Karousel

[Tony Tune-age]

I'm quite sure new torques and sockets to apply them will be needed - I see a lot more work ahead!

Since the Karousel is designed by Linn, shouldn't they already have at least some idea of what the torque values are? How could they properly test the Karousel, without applying the correct torque values?

[ThomasOK]

I'm quite sure new torques and sockets to apply them will be needed - I see a lot more work ahead!

Since the Karousel is designed by Linn, shouldn't they already have at least some idea of what the torque values are? How could they properly test the Karousel, without applying the correct torque values?

I expect Linn will have some torque values. Whether they will publish them is another matter as they currently only publish them for the Kandid and the motor stud on the top plate, at least from what I've seen of LP12 torques. Linn also publish torque ranges, rather than a precise torque setting, which I find necessary for the most musical perfromance. But I would be glad for Linn torque specs as a starting point.

[Tony Tune-age]

I'm quite sure new torques and sockets to apply them will be needed - I see a lot more work ahead!

Since the Karousel is designed by Linn, shouldn't they already have at least some idea of what the torque values are? How could they properly test the Karousel, without applying the correct torque values?

I expect Linn will have some torque values. Whether they will publish them is another matter as they currently only publish them for the Kandid and the motor stud on the top plate, at least from what I've seen of LP12 torques. Linn also publish torque ranges, rather than a precise torque setting, which I find necessary for the most musical perfromance. But I would be glad for Linn torque specs as a starting point.

I didn't realize Linn was so protective of their exact torque values, but they should at least provide them to people like you.

Cheers

[Defender]

This should make it clearer:

yes that made it clear and actually you answered the other question which I had in my mind too as I was thinking of the Keel. I think an advantage of the raised lands with the Keel is that you achieve a much better connection on a material/atomic level compared to the surface pressure the Keel clones do because its easier to produce.
I expect those pits are higher than the lands of the Keel so you place the pits besides the lands and actually achieve the same.

However I have seen at least one Keel where the heads of the screws which hold the Circus scratched the surface of the Keel so I am a little afraid of the surface connection on the top side.

All in all it looks very well thought through - is installment in the price or does it come on top?

[markiteight]

What is the purpose of the bottom threaded piece?

[donuk]

Sound Organisation of York are holding a "comparison" event on Saturday 28th March. Contact them for more details...

And you can get one "free" as part of a deal......

https://soundorg.co.uk/news/linn-lp12-k ... -promotion

Donuk beautiful downtown York

[matthias]

I expect those pits are higher than the lands of the Keel so you place the pits besides the lands and actually achieve the same.

AFAIK, the pits of the Karousel go into the holes of the sub chassis otherwise the aluminium sub chassis would get distorted by the much harder stainless steel pits of the bearing.

Matt

[Freddy]

Stainless steel and aluminium is actually not a good combination due to galvanic corrosion so the coating on the Keel should not be scratched.

[Defender]

What is the purpose of the bottom threaded piece?

that is the bearing mirror which as well has the new coating for lower friction - that is in my opinion the only part where materials of the inner platter pin touch the bearing mirror
The tube which makes sure there is no side movements (staggering) of the inner platter should always have an oil film so no direct touch of materials.

What you see is that you can change it so you dont have to change the complete bearing (but only the mirror) ... with circus you have to change the complete bearing if something is going down south

I expect that you should take care even more because of the new coating to not let the inner platter sink into the bearing by his own weight. DLC coatings are very hard but hard coatings are usually also brittle.

[matthias]

More information from the press release:

That vital union between the platter, spindle, bearing and sub-chassis is now the strongest we’ve ever achieved.

Even with the Karousel the union between bearing and sub chassis is a weak spot because the sub chassis is only 1,5mm thick.

Matt

[Defender]

I expect those pits are higher than the lands of the Keel so you place the pits besides the lands and actually achieve the same.

AFAIK, the pits of the Karousel go into the holes of the sub chassis otherwise the aluminium sub chassis would get distorted by the much harder stainless steel pits of the bearing.

Matt

you might be right but if that is the case the lands of the Keel would provide even less surface to cope with the pressure

[matthias]

you might be right but if that is the case the lands of the Keel would provide even less surface to cope with the pressure

Yes, the interface of the Keel is certainly superior to that of the Kore or Majik.

Matt

[tokenbrit]

I didn't realize Linn was so protective of their exact torque values, but they should at least provide them to people like you.

Cheers

Interesting interpretation that Linn are somehow being protective... I'm curious as to whether they've ever tested & admitted to an exact torque value for their fasteners, as opposed to a range. Even if they did publish an exact value, how could they know that the value could be exactly applied unless all dealers had torque drivers that were regularly calibrated against Linn HQ's reference? But maybe it is them being protektive, or kovert, and it is a konspiracy after all :)

Pst, wanna know the values? Download this file: klandestine.pdf ;)

[ThomasOK]

I didn't realize Linn was so protective of their exact torque values, but they should at least provide them to people like you.

Cheers

Interesting interpretation that Linn are somehow being protective... I'm curious as to whether they've ever tested & admitted to an exact torque value for their fasteners, as opposed to a range. Even if they did publish an exact value, how could they know that the value could be exactly applied unless all dealers had torque drivers that were regularly calibrated against Linn HQ's reference? But maybe it is them being protektive, or kovert, and it is a konspiracy after all :)

Pst, wanna know the values? Download this file: klandestine.pdf ;)

A friend of mine in the UK was on a factory tour a couple of years ago. He noticed that the LP12 build stations had torque screwdrivers on them, on each one was a CAL 36/4. He asked one of the people who builds the LP12s what they used the torque screwdrivers for and was told: "There is a precise tightness for every fastener on an LP12." He then asked if that even applied to ones that go into wood. The answer; "Even the screws that hold on the hinge plates have a precise tightness." He asked if he could get a copy of the list of torques and was informed they don't give that out. Of course, he is a customer and not a dealer. He called me immediately to tell me about this as I taught him how to use a torque driver and sent torques to him for his LP12 as his dealer doesn't use them. And, yes, there is the difficulty of slight variances in the drivers which is why I always caution to determine exact values by listening with the driver you have and not just rely on torques I send out.

I honestly don't know if they would give that list out to dealers as I have never asked. From other reports Linn wasn't using that system 10 years ago. I have been using it for 15 years since I first thought of and developed it...

Word is that the cap needs to be tightened to 5Nm so I apparently need a new driver along with the appropriate socket, which might be a custom affair.

Covering a couple more things, the studs on top of the bearing housing properly locate it in the holes in the subchassis while the cap is tightened down on it. The bottom is a holder for the thrust plate which is no longer a mirror as the coating makes it black. The thrust plate is smaller and mounted to a substantial stainless steel cap, both of which are claimed to cause it to bend less from the pressure of the spindle and platters. Here is another photo that shows the thrust plate.



And shame on you tokenbrit for second hand rickrolling the forum members.

[ThomasOK]

Since I have all these lovely photos, here is another one:



Here you can see that they are using what appears to be the same liner material with the same three holes between it and the housing to let air escape and the oil move through the bearing. These are now machined to more precise tolerances. As these liners have been machined in place, at least since Cirkus if not from the beginning, my guess is that this is made much easier by having both ends of the housing open for the machining instead of having the thrust plate there to worry about.

I should also add an update that Linn will ship demos to dealers to arrive March 23rd. The supply is somewhat constrained so stock units will follow in shipments the end of March and beginning of April. I ordered a number of them which are all supposed to be here by the second week of April and have already sold 9 even though I only called two of those customers. Looks like I know what I'll be doing for the next couple of months! 3/7 - make that 12 sold and I still haven't had time to start calling many people.

[John]

Wonder how the bearing will affect the hierarchy when considering upgrading. I also wondering if the suspension parts are any different to what’s in my current deck whose parts are several years old.

[Tony Tune-age]

I didn't realize Linn was so protective of their exact torque values, but they should at least provide them to people like you.

Interesting interpretation that Linn are somehow being protective... I'm curious as to whether they've ever tested & admitted to an exact torque value for their fasteners, as opposed to a range. Even if they did publish an exact value, how could they know that the value could be exactly applied unless all dealers had torque drivers that were regularly calibrated against Linn HQ's reference? But maybe it is them being protektive, or kovert, and it is a konspiracy after all :)

Pst, wanna know the values? Download this file: klandestine.pdf ;)

So, are you insulting me tokenbrit? Did I say something wrong, or stupid?

[beck]

I have never experienced tokenbrit insulting anyone and do not read it into the above text at all. Rest assure Tony Tune-age that is not the case here.

I read it as an examination of possibilities into what Linn might be thinking.....

And the bad jokes are also a trademark of his. :-)

[tokenbrit]

Of course not, Tony. Beck's reply said it better than I could... Thanks beck (I think ;)

[Diogenes]

The bottom screw on piece is likely too big for the hole in Valhalla, which means it will violate the safety distance.

This is a concern. Many older controllers may be unusable.

Anyone know the maximum diameter of the new bearing?

[Tony Tune-age]

Of course not, Tony. Beck's reply said it better than I could... Thanks beck (I think ;)

Good evening tokenbrit. I was totally clueless about "rickrolling" and didn't know what to think, until a couple of people explained it me. And that's why I asked the questions. But now I understand, thanks for clarifying.

And thanks for the explanation Beck.

Cheers

[Catweazle]

The bottom screw on piece is likely too big for the hole in Valhalla, which means it will violate the safety distance.

Thinking positive (as a Lingo2 owner): this might create a new aftermarket for pre-owned Lingos, and help upgrading to Radikal?

[matthias]

Wonder how the bearing will affect the hierarchy when considering upgrading.

I am sure Karousel in a Majik sub chassis will outperform Cirkus in a Keel.

Matt

[V.A.MKD]

Wonder how the bearing will affect the hierarchy when considering upgrading.

I am sure Karousel in a Majik sub chassis will outperform Cirkus in a Keel.

Matt

Yes Mattias, or second option ... Karousel - Tonearm - Cartridge ...

[Linntek]

Of course not, Tony. Beck's reply said it better than I could... Thanks beck (I think ;)

Good evening tokenbrit. I was totally clueless about "rickrolling" and didn't know what to think, until a couple of people explained it me. And that's why I asked the questions. But now I understand, thanks for clarifying.

And thanks for the explanation Beck.

Cheers

Hi Tony
Nothing wrong being rickrolled. Could happen to anyone.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ctplrcjx761gb ... 6.mov?dl=0