Exakt

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2015-01-29 15:29

Passive on Mono 2s would definitely be interesting.

One sweet spot might be Exakt with Tundra stereos...

MisterH · Post by **MisterH** » 2015-01-29 17:44

rowlandhills wrote:Passive on Mono 2s would definitely be interesting.

One sweet spot might be Exakt with Tundra stereos...

Or passive on Sagatun Monos and Tundra Mono 2's !

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2015-01-29 17:53

One sweet, sweet spot is KRDS on Sagatun & Tundras Monos ;) If you are interested in 242s with Mono 2s then I'd suggest you should give Fredrik's best passives a listen... You may end up preferring Exakt, but there are serious alternatives for the sort of money that you need to drop on an Exakt DSM, Exaktboxes, and amps... Worth a listen, at least, before splashing the cash.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2015-01-29 20:06

rowlandhills wrote: I think that option 9 is now the best I've ever heard 242s, a place which was previously held by Dynamiked Solos passive (which I preferred to aktiv on Akurate amps).

So the dealer compared Exakt with an analogue system without pre?
Did the Solo system contained a KK or not?

u252agz · Post by **u252agz** » 2015-01-29 20:41

tokenbrit wrote:One sweet, sweet spot is KRDS on Sagatun & Tundras Monos ;) If you are interested in 242s with Mono 2s then I'd suggest you should give Fredrik's best passives a listen... You may end up preferring Exakt, but there are serious alternatives for the sort of money that you need to drop on an Exakt DSM, Exaktboxes, and amps... Worth a listen, at least, before splashing the cash.

KRDS, Sagatun and Tundra stereos with 109s ( or even Ninkas), with Silvers/K200 - is a fantastic system - about the same price as a pair of Akudoric stands!

I had the above with AK1 ( Sagatun in development at the time) and Ninkas and could easily go back to it.Very very enjoyable.

Sagatun and Tundra stereo easily good enough for 242s, but KRDS/1 may be a better match..

WIth the 'Lejonklou sandwich' one basically has a Klimax level ( better pre and power amp than KK/1 Twin in my opinion) passive system for the cost of those admittedly beautifully finished stands.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2015-01-30 00:30

Music Lover wrote:
rowlandhills wrote: I think that option 9 is now the best I've ever heard 242s, a place which was previously held by Dynamiked Solos passive (which I preferred to aktiv on Akurate amps).
So the dealer compared Exakt with an analogue system without pre?
Did the Solo system contained a KK or not?

The comparison I had yesterday went from ADSM/1 (analogue) through ADSM/1 (Exakt) to KEDSM (Exakt), so no separate preamp at any stage.

My "best I've ever heard" previously referred to a KDS/1, KK/1, Solos (all Dynamiked) system which I heard at Anthony's. Different systems, different Rooms, different days, so not a valid comparison, but simply saying what I'd previously had as my benchmark for what 242s could do.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2015-01-30 04:45

It appears that those who have heard the Akudoriks have been quite impressed with some aspects of the sound. Personally, I think they look great and they would go (visually) really well in my room. I also really like the idea of having just one box driving the whole system. I REALLY want to like them, so much so that I've now heard four different pairs at three different dealers! Unfortunately, the last pair were the worst sounding of all - this is getting really frustrating! The best pair were very tuneful and had an amazing sound - with one exception - the bass. Every pair I've heard have struggled to reproduce the bass with the same pitch accuracy as the mid and higher frequencies. BUT, one pair were faulty and two of the other three were not fully optimised for the room. I can live with a slightly soft bass (without "slam") providing it's tuneful. I can also live with the bass extension provided by the Akudoriks - I prefer deeper bass, but much prefer quality over quantity.

I would love to hear from those who have heard the Akudoriks sounding good. Specifically, when correctly adjusted, is the bass tuneful? I've already arranged my fifth Dem at yet another dealer! Should I continue with my quest, or am I on a wild goose chase?!!!

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2015-01-30 09:22

Spannko wrote:I've already arranged my fifth Dem at yet another dealer! Should I continue with my quest, or am I on a wild goose chase?!!!

Maybe check out the passive version. If that has tuneful bass then perhaps it's Exakt. If not, then it might be the speaker

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2015-01-30 11:14

I was amazed at how much difference there was between Exakt (unoptimised), Exakt (calculated optimisation) and Exakt (Dealer tuned optimisation). The last was the one where it really snapped into place. The others were good, but the settings which Ian had taken hours to work out as optimal for the room/speaker combination were just superb. So easy to follow the tune and feel the artists!

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2015-01-30 11:18

Passive Akudoriks driven by Linn KDS1, Lejonklou Sagatun and Monos would indeed be interesting, and a good compare to Klangedang T1 speakers.

Sorry for drifting away from Exakt.....back to topic.

;-)

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2015-01-30 11:47

Thanks Charlie1, that's a good idea.

Thanks rowlandhills, that's (Exaktly - Oh dear!) what I wanted to hear! It's also exactly what I would have expected.

I'm going to continue with my search for the perfect Akudoriks, putting an emphasis on fine tuning and report back - hopefully with more positive results!

u252agz · Post by **u252agz** » 2015-01-30 12:00

I would ask the dealer with the 'best' Akudoriks to set up a home demo for you.

If you can cope with more than one box - get a comparision at the same time with passive kds1/ kk1 /twin /passive doriks .

If you prefer the latter, consider KRDS/1, sagatun and Tundra stereo with passive doriks and pocket the difference.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2015-01-30 13:20

u252agz wrote:I would ask the dealer with the 'best' Akudoriks to set up a home demo for you.

Actually, having heard the demo I did yesterday, that wouldn't be my first step. I'd have a listen at a dealer that knows exactly how to set them up best, knows his room etc. Ian at BillyVee, where I had my demo, estimated that he'd spent 4-5 hours of tunedem work to get the best settings for the Exakt 242s in that room. Unless you're going to pay for a full install at your home, I don't think you can expect a dealer to apply that much attention to the demo, it's unrealistic and unfair to the dealer.

Once you've heard the differences between unoptimised vs default optimisation vs. dealer adjusted parameters in an ideal scenario (the dealer's demo room) then I agree that it might be worth a home demo where you could hear unoptimised vs default optimisation in your own room and make a decision based on how much better it could be.

If your demo was just the dealer coming round, physically installing the kit and spending maybe an hour adjusting them, I don't think you'd be getting a representative demo.

u252agz · Post by **u252agz** » 2015-01-30 14:50

Assuming the 'best dealer' in town installs and demos the Exact system with default optimisation values - is the customer expected to part with the full amount of money on the premiss that the same dealer will return and further tune the system to a state of nirvana.

What if nirvana is not achievable in that particular room with that system and that particular speaker, no matter how gifted and competent the dealer is.

I have a feeling that unlike good passive systems where optimasation of many steps continues to incremently improve the system ( in a linear fashion, if it were represented on a graph) - Exact has a make or break level of tuning, below which it may simply be unacceptable; especially in terms of musicality.

Above this level, it may of course be absolutely fantastic.

The question for the individual is - will that essential level will be achieved with all systems, in all rooms ?

If it is not - will the dealer take the system back and refund the money?

moog_man · Post by **moog_man** » 2015-01-30 18:11

I realise it's still early days, but obtaining a satisfactory level of ExaKt is beginning to look like a similar issue with the Sondek. In that there are a handful of recognised fettlers that owners migrate towards - often involving long distance or international travel - and several other dealers are left out. Either because they lack the training or simply aren't recognised enough for their skills in servicing LP12s.
These ExaKt dealers would need significant funds to both retain older products (someone wishing to compare ExaKt 212s vs ExaKt AkuDorik, for example; or 242s, etc) and invest in new units as they come on to market. ExaKt AkuDorik vs passive AkuDorik driven by 2x 4200 (ie. Activ), then KCT/d. And so on.

Heavy investment.
I only hope the profit margins make it worthwhile (although, somehow I don't see it).

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2015-01-30 18:24

The nice thing about the Exaktbox is that it's just a firmware update to change the speaker mapping. If a customer has 212s and wants to compare them with Akudoriks, both options can be driven by the same Exaktbox, and the dealer can connect it to the customer's own 212s or the demo Akudoriks. Much easier than old aktiv cards where they would have to buy them from Linn for a demo...

The investment is not in the kit but the time to learn to do it properly, and that's a dealer's choice to make.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2015-01-31 17:04

I will be hearing the passive Akudoriks in the next couple of weeks, then comparing with Exakt Akudoriks. So far, the bass appears to have the same kind of quality I've heard from 212's. BUT, I've only ever heard 212's twice, and on both occasions, neither were set up using tunedem. Consequently, I didn't get on very well with them either.

Has anyone ever heard 212's play tuneful bass?

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2015-02-01 23:54

Yes I heard tuneful bass on 212 at neilh. I used all Fredrik tricks and some of my own and the results were great. I will be getting some Passive Akudoriks later this week - early the following week to coincide with Tundra Mono 2 plus a comparison with our KDSM /ADSM / Akurate Exaktbox

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2015-02-02 09:29

Thanks HS, that's good to know. Have you ever heard them play tunes in the bass anywhere else too, or was it just on the one occasion? What were the special lejonklou techniques you used?

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2015-02-02 11:21

Only adhering to the common ones, cable lengths, solder, power cords. Many factors to make to good, better, best. This is why its never a single thing to make it 110% amazing but Lejonklou amps and power cords plus Linn K200 (half a K400 manually cut) is a great start

Good luck

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2015-02-02 12:34

HIDDENSYSTEMS wrote:Yes I heard tuneful bass on 212 at neilh. I used all Fredrik tricks and some of my own and the results were great. I will be getting some Passive Akudoriks later this week - early the following week to coincide with Tundra Mono 2 plus a comparison with our KDSM /ADSM / Akurate Exaktbox

Sounds like a nice system Chris, with the Doriks and Mono 2's. Mind you the Akubariks at your place sounded really good too.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2015-02-17 19:59

Last week neilh kindly invited me to have a listen to his passive Akurate 212 Mk2. So firstly, a big thank you to Neil for being such a hospitable host.

I was also able to listen to the Sagatun monos and Tundra stereo which was an added bonus!

The overall presentation of Neil's system was very pleasant indeed. We didn't do any comparative listening, so my comments can only apply to the system in its entirety - including supports, network configuration, ancillary components/software, room etc.

Firstly, the bass issues I have experienced previously with 212/Akudorik were totally absent. This was a real relief, I must say! In Neil's room the bass had just enough extension to enable a Saint-Saens organ work to sound satisfyingly powerful. A bit of Tom Petty also showed that the bass was also nimble and tuneful. This was the main reason I wanted to hear the 212's and it does make me wonder why I've heard such poor performance from the 212's previously - my guess is setup, and then this raises another question, why don't/can't dealers set them up properly? Too many of them are loosing sales of what can be an excellent speaker - Linn must be pulling their hair out in frustration. I would if I were them!

After eliminating the bass as being a problem, what stood out was that Neil's system sounded very nicely tuneful, together with a very natural sense of timing. It was a joy to just sit back, drinking coffee and eating cakes without being disturbed by the "klang" of a discordant note!

Because we didn't do any comparative tests, I can't say which components were responsible for the overall sound of the system, however I think it's probably fair to say that all the components were doing the rhythm and tune thing well. When one factors in the total cost of the system, I'd say that it represents good value for money too.

My next step is trying the Akudoriks again, this time with great attention paid to setup and fine tuning. I can't wait!

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2015-02-17 21:57

I'll tell you exactly why Neil's system was so tuneful and musical.... Lejonklou. That's it right there. Even not set up to its best performance it's still creates beautiful tuneful music. It's why I'm so enthused by Fredrik and his products. They just work. Superbly. No BS.

MisterH · Post by **MisterH** » 2015-02-17 22:20

Thanks Spannko for your kind words.

I think Ozzzy has hit the nail on the head, but also Spannko with your comments on setup which is largely attributed to Chris at Hidden Systems and the time he has spent installing Frederiks products and getting things just right.

HIDDENSYSTEMS · Post by **HIDDENSYSTEMS** » 2015-02-18 01:19

It's Fredriks products in the main, lessons learnt over the years. Thx Neil for hosting. Good to read from NY USA that has next to no Linn dealers, no flag ship store, what a great opportunity for Linn and Gilad - brand city. Lejonklou may be there first.... #swedeinnewyork

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