I’ve just come across this article which suggests that amplifier “musicality” isn’t a new idea. It probably dates back to the early days of amplifier design, and certainly before the 2nd World War!
Enjoy!
http://www.keith-snook.info/wireless-wo ... ortion.pdf
Musical Unpleasantness
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Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Thank you for the link!
On the contrary, I would claim that "musicality" and especially evaluation by ear was far more important in the early days. As our understanding of circuit design deepened, distortion became better defined and amplifiers measured better and better, lots of engineers started to think that it's all a numbers game and our idea of musicality is nothing but a subjectively pleasant amount of distortion. Which is completely wrong as far as I'm concerned.
Linn and a few other enthusiast companies fought in the 1980's and 90's to put musicality back on the map, in opposition to the big Asian brands and the increasingly technically oriented audio press. But today, the positivist and reductionist view of human life is on the rise like never before. Even Linn are now talking numbers like everyone else (to explain why digital volume control and class D are supposedly better their analogue alternatives).
The article you linked to, Spannko, must be a really early one pointing towards the importance of intermodulation distortion. It later became the holy grail for some engineers, but when the numbers started approaching zero and their amp still didn't outperform everything else, the IM figure was put in the "assorted rather important parameters" cupboard.
On the contrary, I would claim that "musicality" and especially evaluation by ear was far more important in the early days. As our understanding of circuit design deepened, distortion became better defined and amplifiers measured better and better, lots of engineers started to think that it's all a numbers game and our idea of musicality is nothing but a subjectively pleasant amount of distortion. Which is completely wrong as far as I'm concerned.
Linn and a few other enthusiast companies fought in the 1980's and 90's to put musicality back on the map, in opposition to the big Asian brands and the increasingly technically oriented audio press. But today, the positivist and reductionist view of human life is on the rise like never before. Even Linn are now talking numbers like everyone else (to explain why digital volume control and class D are supposedly better their analogue alternatives).
The article you linked to, Spannko, must be a really early one pointing towards the importance of intermodulation distortion. It later became the holy grail for some engineers, but when the numbers started approaching zero and their amp still didn't outperform everything else, the IM figure was put in the "assorted rather important parameters" cupboard.
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Re: Musical Unpleasantness
That makes sense, I was wondering how subjective evaluation lost it’s place in the design process!lejonklou wrote:Thank you for the link!
On the contrary, I would claim that "musicality" and especially evaluation by ear was far more important in the early days. As our understanding of circuit design deepened, distortion became better defined and amplifiers measured better and better, lots of engineers started to think that it's all a numbers game and our idea of musicality is nothing but a subjectively pleasant amount of distortion. Which is completely wrong as far as I'm concerned.
Linn and a few other enthusiast companies fought in the 1980's and 90's to put musicality back on the map, in opposition to the big Asian brands and the increasingly technically oriented audio press. But today, the positivist and reductionist view of human life is on the rise like never before. Even Linn are now talking numbers like everyone else (to explain why digital volume control and class D are supposedly better their analogue alternatives).
The article you linked to, Spannko, must be a really early one pointing towards the importance of intermodulation distortion. It later became the holy grail for some engineers, but when the numbers started approaching zero and their amp still didn't outperform everything else, the IM figure was put in the "assorted rather important parameters" cupboard.
Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Is there a difference between musicality in hifi and musicality in someone playing a musical instrument.
I remember reading about Miles Davis recording sketches of Spain and bringing in classical musicians, as soon as they started rehearsal he stopped them and said 'what are you doing!!?? You're playing the notes, don't play the notes play the music!!
My little girl's piano and french horn playing has been described on two different occasions as soooooo musical by different teachers but not sure what they mean.
Would you be able to tell if someone was a very musical player?
I remember reading about Miles Davis recording sketches of Spain and bringing in classical musicians, as soon as they started rehearsal he stopped them and said 'what are you doing!!?? You're playing the notes, don't play the notes play the music!!
My little girl's piano and french horn playing has been described on two different occasions as soooooo musical by different teachers but not sure what they mean.
Would you be able to tell if someone was a very musical player?
I know that tune
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Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Yes, from the first note.Lego wrote:Would you be able to tell if someone was a very musical player?
Please compare Ritchie Blackmore and Yngwie Malmsteen
One play music, the other is more focused on speed and technical brilliance.
NopeLego wrote:Is there a difference between musicality in hifi and musicality in someone playing a musical instrument.
It's all about musical understanding!
Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Please elaborate on the Blackmore Yngwie example. Implying Yngwie is not focused on playing music.. Well admittedly Blackmore has more emphasis on the ”emotional” part (but he would probably not even be able to manage many of the Yngwie parts - but if he could, I think the room for ”music” (whatever you put in that word in this case) would be more limited. But that Malmsteen is not playing music.. They have their own message, and deliver it in their own way and VERY different playing style and technique but one being music and the other not..?
Sure, it is a common example/stereotype that often is repeated in various contexts, but one being music and the other being? Well what?
Blackmore masters many styles much better and others not as well.
Sure, it is a common example/stereotype that often is repeated in various contexts, but one being music and the other being? Well what?
Blackmore masters many styles much better and others not as well.
Re: Musical Unpleasantness
My daughter since she was 5 was described by her teacher as having the touch.I'm guessing that's what music lover is referring to.
I know that tune
Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Would you be able to tell without comparingMusic Lover wrote:Yes, from the first note.Lego wrote:Would you be able to tell if someone was a very musical player?
Please compare Ritchie Blackmore and Yngwie Malmsteen
One play music, the other is more focused on speed and technical brilliance.
NopeLego wrote:Is there a difference between musicality in hifi and musicality in someone playing a musical instrument.
I know that tune
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Re: Musical Unpleasantness
That's not what I wrote.cortina wrote:Please elaborate on the Blackmore Yngwie example. Implying Yngwie is not focused on playing music..
"the other is more focused on speed and technical brilliance"
Note the word "more".
And Lego, not sure I'm able to tell without comparing. Give it a try.
Blackmore is not fast nor extraordinary technical but he play the correct notes at correct time, creating something that almost no other can reproduce. Pick any classic Purple tune and listen.
You going to find some super simple riffs that is brilliant in their simplicity.
It seems easy to play his tunes - but I haven't heard anybody yet been able to reproduce his magical flow.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: Musical Unpleasantness
Up until about the age of 14, I played piano and achieved Grade 5. I could therefore play the notes to a reasonably good standard. But I never really felt I found a way to play the music with the emotion of the artists I was listening to. It was frustrating.
So I think the answer is yes, it is possible to play the notes in a technically correct fashion, but not achieve the music.
So I think the answer is yes, it is possible to play the notes in a technically correct fashion, but not achieve the music.
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