Hi folks,
I am led to believe that over time, hi-fi products deteriorate. If this is so, does anyone here tend to only run products up to a certain number of years old and then upgrade as a matter of course? Also, when buying second hand, is it worth buying products under a certain age or is the deterioration so small that it's not worth worrying about?
Thanks, Charlie1
Life span of hi-fi products
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Music Lover
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Re: Life span of hi-fi products
Yes, nothing to worry about, given that you massage the connectors, tighten the screws etc keeping the unit in good shape..Charlie1 wrote: or is the deterioration so small that it's not worth worrying about?
It's all about musical understanding!
This is one of those questions for which there is not a universal answer. It depends a lot on the type of product that you are talking about and also of the design and manufacture of the product.
Although my main music system uses pretty up-to-date components, my home theater comprises a pair of 20 year old Isobarik DMS and similar aged pair of SARAs driven by amps that are also 15 to 20 years old - an LK280 Spark and an LK2-75 respectively. They all work wonderfully although I did have to repair a bad channel in the LK2-75 that took a few tries to get sorted.
It is widely known that Naim recommends having amps like the legendary 250 re-capped and refurbished after they have been in use for a couple of decades but I've never heard the same about Linn amps. And there are 40 and 50 year old tube amps and preamps still chugging along quite nicely with an occasional tube replacement.
In my experience, quality speakers like Linn Isobarik, SARA and Kan will soldier on indefinitely as will quality speakers with rubber surrounds from many others like Spendor (although BC1s need the woofers turned once in a while), various LS3/5a speakers and numerous others. On the other hand, speakers with foam surrounds from the 70s and 80s will generally have their cones hanging by a thread by now as the foam will have disintegrated. This includes speakers like Advents, Dahlquist DQ10s, numerous Bose speakers and many, many others. Foam surrounds just don't hold up well over time although you can get most of them re-foamed and they'll be good for another 20ish years. I have also seen rubber surrounds on Dahlquist DQ10 midranges that are badly cracked and occasionally also in other bass and midrange drivers but I have seen many more intact - my best guess is that those that have been bad are mostly due to improper storage in a garage or attic where things get too hot.
CD players are another place where I wouldn't recommend buying most of the older product out there. There are two related reasons for this. First, lasers do wear out over time. It is not unusual for the laser diode that reads the disc to weaken to the point of unusability in 7 to 12 years - usually closer to the latter. Second, the parts needed to repair CD players are often very specific and tend to become unavailable over time. This is why Linn no longer service Karik and Mimik CD players, a shortage of parts to do the repairs and the inability to get more parts built. This afflicts most brands as Naim have several models they can no longer service as well. It also effects larger manufacturers as some NAD models are hard to service and I even dealt with one manufacturer who was unable to repair two different CD Recorders that were both still under warranty!
Electronics (preamps, power amps, integrated amps and tuners) are usually much safer as long as they were well built in the first place. Linn, Naim, vintage Marantz and McIntosh and many other products (I wouldn't worry about early Creek either, for example) all tend to just keep on working for the most part. That doesn't mean there are never any failures, just that they are few and can generally still be repaired (although it is best t check with a dealer to find out which products can still be repaired). More mass-market products don't generally hold up as well.
I would be really careful when it comes to AV receivers. Even with several of the brands I enjoy the sound of the repair rates are some of the highest for any type of component. AV receivers are very complex pieces with lots to go wrong and I see a higher percentage of them coming in for service than any other type of component. In general I would stay away from most used AV receivers, especially those over about 5 years old. The exception to this rule is Arcam who not only make the best sounding AV units I have heard but also the most reliable. I would say that the repair rate for Arcam AV receivers is really about the same as for their CD players - very low.
Finally, turntables you generally don't have to worry about - especially if you buy a Linn (which is what you should buy) or a Rega (if your budget is constrained). Turntables from both companies will run well for decades and both have replacement parts available for turntables of almost any age. The exception here is the Linn Axis for which some parts are no longer available. But the LP12 and Rega Planar 3s and 2s can all be repaired and even updated to higher levels of performance. Other brands of turntables will also generally function well if they haven't been mishandled or improperly stored, but, really, why bother. Used Rega and Linn turntables should be affordable by just about anybody looking for good music reproduction.
Although my main music system uses pretty up-to-date components, my home theater comprises a pair of 20 year old Isobarik DMS and similar aged pair of SARAs driven by amps that are also 15 to 20 years old - an LK280 Spark and an LK2-75 respectively. They all work wonderfully although I did have to repair a bad channel in the LK2-75 that took a few tries to get sorted.
It is widely known that Naim recommends having amps like the legendary 250 re-capped and refurbished after they have been in use for a couple of decades but I've never heard the same about Linn amps. And there are 40 and 50 year old tube amps and preamps still chugging along quite nicely with an occasional tube replacement.
In my experience, quality speakers like Linn Isobarik, SARA and Kan will soldier on indefinitely as will quality speakers with rubber surrounds from many others like Spendor (although BC1s need the woofers turned once in a while), various LS3/5a speakers and numerous others. On the other hand, speakers with foam surrounds from the 70s and 80s will generally have their cones hanging by a thread by now as the foam will have disintegrated. This includes speakers like Advents, Dahlquist DQ10s, numerous Bose speakers and many, many others. Foam surrounds just don't hold up well over time although you can get most of them re-foamed and they'll be good for another 20ish years. I have also seen rubber surrounds on Dahlquist DQ10 midranges that are badly cracked and occasionally also in other bass and midrange drivers but I have seen many more intact - my best guess is that those that have been bad are mostly due to improper storage in a garage or attic where things get too hot.
CD players are another place where I wouldn't recommend buying most of the older product out there. There are two related reasons for this. First, lasers do wear out over time. It is not unusual for the laser diode that reads the disc to weaken to the point of unusability in 7 to 12 years - usually closer to the latter. Second, the parts needed to repair CD players are often very specific and tend to become unavailable over time. This is why Linn no longer service Karik and Mimik CD players, a shortage of parts to do the repairs and the inability to get more parts built. This afflicts most brands as Naim have several models they can no longer service as well. It also effects larger manufacturers as some NAD models are hard to service and I even dealt with one manufacturer who was unable to repair two different CD Recorders that were both still under warranty!
Electronics (preamps, power amps, integrated amps and tuners) are usually much safer as long as they were well built in the first place. Linn, Naim, vintage Marantz and McIntosh and many other products (I wouldn't worry about early Creek either, for example) all tend to just keep on working for the most part. That doesn't mean there are never any failures, just that they are few and can generally still be repaired (although it is best t check with a dealer to find out which products can still be repaired). More mass-market products don't generally hold up as well.
I would be really careful when it comes to AV receivers. Even with several of the brands I enjoy the sound of the repair rates are some of the highest for any type of component. AV receivers are very complex pieces with lots to go wrong and I see a higher percentage of them coming in for service than any other type of component. In general I would stay away from most used AV receivers, especially those over about 5 years old. The exception to this rule is Arcam who not only make the best sounding AV units I have heard but also the most reliable. I would say that the repair rate for Arcam AV receivers is really about the same as for their CD players - very low.
Finally, turntables you generally don't have to worry about - especially if you buy a Linn (which is what you should buy) or a Rega (if your budget is constrained). Turntables from both companies will run well for decades and both have replacement parts available for turntables of almost any age. The exception here is the Linn Axis for which some parts are no longer available. But the LP12 and Rega Planar 3s and 2s can all be repaired and even updated to higher levels of performance. Other brands of turntables will also generally function well if they haven't been mishandled or improperly stored, but, really, why bother. Used Rega and Linn turntables should be affordable by just about anybody looking for good music reproduction.
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Moomintroll
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Interesting question Leo. Does it have a Brilliant switchmode? I only ask because I had a Numerik which was left switched on for about 12 years, only switched off during long holidays/storms, and had no problems with it. When I sold it, the new owner only switched it on when needed and within 2 days, complained that it sometimes failed to switch on. I swapped PSU with my Kairn and it was fine.Lego wrote:Quick question;will I get more life out of my Kremlin if I leave it on, or switch it off and on everyday?
Many thanks
Leo
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Music Lover
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My best guess is that you will get more life out of your Kremlin by leaving it turned on. Electronic components, whether Hi-Fi or computers, go through the most stress when the power is turned on as all the parts go from inactive to fully active in a few seconds. This power surge is what often kills components, hence why so many pieces die when switched on.
I leave all my hi-fi equipment on except when there is a lightning storm or when I'm away on vacation. My AV system, which I only use between a couple times a week and once each couple weeks, I turn on as needed just to save the electricity. Since that system uses an LK280/Spark and an LK2-75 the electricity savings are not insignificant! With most modern equipment the power draw when not being used is minimal as they tend to have standby modes that only use a little power. I also find the equipment takes a while after turn on to warm up and sound its best.
I leave all my hi-fi equipment on except when there is a lightning storm or when I'm away on vacation. My AV system, which I only use between a couple times a week and once each couple weeks, I turn on as needed just to save the electricity. Since that system uses an LK280/Spark and an LK2-75 the electricity savings are not insignificant! With most modern equipment the power draw when not being used is minimal as they tend to have standby modes that only use a little power. I also find the equipment takes a while after turn on to warm up and sound its best.
I forgot to add - many thanks for your first post Thomas.
Hmmm. There isn't very much clearance between shelves leaving only an inch between the amp and the shelf above, so no doubt, that doesn't help. It's a pain because the fan kicks in quite often. I suppose I could put it on a separate table for a while and see if it cools down to the degree you suggest.Music Lover wrote:Anyone else experienced this with chakra amps?
My C4200s are deadly cool, despite deadbanging volume levels for hours.
Regarding lightning storms, it depends a bit on where you live. Most of the lightning struck stuff I have seen has been from the country. A few have been from a city, so it appears that a strike at a power station or similar can sometimes cause massive spikes on the net.
Regarding Chakra amps, I have noticed that some amps, especially the 6100's, run quite hot. Others are cool and the fans never kick in. I have not looked any further into this, but I really wonder if different species differ in this aspect - or if it's just a question of model and positioning (air circulation).
Anyone else with a 6100? I know at least 4 of those that run quite hot and on standby they are still warm.
I use 4200 and they are moderately warm while playing, not very warm when on standby.
Regarding Chakra amps, I have noticed that some amps, especially the 6100's, run quite hot. Others are cool and the fans never kick in. I have not looked any further into this, but I really wonder if different species differ in this aspect - or if it's just a question of model and positioning (air circulation).
Anyone else with a 6100? I know at least 4 of those that run quite hot and on standby they are still warm.
I use 4200 and they are moderately warm while playing, not very warm when on standby.