ADSM to Kikkin

[jraskin]

Dear all,

I have currently a MDS-Kikkin2.2-3x2250D-LINN242 system. I am looking to upgrade the MDS to a ADSM/1. Beside the improved quality of the DS, one advantage of the ADSM/1 would be to be able to use a Rega P3 that I own but that I do not use for the moment because of the unique input of the Kikkin. I wonder if I could use the ADSM (DS section and turntable pre-amp) and feed the Kikkin to do analog volume control (without passing by the digital volume control) ? Thanks in advance for sharing related experience.

Best regards,

JF

[Sopper]

Yes, that's possible.
I have this setup with the Majik Dsm/2 currently.
Use fixed volume (=line out) and the DSM will function as streamer, dac and phono preamp.

[jraskin]

Thanks for the quick and precise answer.

All the best,

JF

[Rulah]

Is the Kikkin superior to mdsm/2 & adms/1 as pre?

I remember reading alot of fuzz about the digital pre being superior to analog pre, when linn discontinued the analog pre-amps.

Also that people reported better resusults when using the DS with digital volume control (kazoo), straight in to amp.

[ThomasOK]

Is the Kikkin superior to mdsm/2 & adms/1 as pre?

I remember reading alot of fuzz about the digital pre being superior to analog pre, when linn discontinued the analog pre-amps.

Also that people reported better resusults when using the DS with digital volume control (kazoo), straight in to amp.

It has been my experience in every comparison that I have done that a good analog preamp (KK, AK, Sagatun Mono or stereo, Kikkin, etc.) is superior to the digital volume control in any of the DS or DSM models. I think you will find that most people on this forum have the same experience and on the Linn forum there are also a fair few people who will not give up their KK to use the DVC.

In terms of tunefulness and musicality (one and the same to me) the Kikkin 2.2 is superior to the analog preamp stage in the MDSM or the original Akurate Kontrol and close to, but not quite as tuneful, as the Akurate Kontrol/1 (stereo only version). Any Sagatun and the preamp stage in the Boazu will beat all of them.

[jraskin]

Hello,

I have finally bought a RKDS/2. I am using it with fixed volume output and the Kikkin2.2 as preamp together with 3x2250/D and LINN242. I am very happy with the result. The RKDS/2 is extremely musical and the Kikkin does a great job. The Kikkin does not seem to weaken the setup quite the contrary: I briefly tried the DVC and even if the result was good, I was not convienced that it was an improvement for the musical involvement.

All the best,

JF

[jraskin]

Dear all,

Here is an update.

When thinking again at what I did to test the DVC of the RKDS/2, I realized that the Kikkin is inverting the phase of the signal (due to an odd number of amplification stages inside) and that I did not change the speaker cable when trying the DVC. I was thus playing with the phase inverted.

I decided yesterday to give it a new try with the speaker cable set back to normal (without phase invertion). I also installed a pair of inline attenuators (-10db) on the cable from the RKDS/2 to the input of the first of the three 2250Ds.

The system is in a dedicated room that is treated acoustically with absorbers and diffusers so I usually play around 65-70, and with the attenuators, the digital volume is between 75-80 (so in a quite optimal window for DVC). The results now with the DVC are clearly **much** better than before. There is a lot of information, a lot of air, very nice highs and lows, and more importantly to my hears an involving flow of music. I will keep this for a week or two before going back to the Kikkin. I think it is the only way to really decide between the two configs.

All the best,

JF

[jraskin]

Dear all,

I finally come back on this thread to report my experience with using the DVC of the RKDS/2.

I used the DVC this last month and listen to a lot of music. I mainly listen to jazz and classical music (all kinds: chamber music, orchestral and vocal), but I do occasionally listen to good old rock and pop too.

But to compare components, I usually use recordings that I do not know too well and I use music which requires a good rendering of tune to be worth listening to. For example, string quartets are usually quite demanding regarding tune because of the interplay between musicians. While in live performance you usually understand very well the interplay between the different voices, it is usually challenging for music systems to do justice to this kind of music. Try to listen Chostakovitch quartets or the Verklarte Nacht on a bad system or from a bad recording and you will most probably give up while those pieces are musical gems. So I did mostly compare the two configs using classical music of that kind and concentrated on the understandability of the music.

On this basis, it is now clear that RKDS/2 direct to 2250/D (with a 10db attenuator) is amazingly good and gives better results than using the Kikkin. It does not mean that Kikkin is not a good pre-amp, on the contrary I think that it is indeed an excellent pre-amp and a killer for the money. When a got it some years ago, I was very much happy and it did a very good job for all those years (and it was much better than the Wakonda and the Exotic that I had in my system before). Using Kikkin was also clearly better than DVC on my Majik DS at that time, so at least with the first versions of the DS firmware (I did not try with the most recent versions).

I do not know if the software has changed regarding DVC or if the output stage of the RKDS/2 does a better job in driving the amps but now the results with DVC (and a 10db attenuator) is amazing. Voices are also way better and much easier to follow (for example on lieder music of schubert or opera).

As I have only the RKDS/2 as a source for the moment, I will stick to DVC.

All the best,

JF

[lejonklou]

Thank you for the update, JF!

Sounds to me like you need to hear a better preamp than Kikkin. [Happy grinning smiley]

[jraskin]

Quite possible... but currently hard to picture: ...listening to Shostakovich piano quintet by Leonskaja and the Borindin Quartet. Just wonderful. ;-) Nevertheless, being a scientist, I am always open to novelty and progress.

All the best,

JF

[jtx]

Yes, that's possible.
I have this setup with the Majik Dsm/2 currently.
Use fixed volume (=line out) and the DSM will function as streamer, dac and phono preamp.

Hello,

This is an old thread but i would like to know how does the DSM built-in phonostage react in this configuration.
When listening to vinyl does the Kikkin have an influence on the sound ?

Thanks

jtx

[Matteo]

Second attempt to resurrect this interesting thread.

We all know that the Kikkin and the Giella have only one input and that the ADSM could be set to fixed volume and act as a multiple-source (phono amp, dac, and streamer).

However, in the last version of the ADSM (3 / Katalyst) the “direct” function (the possibility to use an AVC for the analogue inputs) is no longer available (all the analogue and digital inputs are digitized and the signal sent to the DVC).

Now the question is: when the ADSM/3 is used as only source (fixed volume), the signal sent to the preamp through its line out is always digital (also for the phono board)?

M.

[Tendaberry]

I'm pretty sure, that the analog signal is converted to digital and then again converted to analog, before reaching the analog outputs.

[matthias]

I'm pretty sure, that the analog signal is converted to digital and then again converted to analog, before reaching the analog outputs.

This makes sense to me as well.

[Matteo]

Just sent an email to the Linn Help

Let’s see

M.

[matthias]

According to the ADSM3 manual...

"ANALOGUE OUTPUTS (XLR,variable level) - To connect to a preamplifier (or power amplifier when internal volume control is enabled) with balanced (XLR) analogue inputs.
ANALOGUE OUTPUTS (RCA, variable level) - To connect to a preamplifier (or power amplifier when internal volume control is enabled) with unbalanced (RCA) analogue inputs."

...it seems to be pretty clear that Tendaberry is right.

[Matteo]

Linn reply:

"From the integration of Exakt, the analogue volume control and "Direct" function were removed (The "Direct" function is now replaced with "Minimal"). In all products the analogue sources are digitised for Space Optimisation, digital volume and Songcasting. Therefore the analogue sources for the Akurate DSM, such as phono, are digitised and then converted to analogue for the analogue outputs".

What is "minimal"?

M.

[matthias]

What is "minimal"?

In my understanding combined ADC/DAC only without further processing like DVC.

[Matteo]

What is "minimal"?

In my understanding combined ADC/DAC only without further processing like DVC.

Uhm

Linn testually said that "From the integration of Exakt, the analogue volume control and "Direct" function were removed (...)".

And where is this "minimal" function in the Konfig menù?

M.

[matthias]

I am not familiar with ADSM3 but there must be a setting where you can enable or disable DVC.
DVC and other processing disabled is then "minimal".

[Matteo]

According again to Linn:

"The “Minimal” feature can be found in Konfig within “Sources” and relates to the analogue and digital connections of the DSM. You have understood correctly in that the digitization of sources cannot be bypassed and it only the Digital Volume Control that can be bypassed".

M.

[matthias]

According again to Linn:
"The “Minimal” feature can be found in Konfig within “Sources” and relates to the analogue and digital connections of the DSM. You have understood correctly in that the digitization of sources cannot be bypassed and it only the Digital Volume Control that can be bypassed".

That exactly was my assumption, therefore they say "minimal" and not "direct".

[Matteo]

No

With the extinct direct function you could use the ADC with analogue inputs;

Now the ADC was removed and you couldn’t

M

[Matteo]

B4CD30FA-F99D-4373-8BE9-761C1C0A8DC7.jpeg

[Matteo]

A1369BBC-8D6E-4181-B56D-AFE4CF57B3DA.jpeg

I also do not know what is the input level …