Lejonklou and Harbeth?

[mbabst]

Hi

Do you think Lejonklou amps do well with Harbeth sepakers? Who is using this combination? What amp and what speaker?

[Defender]

I recommend you to read the thread below your new created thread
https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 582#p53582
it might answer your question

[mbabst]

Thanks. Seems like it's a great match with the 5/9 so it will be a great match with my C7.

[mrco99]

I have played Graham LS6 and LS5/9 with Boazu and the separates Sagatun & Tundra stereo and this worked very well - in fact the 5/9 have meanwhile become my wife's favourite speaker, both musically and aesthetically.

So yes, I think Harbeth C7 would be a good match too. Seeing your system signature, replacing the 5125/D with a Tundra would be the most logical first step....

[David Neel]

I have played Graham LS6 and LS5/9 with Boazu and the separates Sagatun & Tundra stereo and this worked very well - in fact the 5/9 have meanwhile become my wife's favourite speaker, both musically and aesthetically.

So yes, I think Harbeth C7 would be a good match too. Seeing your system signature, replacing the 5125/D with a Tundra would be the most logical first step....

Marco, your wife has excellent taste :)

mbabst, I would like to suggest that conventional wisdom is not always the perfect answer. Marco is correct, a Tundra would be a massive upgrade... but it seems that you are using the Linn DVC. Eliminating this and using a Lejonklou pre will be a massive musical upgrade also. For the same (ish) money, I'd suggest you also listen to Boazu.

[mbabst]

So you are basically suggesting to deactivate the Akurates volume control and use it as a Streamer/DAC only?

[Defender]

yes that is what he suggests - and I suggest the same.

[ThomasOK]

yes that is what he suggests - and I suggest the same.

Me three.

[willem kuis]

Hi

I have not tried another speaker but Harbeth with Lejonklou.
However, For me it’s a musical match made in heaven!

And especially since I replaced my Kikkin 2.2 for a Sagatun 1.3 in my main system. (Thanks again, Defender)
That even got better since I bypass my NAD c 658 with a simple Meridian Explorer2 USB DAC which is now directly connected between my Roon Nucleus and the Sagatun.
It’s really incredible how the Lejonklou Tundra/Sagatun combo made my Harbeth’s C7 ES-3 sing like never before.

My Kikkin 2.2 is now being used as a Pre in my home-office in combination with a NAIM NAP 200: making music on my Harbeth’s P3 ESR. Also great!

P.s.: I use Duelund DCA16GA as Loudspeakercables.

[mbabst]

Thank you all, Lejonklou and Harbeth seems like a great musical match and I have to think about the preamp to. I thought the consensus is that Linn has solved the problems with DVC with the Katalyst upgrade. Why do you guys don‘t think so? Do you really think a Sagatun+Tundra+Cheap DAC will outperform a Linn DSM/3 Katalyst+Tundra?

I always thought Harbeths like power but it seems Boazu and Tundra with 40/70 watts into 8/4 ohms are enough. And there is another really cool thing about getting a Boazu and Sagatun preamp I have never thought of before until today: I play electric guitar. I have a Tweed Deluxe amp and also a Universal Audio Ox box, which lets me play the amp cranked at moderate volumes and get the output from cinch cables or from a headphone out. With the Boazu or Tundra I could play backing tracks through the Linn ADSM and at the same time play my guitar through the Ox box, as Boazu and Tundra can work like a mixer.

@mrco99 I probably have to give you a shout soon, it was nice getting my Slipsik from you.

[Defender]

I dont have a Akurate DSM but a Akurate DS/Katalyst - I used the DVC to test out if I can live with it but could not. It sounded transparent and detailed but without flesh and musicality - I might be over exagerating but I think it robs the soul of the music. However to be fair we also have users here who are absolutely happy with the DVC of the Akurate Katalyst.
I decided to buy a Sagatun Stereo - that sounded really wonderfull and now moved on to the Sagatun Monos which is even better.
So in your case - depending what your finances allow I would either go the Boazu route or if you have more financial freedom start with Sagatun Stereo and later you can change your Linn amps to Tundra.

[David Neel]

I dont have a Akurate DSM but a Akurate DS/Katalyst - I used the DVC to test out if I can live with it but could not. It sounded transparent and detailed but without flesh and musicality - I might be over exagerating but I think it robs the soul of the music. However to be fair we also have users here who are absolutely happy with the DVC of the Akurate Katalyst.
I decided to buy a Sagatun Stereo - that sounded really wonderfull and now moved on to the Sagatun Monos which is even better.
So in your case - depending what your finances allow I would either go the Boazu route or if you have more financial freedom start with Sagatun Stereo and later you can change your Linn amps to Tundra.

I had the same reaction to ADS/3 vs Lejonklou...

You don't need another DAC, disabling the DVC on the Linn will still let you use it as a streamer/DAC.

[mbabst]

Well funds would allow the Tundra/Sagatun route but not at the same time.

[macbacchi]

hello all there. i have some Harbeth, SHL 5+ and P3 ES-2. i have to confirm that its some good combination with tundra monos. i listen via Linn KDSM kat or ADSM kat, also over Shindo valve amplification from Verdier Nouvelle Platine or Streamer. Its just good music, involving and authentic. I can compare to Shindo Talbot F2A or some Linn and Naim Power Amps. And i prefer to listen to Lejonklou and Harbeth. It just works fine for me. no problems driving the Harbeth with tundra monos.

[mbabst]

Regarding Linn DVC, do you know this paper?

https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/ ... re-amp.pdf

I think DVC has really improved a lot with Katalyst and I had a non-Katalyst ADS/2 before.

I think I might go with Tundra first. The 5125 (and my old Akito 1) is definitely the weak link in my chain.

[lejonklou]

Regarding Linn DVC, do you know this paper?

https://small.linncdn.com/white-papers/ ... re-amp.pdf

I think DVC has really improved a lot with Katalyst and I had a non-Katalyst ADS/2 before.

I think I might go with Tundra first. The 5125 (and my old Akito 1) is definitely the weak link in my chain.

Once upon a time Linn was a company that said:

Ignore the technical nonsense!
Ignore the reviews!
Ignore what is considered "common knowledge"!
Just listen!
If it sounds better, it is better.

Today they publish technical nonsense when trying to convince us what is better.

[mbabst]

Well I can‘t judge if this is technical nonsense but I can say with certainty that DVC has improved with Katalyst. Will try to get both Tundra and Sagatun for a home demo soon.

[teatime]

Today they publish technical nonsense when trying to convince us what is better.

Technical white papers like this from Linn are hardly common (I'm only aware of this one, Chakra, and probably one about Exakt. Are there more? Chakra must be fifteen years ago by now..), nor are they exactly pushing them (I can't find either of these through Linn's homepage today).

I honestly cannot make out if you think this is "technical nonsense" because it is

1. Insufficiently technical
   This could well be, but most readers probably don't have your level of technical understanding but still appreciate some insight, even if rather superficial, into how things actually work.
2. Actually nonsensical / incorrect
   This would surprise me, but perhaps that is the case. Do tell.
3. Simply irrelevant
   "Technical implementation is irrelevant. Just listen." ?
   
   Well, this is actually in the above paper:

   A pre-amp is a pre-amp, be it digital or analog. Digital processing and analog circuits are
   just the technological means of achieving the functionality one is after; in the case of the
   preamp, source switching and volume control. What matters is not the technology chosen,
   but how well that technology allows one to protect the music signal.
   
   Of course, measurements and engineering analysis can help us understand why something
   sounds better, but listening is the only way to confirm that it is better.
   
   Through extensive Tunedem based listening we are confident that the Klimax DSM is the
   best pre-amp Linn has ever made.

Given how controversial the move to digital preamps was (and clearly still is), I can't fault Linn for trying to explain why they took it.

[Defender]

it is a b and c + this article is a fools catcher they contradict their own benchmarks for testing (tune dem) even though they state they have

[lejonklou]

In my opinion nearly all technical explanations why A sound better than B are nonsense. They use popularized concepts and when one looks a bit more closely, it's common to find exceptions that contradict the explanation. And then the explanation turns out not to be that valid after all.

My impression was that Linn released this paper because the original DVC was felt by the vast majority of listeners (at least everyone I talked to at the time) to be inferior to their best analogue preamp. So they tried to convince by tech talk instead.

I agree that the Katalyst is less bad as a volume control than the earlier versions.

[Defender]

yes this article was always wolf in sheep’s clothing for me - a technical/scientific dressed paper which was actually a marketing paper

[Fred11]

Or save up and go Källa-Boazu. That sounds like a two-box solution hard to beat. It sounds like it could even better a Linn Klimax- sagatun-mono pre-power?
I have two Linn Klimax Renew Ds/1 and two Boazus in different rooms, and of course a LP-12. The simple streaming-integrated lets me just focus on the beautiful music playing in and through my house.
F

[mbabst]

Could be nice but I‘d give up on room correction and digital inputs. I would still need a DAC for TV/Apple TV. But if Källa-Boazu would be better than Akurate DSM/Sagatun/Tundra, the hassle of a separate DAC might be worth it.

[lejonklou]

Apple TV can use Källa to play its materiaL. I don't think there exists a DAC that can better it.

I am so much looking forward to your impressions when you compare Källa with other streamers. I can't wait to hear and read the comments.

[mbabst]

But will it be lip-synced? Usually when playing video content via HDMI to the TV and sound via Airplay, then sound via Airplay has a noticable delay. Tried that with my old DS.