This makes total sense after hearing the clips. Split K400 is better, nothing more to say. Regards to black and silver, silver is better (or are they?) but in the end quite a bit about hifi polish. I think your system sounds really good!

[tokenbrit]

1A is K20 an 1B is K400. I thought folks might be interested so I posted them but for me the K400 clearly works better with the 212s. This is why I recorded up close so you couldn't see the cables...

Thanks everyone for listening as always.

PS After these clips, I swapped the decks over from 1992-spec (VM95ML) to 2002-spec, so the new deck has Cirkus/Lingo2/Ekos2/Adikt/Tramp2. That's a much better match for this system and I think offers pretty good balance now...

Wonder if the up close recording minimised the differences somehow - closer than expected between speaker cables & interconnects. Always fun listening tho' :)

Need more clips now with the '02 LP12 ;)

[Charlie1]

Thanks Efraim and Tokenbrit

I think the systems needs to fine tuning to do the '02 deck justice but I'll get there.

[Defender]

on comparison 1 I preferred B when I came to Comparison 2 and heard A I thought why is A now as good as B in comparison 1?
In my system the Black‘s have „more drive“ in a good way and the Silvers are more „elegant“ … I use the Blacks currently.

[tokenbrit]

on comparison 1 I preferred B when I came to Comparison 2 and heard A I thought why is A now as good as B in comparison 1?

When listening, it did cross my mind that 1B might be the same as 2A...

(after that it was 2B, or not to 2B? ;)

[tpetsch]

Comparison 1 is pretty clear to me, but hearing pro's and con's in the second comparison...

Comparison 1
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq9gqktypnim3 ... 4.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0

Comparison 2
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4ob0a9xlm0vh ... 5.mp4?dl=0

When I listen to both A/B's I hear:

b1-A) Less Hi-Fi but helps you better understand the flow of the music, gets me more involved in the track, I can feel that grungy emotion shining thru.
b1-B) Wows you at first with the texture of the instruments until you realize that you're not interested in the track, it just lumbers along, emotionless by comparison to A.

b2-A & b2-B)

This one is interesting for me because in my system -analog only- the Blacks is definitely more involving and tuneful, one might argue the Silvers are more revealing but at the cost of overall musicality, in fact I had a friend over -ex shop owner- and I pulled several blinds on him on different tracks and he always picked the silvers as less musical, he would even say "those are the Silvers, right", and he was, and I agreed too, but at first they can fool you, I'll attest to that. But here, in this clip, in your system I think I prefer the silvers, very strange.

Questions:
What interconnect cables were you using in Comparison 1?
What Speaker cables were you using in Comparison 2?

[Whatsmynaim]

I prefer 1-B and 2-A. Seems to me you got a very good Black or a not so great Silver.
A follow up question to anyone who knows. Has Linn improved the Linn Black in let's say the last 20 years or so?

[Charlie1]

Questions:
What interconnect cables were you using in Comparison 1?
What Speaker cables were you using in Comparison 2?

Comparison 1 is Linn blacks
Comparison 2 is K400

[Charlie1]

I prefer 1-B and 2-A. Seems to me you got a very good Black or a not so great Silver.
A follow up question to anyone who knows. Has Linn improved the Linn Black in let's say the last 20 years or so?

As this has generated some interest I will get the system setup properly and then record Silvers vs Blacks again. Might be a few weeks though. Remind me if I forget (anyone).

[tpetsch]

Questions:
What interconnect cables were you using in Comparison 1?
What Speaker cables were you using in Comparison 2?

Comparison 1 is Linn blacks
Comparison 2 is K400

Interesting..

I prefer 1-B and 2-A. Seems to me you got a very good Black or a not so great Silver.
A follow up question to anyone who knows. Has Linn improved the Linn Black in let's say the last 20 years or so?

...or made it worse? -All my blacks and I have at least 20 pairs, some still NIB are over 20 years old.

[lejonklou]

Comparison 1 is pretty clear to me, but hearing pro's and con's in the second comparison...

Comparison 1
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq9gqktypnim3 ... 4.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0

Comparison 2
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4ob0a9xlm0vh ... 5.mp4?dl=0

On 1 I find the bass a lot better on B. But there are other qualities in A, it holds things together very nicely. I think I’d choose B though.

Was that A: K20 with Knekt in both ends? New or old Knekt? And B: Split K400, so still single wire? And Knekt in both ends, new or old?

On 2 I think I prefer B. And that was Linn Silvers? Which version of them?

[Charlie1]

It's split k400

Connectors are something from Switzerland that my dealer can't get anymore. They are gold platter and can fit of BFA terminals cos they are hollow inside. I just find them super easy to use and when chopping and changing so much it was great. I have a feeling things will settle now so I could get linn knekt fitted at some point.

V2 Silvers. I don't have the patience to go searching for good V1s anymore

[tpetsch]

Comparison 1 is pretty clear to me, but hearing pro's and con's in the second comparison...

Comparison 1
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq9gqktypnim3 ... 4.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0

Comparison 2
A.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/3lnufeg3b1px8 ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B.) https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4ob0a9xlm0vh ... 5.mp4?dl=0

On 1 I find the bass a lot better on B. But there are other qualities in A, it holds things together very nicely. I think I’d choose B though.

So the bass is better on C1 (B) yet (A) holds it together better -which I agree- and you choose (B)? ...What do you have when you don't have the most fundamental musical adhesion of the tune? I have zero interest in how the bass sounds when the band isn't playing together.

And FWIW, I never like those Knekt connectors they stick, gall, disform, break and sometimes can become very difficult to unplug from amp and speaker sockets so just the basic Super Deltrons for me, never an issue with them functionally & musically having soldered hundreds of them over the past 30 years.

https://www.newark.com/deltron-componen ... dp/26M7581

[lejonklou]

It's split k400

Connectors are something from Switzerland that my dealer can't get anymore. They are gold platter and can fit of BFA terminals cos they are hollow inside. I just find them super easy to use and when chopping and changing so much it was great. I have a feeling things will settle now so I could get linn knekt fitted at some point.

V2 Silvers. I don't have the patience to go searching for good V1s anymore

I see.

If you can find old used Knekts (grey and dull as opposed to the new ones that are shiny), they can be cleaned up using green paper, drilled out to remove all the old solder and bent into a perfect shape with a pair of pointy pliers. When soldered to 248 cm long split K400 using my solder wire at the optimal temperature, the result is shockingly good.

What I’m trying to say is that when one gets all the details right, the sum feels bigger than the parts.

So with V2 Silvers, you mean “Analogue Interconnect II”? Or you mean the original cable with slotted connectors?

[lejonklou]

So the bass is better on C1 (B) yet (A) holds it together better -which I agree- and you choose (B)? ...What do you have when you don't have the most fundamental musical adhesion of the tune? I have zero interest in how the bass sounds when the band isn't playing together.

I said that A holds it together nicely. You said better.

Bass is fundamental to me. I don’t mean how it sounds, but how it times and moves the music forward.

My guesstimation from the two clips was that overall, B was perhaps better.

I agree that Knekt isn’t the most durable or practical connector. Deltrons are far superior in that department. Sadly both of them sounded better in the past, because of changes in their plating. And old Knekts sound better than anything I have ever come across.

[ThomasOK]

On Comparison 1 I'm not all that thrilled with either clip when I do the comparisons. A sounds a bit cleaner but too in my face, although once the music gets moving it flows pretty well. B sounds initially more musical to me but it seems to get weighed down when things get going. I'd like a combination of the best of the two. Having to pick one I'd probably go for B because of the lack of aggressiveness of A but qualitatively I think they are very close but with different tendencies.

On Comparison 2 the two clips are closer than I would have expected. I prefer B as I find I am more involved in the music and it seems to move better but A is also good.

The strange thing is that when I first played C2 A I knew that this was the same combination of cables as C1 B but C2 A seemed to me to immediately have more of the life I felt was missing from C1 B. After going between A and B of C2 a couple of times, and still thinking there was more life in C2 A than I expected I looked at the numbers and saw that C2A and C1 B are the same clip! That made me wonder so I did a comparison of C1 B and C2 A a couple of times and I still felt that C2 A had more life and was a bit better track. Not day and night but the small improvement was consistent. You've got me as to why. Did anybody else try this?

[tpetsch]

It's pretty obvious to me now that these cable/interconnect changes are system dependent and can very from one system to another of different make-up, just like swapping out different capacitors/electronics brands into a Linn amp that Frederic may choose to use in his amps won't necessarily make the Linn amp sound any better. My all analog system it's clear, no question that K20 & Linn black is more musical. But in Charlies system things are not so cut and dried although there I still prefer the K-20, much more musical, but the Silvers in his system aren't as obviously wrong as they are in my system. ...If listening to a digital source I can also see why many would prefer the K-400 and Silvers since digital is generally all out of tune anyway so things like better bass can be beneficial I suppose..

So what vintage is Charlies Blacks??

[ThomasOK]

I prefer 1-B and 2-A. Seems to me you got a very good Black or a not so great Silver.
A follow up question to anyone who knows. Has Linn improved the Linn Black in let's say the last 20 years or so?

I don't know if they have actually improved them as I haven't done a comparison, but Linn changed the Black Interconnect to Black Interconnect II a little while after they changed the Silvers to version II. On the Silvers the internal construction appears to be the same but the II is made in Scotland as opposed to the original made in China. I think it is the same case with the Blacks. Linn has never made a big deal to dealers about the II being an improvement but the Linn employee who straightened out what the II versions were all about said he was told the new version was better. I can't imagine they would say otherwise.

[Charlie1]

In that case, mine are v1 with slots