Speaker placement

Per A · Post by **Per A** » 2009-09-29 19:08

Dear All,

I have had an interesting experince following
http://www.audiophysic.de/aufstellung/beispiel_e.html

It lead me to moving my speakers closer to the side walls and further fromt he back wall.
I like it. :)

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-09-29 23:30

But is it better?

I've tried many strange rules and methods. My conclusion is that whenever they rely on fixed distances or angles, fractions of room dimensions, sound imaging or anything else that is not related to musical performance, the result is completely random. Might sound ok in one room and terrible in the next.

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-09-30 16:00

Is it unrealistic to offer some generalised rules as a starting point?

I spent a lot of time shifting my speakers around more or less at random, finally achieving a position that sounded best.

I then stumbled upon some guidelines which I used as a new starting point and quickly got to an arrangement that was quite a bit better than the results I got from random+ignorance.

I definitely had to experiment a bit second time round, but my first attempt at placement was so bad that small random changes in position were unlikely to ever lead me to the position I finally adopted.

Per A · Post by **Per A** » 2009-09-30 17:54

Since it's physics there has to a rule but who cracks it?

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2009-09-30 18:32

I've had good luck with the Cardas Method. Distance from back wall is less than they suggest. My back wall has fireplace with built in bookcases on each side so I don't know where to measure from anyway.

You've got to start somewhere. Then the music should let you know better or worse.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-09-30 19:30

Per A wrote:Since it's physics there has to a rule but who cracks it?

Since all rooms are different, you only have one rule; "there are no rules"
Simple as that!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-09-30 19:57

It's true you've got to start somewhere, so there can a point in offering suggestions around that. But I'm rather convinced that without the Tune Method, you won't get great results.

It's not my intention to boast, but when I'm installing systems, I get the impression that many people have never experienced a really good speaker positioning. Some have spent a lot of time setting them up but I can hear straight away that the system is seriously underperforming. When later the last millimeters are fine tuned, some get an "aha!-moment" when the music just suddenly snaps together and makes sense.

I guess what I want to say is that the final attention to millimeters, fasteners, levelling and cable positions really make a much bigger difference than moving the speakers a whole meter from one bad position to another. And the general guidelines out there all seem to miss that point.

springwood64 · Post by **springwood64** » 2009-09-30 21:36

lejonklou wrote:when I'm installing systems, I get the impression that many people have never experienced a really good speaker positioning. Some have spent a lot of time setting them up but I can hear straight away that the system is seriously underperforming. When later the last millimeters are fine tuned, some get an "aha!-moment" when the music just suddenly snaps together and makes sense.

Damn - so there really is no substitute for experience. That's just not fair :(

Since I lack your experience and strongly suspect that an expert would quickly find fault with my positioning I'm curious to figure out if I can improve my set up without spending months moving speakers around.

Do you find that you can spot bad speaker positions before you listen, or do you normally have to listen first to determine just how far out they are?

If the former, that would imply you have built up a repertoire of configurations which you know work, and perhaps one could derive some guidelines from this. I guess I'm assuming that you pick a rough starting point and then use Tunedem to refine it.

. . . or maybe I should just pay my local dealer for an hour of his time and get him to sort it out. :roll:

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2009-09-30 21:42

No you must spend months - many months :lol:

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-10-01 18:56

springwood64 wrote:Do you find that you can spot bad speaker positions before you listen, or do you normally have to listen first to determine just how far out they are?

I always try to guess, but I'm not always right. Also picking a starting point tends to become a "let's see how good I can guess" game. But they don't always end up where I expect them to.

I guess I'm assuming that you pick a rough starting point and then use Tunedem to refine it.

Yes. Or, if the furnishing is completely free, I try several positions. Against this wall or against that.

What I do find is important to be effective is to have a clearly defined method and stick to that from beginning to end. Never make several changes at the same time or inconsistently change something you've already optimised. The classic Linn method is to optimise distance to back wall, then distance between speakers, then toe in. I have two methods, one that I use when the speakers can be positioned completely symmetrical against the back wall. The other when the room or the position is assymetrical.

. . . or maybe I should just pay my local dealer for an hour of his time and get him to sort it out. :roll:

If he's good, I would do it.