Playground for practical listening exercises

[beck]

EoM off just gives a sense off a little less agitated and a little more calm and clear sound as I hear it.

[Charlie1]

Thanks again for your feedback on this - I marvel at your and other members' abilities to notice differences in some of these clips.

Just been playing some background jazz with units switched off. It does seem to have a bit more joie de vivre and a sense that a slight irritant has been removed.

[lejonklou]

I have just listened to the first three clips. These are my impressions:

Ethernet-over-Mains OFF is much better than on. Big difference. I find that when it's on, things tighten up, in a stiff way. When off, there's a relaxed and intelligent flow in the music.

Fused Spur with EoM OFF I find worse than Ring Main EoM OFF. Sounds more Exakt (sic), looses the flow that makes it fun.

As always: I could be wrong. This method is incredibly versatile but not fully reliable. Best position for evaluation is often in the room next to the one where the system is.

[u252agz]

I have just listened to the first three clips. These are my impressions:

Ethernet-over-Mains OFF is much better than on.

Fused Spur with EoM OFF I find worse than Ring Main EoM OFF.

I agree - i prefer Ring main and Ethernett- over- Mains OFF.

My wife could hear this over the ipad speaker as she was reading and, although clearly distracted, had the same preferences.

Re best position for evaluating a system- i find mine really quite enjoyable from the adjacent room where I have my favourite reading chair. The hi Fi becomes less important and the musicality really comes through. Sagatun Monos really highlighted this aspect.

[beck]

Keeping Charlie1's comments in mind (not much difference) my take is that we have hit the limit of what we can hear and judge through these clips. The only meaningful difference I hear in these clips is a slight cleaning up, slightly more calm and deapening sound from the system. It reminds me of when I first discovered the importance of "earthing" my system. Again this is just my take.

One more thing: comparing main/EoM off with spur/EoM on I hear the sound deapening a little.

[Charlie1]

Fused Spur with EoM OFF I find worse than Ring Main EoM OFF.

I agree - i prefer Ring main and Ethernett- over- Mains OFF.

I've been playing an LP this afternoon that was played yesterday using the spur - can't recall if EoM units were off. Today I used the main ring and EoM units off. I enjoyed it more. I'm noticing a quality that I find hard to articulate. There's a 'rightness' to it. It's better able to convey subtly different sentiments. It has a deft hand like a skilled conductor that knows just the right degree of gesture to convey to the musicians. Hope that doesn't seem pompous but it's hard to know exactly what I'm trying to say.

EDIT: I'm now listening to a very famous and revered classical LP that I've struggled to truly enjoy before - Elgar Cello Concerto conducted by Sir John Barbirolli with Jacqueline Du Pre playing Cello. It's a lot better. I'm not feeling restless and wanting to play something else. I might even be enjoying it :) And I tried it again only a couple of weeks ago so it's not the KK and retuned speaker positioning that's made the difference.

[beck]

Your vote is the one that counts. "And so I went, again to The White House, again" to quate Forrest Gump. I was wrong, again! :-)
When it is not strictly about note relations I have to practice some more. The feeling you mention is the same I got when my journey to this forum started. I was listening to Sibelius Violin Concerto and not enjoying it anymore after I had made some changes to my system even though on the surface it sounded better. Went back to my old setup and I could feel where the violin player was going with his playing. That made all the difference.
That feeling is worth all the trouble we go through to get the best out of our systems.

[tokenbrit]

One more thing: comparing main/EoM off with spur/EoM on I hear the sound deapening a little.

To me: (after reading Fredrik's post)*
Main has a better flow - sounds more like music, & fun.
Spur sounds clearer ('deeper'?) but more hifi, less fun
* couldn't pick it up on first listen across all 4 clips. I found it subtle but clear once comparing pairs only; not trying to compare all four in one go...

Not surprised at Charlie1's preference for main ring (& EoM off) today :)

[ThomasOK]

Just had a chance to listen to all four of these. I only compared two at a time: first the EoM on and off with the Ring Main, then the EoM on and off with the Fused Spur, then (having found the music better with EoM off) the Fused Spur vs. the Ring Main. I definitely don't like what the EoM does to the music - it appears to muddle things and takes away the fun of the piece. It seems to me that the effect is greater on the Ring Main than on the Fused Spur but is of the same nature.

Musically I definitely prefer the Ring Main over the Fused Spur. The Fused Spur has a sharpness to it I find unnatural, I can see how that would be equated with a more "Hi-Fi" or Exakt type of sound and I don't find it enjoyable. The Ring Main just sounds more musical and flows better - it is the only one of the four I found myself bopping to.

[beck]

One more thing: comparing main/EoM off with spur/EoM on I hear the sound deapening a little.

To me: (after reading Fredrik's post)*
Main has a better flow - sounds more like music, & fun.
Spur sounds clearer ('deeper'?) but more hifi, less fun
* couldn't pick it up on first listen across all 4 clips. I found it subtle but clear once comparing pairs only; not trying to compare all four in one go...

Not surprised at Charlie1's preference for main ring (& EoM off) today :)

Great to hear from you Tokenbrit. I am getting tired of reading my own nonsense so you are more than welcome! :-)

[lejonklou]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

Love that Forrest Gump quote, beck! The two films I quote most often is 1) The Big Lebowski (which I've seen 25 times), and 2) Forrest Gump (only four times).

[beck]

I guess we are around the same age as I like those films too. The correct quate from Forrest Gump is:" So I went, again. And I met the President of The United States, again." And he is saying it like it is becoming a bit tiresome! So funny.

[Charlie1]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

There are various songs in my collection that I used to really enjoy but then went off and wondered what I'd liked about them so much in the first place. I found one or two that were back to how they used to be. This spurred me to dig out others and I'm pleased to say they are all back to their former enjoyment. Actually, I suspect they are a lot better.

I'd blamed some of these instances on LP quality. Until recently any wear or breakup of the sound really stood out and was annoying. Now it's like it has nearly all gone. The music itself kind of steamrollers through it. I have to make a conscious effort to pick out any break up due to damage but even then it has a different character altogether. It certainly doesn't matter or bother me any more.

I'm also wanting to listen at much higher volumes which is always a good sign in my experience. My poor old amp is whirring away quite a lot at the moment.

It's hard to convey the significance of all this. It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

[beck]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

It's hard to convey the significance of all this. It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

To me this is the one thing that we should never compromise on. Buying expensive systems and telling ourself that even if the system does not deliver exciting music it most be ok! Never in a million years.

[u252agz]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

It's hard to convey the significance of all this. It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

Good to hear the system has improved this much - looks like Beck is onto something here with this thread.

I find these quick A/B comparisons easier than in real life, where the delay causes problems with my musical memory.

One of these days I will have to learn to do these recordings and put them on the forum . I'm sure I would also benefit from optimisation of all these little things which seem to add up to a serious upgrade.

[lejonklou]

It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

What you're saying here applies not just to you, but to a lot of people. Many of the I-used-to-be-such-an-enthusiast-but-I've-grown-older 's I've spoken to have tried the latest and greatest digital systems. So it's certainly not due to the system! It's probably age. Yeah.

What details have you changed exactly, Charlie, to end up with this kind of improvement? Could you sum it up?

[Charlie1]

It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

What you're saying here applies not just to you, but to a lot of people. Many of the I-used-to-be-such-an-enthusiast-but-I've-grown-older 's I've spoken to have tried the latest and greatest digital systems. So it's certainly not due to the system! It's probably age. Yeah.

What details have you changed exactly, Charlie, to end up with this kind of improvement? Could you sum it up?

There were three key steps for me which seemed to remove a significant barrier against enjoying my music. This is the order in which they were changed:

• 1. Corrected my anti-skate setting (what a dick brain - I obviously don't have an early SE after all. And I should know better because several years ago I lost some interest in music when this wasn't set right. That time it was slightly off, this time it was miles off)
  2. Optimised the speaker positioning (distance to rear and side walls)
  3. Moved back to the ring main and turning off EoM units - I'm not sure which of these two is the more important. I suspect the EoM units are the main culprit but not had a chance to check this

The other improvements (in rough order of importance) each felt like an enhancement:

• 1. Moved LP12 onto Archidee table
  2. Swapped back the older Linn mains cables
  3. Removed 140 toe-in
  4. Improved the location of the Archidee table to rear wall
  5. Put Skeets under Archidee table
  6. Changed speaker drive torque from 1.0 to 1.1
  7. Removed 140 speaker grills

I made a couple of new clips of the system now. I was going to post them so that people to compare 'before' and 'after' but decided not to. I don't think the clips are much good for that. I don't think they convey the fundamental nature of the key steps forward, although perhaps I'm doing everyone a disservice since you're all better at hearing the differences in these clips than me, including Mrs u252agz :)

[Charlie1]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

It's hard to convey the significance of all this. It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

To me this is the one thing that we should never compromise on. Buying expensive systems and telling ourself that even if the system does not deliver exciting music it most be ok! Never in a million years.

Very true. You live and learn I guess, or try to.

[Charlie1]

Great to hear that you enjoy a record that you previously struggled with, Charlie!

It's hard to convey the significance of all this. It's amazing how I kidded myself that the system was OK and it must be me. I had thought that I'm getting old and music didn't do as much for me as it used to but now I know this isn't true at all. I can't thank everyone enough.

Good to hear the system has improved this much - looks like Beck is onto something here with this thread.

Thanks u252agz. Yes, Beck's thread has been a blessing.

[ThomasOK]

And now a more crude rendition of the same piece of music from my room. As this is a well know piece of music maybe for the fun of it we could call on as many as possible to record this piece. Rooms, systems, volume and so on are different but the music could be the same.
All in the spirit of sharing our passion for music and at the same time getting some hints at how different systems present this record.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ttay5zmivqdnr ... 6.MOV?dl=0

I would love to hear this music via the JBL speakers! So, ThomasOK get that camera rolling!:-)

This seemed like a neat idea so yesterday while I was cooking breakfast I put on Simon & Garfunkel "Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thyme" to warm the system up. Things were sounding so good that a track on side two literally brought a tear to my eye while still cooking in the other room. After breakfast I decided to make the video only to find that a certain Dire Straits record doesn't happen to exist in my collection! How frustrating!

[beck]

This tread has been a team effort from the start. And what a great team indeed! Lejonklou supported the idea as soon as I got the ball rolling. Charlie1 jumped at the oppotunity to get some opinions regarding his setup. ThomasOK chimed in with expert ears alongside Lejonklou and u252agz. What a great run until now. I just hope that other members will dare to take part in a tread that has made endless arguments about what is best superfluous.
We can now all see (hear) that even the smallest changes can make or break a systems ability to perform. So it has not become easier but we have a great new tool here that can help a lot.

Cheers to all who has taken part in this!

[Lego]

Must admit I was dismissive of these needle drop thingys until I sampled a few from this amazing session .Thought id share with you my setup burning in my daughters new cd player £15 on ebay which she'll be using with my old intek and kan2s ..Its a 20+ year old Sony playstation 1!?..do you think its tuneful?..used youtube for speed not an iphone so a bit blurry,sorry for abrupt ending
Earplugs only please
https://youtu.be/9Z9DL-R8YCk

[Charlie1]

Hi Leo, it says the video is private even when logged into YouTube.

[Lego]

Hi Leo, it says the video is private even when logged into YouTube.

Hmm thanks Charlie I picked option that you can access video via link only

Try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z9DL-R8YCk

[Charlie1]

Certainly sounds good to me Leo. I should get more KJ music - I enjoyed that. Nice looking room too and a great vinyl collection you have there.

My eldest is asking for a CD player. I think she had something compact, pink and no doubt terrible sounding in mind but this is certainly food for thought and excellent value.

And a good job on the Lego ship - don't pretend it's not your work! :)