Speaker placement - Artikulats (Klimax ?)

[Urs]

Dear colleagues,

some time ago, there was a thread - or a few posts - concerning speaker placement, using tune-Dem.
if I recall correctly, it was about Artikulats (or Klimax) speakers, and I thought it was in THIS forum, but it could also have been in the "other" LINN forum.

does anyone recalls this - and could post the Link :?:

Thanks

Urs

[zeedje]

Have a look in the tunedem tread a bit lower down

/Z

[Urs]

Colleagues,

(and thanks to Anthony & Zeedje)

This is the thread I was looking for

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=

Here my experience:

(I first had the original 350A as Artikulates, now they are up-graded to KLIMAX)
When I first heard 350A - (Artikulates at that time), the speakers were positioned freestanding, and I was intrigued by the music - interestingly, this was similar at 2 different dealers locations, in different rooms.
(I like to add, that most bigger speaker from other brands were typically also placed free standing , with up to 1 meter or more away from side & backwalls, so for me this was OK)

After I got mine, I placed them also away from the back-wall, as this seemed to be the "rule" .
(I should add, that I have a distinct bass-hump, and the wisdom of the day was: DON't move them near the back-wall , as this would increase the bass --- this was later found to be wrong ! )

Later, I visited my dealer, and he had re-positioned his 350A in his room nearer to the back-wall - I was surprised by the improved musicality and the much tighter bass (mind you, the 350A ARE already excellent... )
---Well, he had received some tune-dem training by LINN in the meantime !!
So my dealer came to my place and he and his wife did the tune-dem - - , and we moved them right back....and all aspects of music are better...including a better bass !!
(for the record: they are now 275 mm from the back measured apex to wall. - BTW - This confirms nicely with other reports, which ranged from 250 to 300 mm.)

OK - all is fine---but I still have this question: Why are so many other speakers/brands placed free standing ?
Is the "close-to-the-back" a British speciality ( I know, that NAIM designed their speaker specifically for this purpose)
...or ?---are all the others wrong, because they never tried alternatives ??


Regards

Urs

[Music Lover]

Each developer has different criteria’s.
Some are designed to be far away from walls, others are not. Some are designed to be in a corner. Some are even designed to be in your ear :mrgreen:

btw, I consider 350 STILL being a free standing speaker. (not a word I normally use describing it but understand it)
Isobarik/Sara/Kan were designed to be close to the back wall. Had mine a few cm from the back wall (as close as possible still keeping the speaker cables from touching the wall)
You need a stable wall to get the best out from them.
Not sure why Linn changed the philosophy designing speakers - anyone?

[lejonklou]

Why are so many other speakers/brands placed free standing ?

Not sure why Linn changed the philosophy designing speakers - anyone?

I would say you run into less problems if you design a speaker to be placed a bit away from the wall, because a smaller part of the low end spectrum will depend on the interaction with the rear wall.

But I'm not designing loudspeakers (yet ), so I suspect some people would have arguments against that.

[Music Lover]

I would say you run into less problems if you design a speaker to be placed a bit away from the wall, because a smaller part of the low end spectrum will depend on the interaction with the rear wall.

Same goes with all frequencies Fredrik.
On the other hand you have more control over the room interaction as the distance is more or less defined.

[ThomasOK]

Each developer has different criteria’s.
Some are designed to be far away from walls, others are not. Some are designed to be in a corner. Some are even designed to be in your ear :mrgreen:

btw, I consider 350 STILL being a free standing speaker. (not a word I normally use describing it but understand it)
Isobarik/Sara/Kan were designed to be close to the back wall. Had mine a few cm from the back wall (as close as possible still keeping the speaker cables from touching the wall)
You need a stable wall to get the best out from them.
Not sure why Linn changed the philosophy designing speakers - anyone?

I think that Linn's loudspeaker design philosophy changes with the head of the speaker design department. Over the years there have been more changes in design direction in Linn speakers than I have seen in other departments. The current speakers all work off the design of the Komri and all tend to sound best at least about 12" or 300mm away from the back wall. They all also use some variation of the 4K array pioneered in the Komri. So obviously this design philosophy includes the notion of very extended high frequencies, hence the supertweeters, reduction of high frequency reflections and uses a more "freestanding" positioning.

Before the Komri the vast majority of Linn speakers preferred a close wall placement within at least 7" to 9" and very close for the original Isobarik, SARA and Kan as you mention. You can see the other designers influences in the other speaker groupings: the Keltik, Kaber, Keilidh, Tukan, Keosa series, the AV5140/Espek, AV5120/Espek, Ninka, Katan, Trikan series and the not particularly well received Nexus, Helix, Index series.

My own experience has found the best sound for the 350As at 16.5" or 420mm from the back wall in a couple of situations but this was with the Artikulats. I haven't set up a pair of the Klimaxes yet and I expect the positioning would be different.

I am not a speaker designer but I have found that the close placement designers (current Rega speakers fit into this group) do talk about the advantage of knowing the effect of the expected reflections. I also notice that the imaging brigade is particularly fond of placements well out into the room. As with all else only the Tune will tell.

[Urs]

Dear Colleagues,

Couldn't resist the temptation to "fiddle" a bit more with my speaker position...with neagative results, i admit !!
(I tried a position closer to the side-wall - but due to space restrictions I'm VERY limited, so it was too close)

OK - all back again to were my dealer left it:
And now the surprise: When I powered up the system, the Tuner was selected --and even the evening News were sounding more natural and clear than before.
...and there couldn't be a more tune-LESS sound than the news.... :mrgreen:

However, it confirmed to me, that the human voice is such an excellent source for evaluating a music system.

Urs

PS: needless to say that MUSIC is alive, tunefull and "just right" as well

[lejonklou]

I think that Linn's loudspeaker design philosophy changes with the head of the speaker design department. Over the years there have been more changes in design direction in Linn speakers than I have seen in other departments.

Yes, Linn's speaker line has certainly seen some drastic changes over the years.

Your grouping of the speakers is, however, not entirely correct:
Keltik, Kaber, Nexus, Helix, Index2 was one series (by that Australian guy), which started with the release of the Nexus. And whether it was well received or not is debateable - I have heard that up to that point, Nexus was their most successful speaker (?).

Keilidh, Tukan, Keosa and Kan III came later, developed by other guys. Then followed the more recent "angled enclosures" series.

As with all else only the Tune will tell.

Agreed! :D

[ThomasOK]

Interesting, I was selling Macintosh computers during the Nexus through Keosa series of speakers so I was unaware of the exact groupings.

It turns out that the Australian guy, Rod Crawford, has his own loudspeaker company in Australia called Legend Acoustics that has been around for a while. Interestingly, almost all his models have names with a "K" in them. I don't believe they sell outside of Australia. Maybe due to their "Fast, open Australian sound" they aren't to be used elsewhere.

[Azazello]

I don't believe they sell outside of Australia.

I'm pretty sure I have listened to a pair of Legend speakers here in Stockholm.

EDIT: Sorry, for some reason I mixed up Legend and Totem. :oops: