Exakt

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2014-01-18 20:37

lejonklou wrote:
Music Lover wrote:Please elaborate!
And did you compare if with another system in the same/other room?
I'd rather not. I was just wondering if the Exakt 350 system is very difficult to install, more so than previous top of the line systems?

I have heard other systems in the same room, yes.

I think you already have!

paolo · Post by **paolo** » 2014-01-20 01:46

anthony wrote:
lejonklou wrote:
Music Lover wrote:Please elaborate!
And did you compare if with another system in the same/other room?
I'd rather not. I was just wondering if the Exakt 350 system is very difficult to install, more so than previous top of the line systems?

I have heard other systems in the same room, yes.
Exakt gives the impression all problems resolved with software, they need extreme care in setup, and I am still learning.

Interesting. I understand Exakt offers incredibly flexible possibilities to optimize the system with the room acoustics/ specific drivers and so on, but I would expect that the system as it is (with all kind of corrections disabled) would in any case outperform the previuos Klimax system, while the correction possibilities are an "extra feature" - potentially offering furher gains in performance.

If this is not the case then something is not completely clear to me. The setup of the speakers with corrections disabled should be more or less as difficoult as with the previuos analogue K350A system. Or maybe ther's something I am missing? Is it really a setup matter or ther's something (still?) not completely "right" in the Exakt system?

I'm asking because I still don't have any true experience about the system apart some listenings during Linn's 40th anniversary days last september, which left me quite admired by some "technical" aspects of the performance but not 100% convinced by its musical qualities.

Very interested to hear the opinion from people who has the opportunity to live/experiment with the system.

sunbeamgls · Post by **sunbeamgls** » 2014-02-01 22:27

Have had a longish listen to an Exakt / Komri system and my notes are at the link below.

Compared to some very very expensive systems I've heard which cost as much and much much more than this system (MacIntosh / Magico, Naim / Audiovector, amongst others), I've yet to hear anything that can carry the emotion and musical feeling so well whilst producing more hifi type terminology parameters in an effortless way.

http://audiophilemusings.blogspot.co.uk ... m-top.html

Linnism · Post by **Linnism** » 2014-05-14 07:35

ThomasOK wrote:From a technological standpoint it certainly sounds interesting and I can see that it is possible that digital crossovers would allow you a higher level of precision in frequency and phase response, while also allowing the kinds of fine tuning and room correction Linn is employing. But does this precision outweigh the conversion of all inputs to 24/192 digital signals? I am certainly VERY leery of converting my LP12 to 24/192 before sending it to the speakers. Obviously the proof of the pudding will be in the listening, and so far most reports have been encouraging.

Having heard vinyl through another digital speaker system, I'm as leery as ThomasOK...

In terms of sound quality, does the Exakt ADC turn true blue, 100% analogue into something like a hi res digital file? I think this question will make more sense to those who prefer the sound of fully analogue recordings to the digital alternatives.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2014-05-14 15:13

paolo wrote: I'm asking because I still don't have any true experience about the system apart some listenings during Linn's 40th anniversary days last september, which left me quite admired by some "technical" aspects of the performance but not 100% convinced by its musical qualities.

Heard a few Exakt systems (Klimax and Akubarik) and I have same concerns.
An analog system is simply more musical but it may change in the future. Or not...
Remember, Linn improved the DS performance a lot during the first years (Dynamik and new board)

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-05-14 16:32

Linnism wrote:
ThomasOK wrote:From a technological standpoint it certainly sounds interesting and I can see that it is possible that digital crossovers would allow you a higher level of precision in frequency and phase response, while also allowing the kinds of fine tuning and room correction Linn is employing. But does this precision outweigh the conversion of all inputs to 24/192 digital signals? I am certainly VERY leery of converting my LP12 to 24/192 before sending it to the speakers. Obviously the proof of the pudding will be in the listening, and so far most reports have been encouraging.

Having heard vinyl through another digital speaker system, I'm as leery as ThomasOK...

In terms of sound quality, does the Exakt ADC turn true blue, 100% analogue into something like a hi res digital file? I think this question will make more sense to those who prefer the sound of fully analogue recordings to the digital alternatives.

The answer is yes, that is exactly what it does. Any analog input is converted to high-res digital at a rate of 24 bit 192kHz. It is then passed along to the speaker where the final upsampling, digital volume control, crossover functions, D to A conversion and digital filtering occur. As the feed to the Exakt speaker is a 24/192 digital signal this is the only way it could work.

Linn uses two ADCs in the KEDSM that they claim are the highest quality on the market and which they say they had a hand in designing. One of these is for each input removing the need for an analog switch of the analog inputs. In the AEDSM the ADC section is not as refined using a single ADC chip of lower quality with an analog switch between the analog inputs and the ADC. According to Linn this ADC section is the only difference electronically between the KEDSM and AEDSM - the digital stages are identical. So there is only a performance difference if you are using an analog source in which case the KEDSM is said to be superior.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2014-05-15 21:45

ThomasOK wrote: According to Linn this ADC section is the only difference electronically between the KEDSM and AEDSM - the digital stages are identical. So there is only a performance difference if you are using an analog source in which case the KEDSM is said to be superior.

A Linn rep told me that the PSU is different in KEDSM and AEDSM...

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2014-05-16 02:40

Music Lover wrote:
ThomasOK wrote: According to Linn this ADC section is the only difference electronically between the KEDSM and AEDSM - the digital stages are identical. So there is only a performance difference if you are using an analog source in which case the KEDSM is said to be superior.
A Linn rep told me that the PSU is different in KEDSM and AEDSM...

We were told it was the same. I wonder if that has been discussed on the Linn forum. However, the PSU unit can't possibly make any difference as the digital signal is lossless throughout the system...

k_numigl · Post by **k_numigl** » 2014-05-16 09:41

ThomasOK wrote:However, the PSU unit can't possibly make any difference as the digital signal is lossless throughout the system...

Exaktly like in a LSNAS - where the choice of PSU makes a huge difference nonetheless....

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-05-16 09:48

The whole Naim philosophy is based around better PSUs delivering improved performance - also to their digital streaming range.

Bits being just bits is a nice theory, but a only paper one.

Daniel · Post by **Daniel** » 2014-05-16 10:26

mrco99 wrote:
Bits being just bits is a nice theory, but a only paper one.

You should see Linns Exakt demo presentation...

mrco99 · Post by **mrco99** » 2014-05-16 13:29

Agree, you can also make a movie of it.....

;-)

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2014-09-16 15:18

So guys, 12 month after Exakt release, what is the verdict?

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-17 11:39

I doubt many folks will disagree that Exakt offers significantly clearer sound and Linn has made a clear step forward there. I also feel speaker timing is greatly improved, especially on 350s. But in terms of outright musicality, I suspect it is much closer between traditional and Exakt. I still feel I'd need to hear them one after the other in the same room to be sure which I prefer.

I do think some people have only heard poorly set-up systems, but perhaps too many for it to just be this that they dislike. Exakt is more explicit, there is less nice analogue distortion to cosset the listener, so perhaps it's not so much a musicality/tune dem issue. And of course, burn-in of electronics and 3K arrays etc will not have helped. Who ever compared their dealer's new Exakt system to a brand new traditional system? - probably no one since the traditional set-up was likely nicely burned in.

Is listening volume still playing a part in this, since Exakt uses a digital volume control, albeit with attenuation? - likely another variable to contend with when comparing both solutions.

All said and done, if I was in the position to buy a new top-end digital-only system and it wasn't possible for me to know for sure which was musically superior (due to the limitations and difficulties of a side-by-side dem), then I'd play it safe and go the traditional route. Of course, I would still have to decide between a KK1 and Sagatun Mono's :)

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-09-17 18:06

I got to listen to a well set up, well burned in Klimax Exakt system. I'd say it was impressive, but I am not sure it was involving... I know it was incredibly expensive. (that last comment probably says more about me & my bank balance, and the Exakt product line, than it does about Exakt as a technology ;)

I find the language being used to describe Exakt, either technically or audibly, to be reminiscent of CD's 'superiority' over vinyl. The counter then was that life is not without it's pops & crackles; taking that away is sanitising the music.

Aside from questioning the musical involvement, my biggest concerns with Exakt are the marketing spiel, and the product lines & prices, from 'source in the speakers', to very expensive systems that you're effectively locked into. Gone are most of the options to mix & match, with the possible exception of using tuneboxes. Gone is an 'easy' upgrade from Majik to Akurate to Klimax. In is assertion that lossless is lossless which, if true, should mean that Exakt DSs should be 'Exaktly' the same between Klimax, Akurate, and Majik levels. From what I have heard: NASs & formats make a difference, and from what I have read, the AEDSM is not as good digitally, as the KEDSM - I'd have to double check that. All this from the same company (at least in name) that originally admitted a difference between WAV & FLAC; that used to say that if they could make it sound better for less, they would. Now it just seems to be if we can charge more for it, we will... and we will make it difficult for you to buy anything from any other manufacturer. (no thanks)

It feels weird to even bother discussing Exakt on Fredrik's website, especially given the outstanding attention to detail, enthusiasm, honesty, and fair pricing that goes into Lejonklou products (in stark kontrast to Linn & Exakt)

All just my opinion - you are entitled to hear, think, and spend your money as you see fit.

Spannko · Post by **Spannko** » 2014-09-18 00:09

I've only heard the Klimax Exact and, in a nutshell, what I heard was disappointing. However, I have to stress that I've only heard it once and I would like to think that what I heard was the result of the dealers inexperience in setting up an Exact system, rather than the qualities of the system itself.

I still want to hear the Akurate Exact system, so I haven't been put off altogether !

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-10-13 15:55

I see there is a new Exakt promo for the ADS/ADSM. I presume it's only available for a limited time period. I wonder if we'll start to see more reports where people have compared their current set-up to the Exakt alternative.

So far, I'm surprised more people haven't compared and reported their findings. Most people seem to just go ahead based upon an Exakt dem only.

lunch · Post by **lunch** » 2014-10-14 17:42

I've heard a Klimax Exakt system twice at my dealer's. The first one was a comparison between klimax separates into 350As and klimax Exakt. The second was a Klimax Exakt system on its own.

On the first night, hosted by a couple of fellows from Linn, both systems sounded extremely disappointing. A weird, closed-in sound streaming from the corners. I blame this mostly on the setup and the room, as it had terrible acoustics. Not a night to remember. I went home to my Akubariks thinking I wasn't missing out on a single thing.

The second time the same room had been treated to improve acoustics. Here I heard the best system I've ever heard. It sounded absolutely fab in every way. Musically,it was superb. Music was just flowing. It made you forget about the system per se. I'd almost be willing to give an arm to own it, but SWAMBO doesn't feel the same way about Klimax speakers' aesthetics, unfortunately.

I think the clarity, lack of magnetude and phase distortion sounds unusual to a lot of folks. But it can become rather addicitve after a while, I suspect. I am loath to go back for another listen for this reason. In my opinion, Linn's hit gold with Exakt. It's a clear improvement on what preceded it. Professional help with setup seems to be a must to get the most out of it, though. But this is maybe no different from previous generations Linn offerings...?

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-10-15 14:28

Thanks for responding lunch!

Yes, sounds like your best bet is to stay at home and enjoy your very nice Akubariks.

lunch · Post by **lunch** » 2014-10-15 14:33

I'll keep playing the lottery.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-10-15 15:21

Did you get to hear Tundra Mono's in your system, lunch? I remember connecting you with a local owner.

That lack of distortion would sound strange to people - supposedly accustomed to bad sounding systems and now unable to appreciate true quality - is a false argument from when the CD format was introduced. When some still insisted that the flawed old vinyl format was more musical, numbers and technical explanations were used in the defense of digital. But all you had to do was listen.

lunch · Post by **lunch** » 2014-10-15 18:08

Alright, it was just a lame-assed attempt at trying to explain why some seemingly didn't like the sound of exakt systems. Perhaps a poor setup. Who knows. Maybe they, for reasons beyond my comprehension, don't like the sound of Exakt. Anyhow, I did listen for myself and what I heard the second time around was just so sweet.

Never managed to arrange for the Mono demo, unfortunately. I came across a pair of second hand Solos which proved irresistable.

Kona · Post by **Kona** » 2014-10-24 14:50

With the lastest version of Konfig, I noticed something interesting. There is now an option for bass boost for Exakt. I am sure some people will find this useful.

sunbeamgls · Post by **sunbeamgls** » 2014-12-14 23:10

tokenbrit wrote:
It feels weird to even bother discussing Exakt on Fredrik's website, especially given the outstanding attention to detail, enthusiasm, honesty, and fair pricing that goes into Lejonklou products (in stark kontrast to Linn & Exakt)

Regardless of what anyone thinks of Exakt, I find this comment somewhat unreasonable. Exakt has taken 10 years of development from when Linn first started with the DS, so that would seem to be a pretty reasonable level of attention to detail. Speaking with the Linn software and hardware engineers involved in DS, Exakt and the speakers at the 40th anniversary event certainly demonstrated plenty of enthusiasm. And in the case of the very enthusiastic Philbo, plenty of honesty too.

Of course, pricing is relative and value is even more difficult to define and Lejonklou prices look very reasonable on the surface. But this has to be compared against the quality of the finish on the product and the level of support offered by the dealers (which is variable of course), rather than just the components in the box.

Not saying which is right and which is wrong, but your comment seemed less than balanced to me.

tokenbrit · Post by **tokenbrit** » 2014-12-15 18:46

The 'kontrast' comment was in regard to fair pricing... The material differences between Majik & Akurate were substantially less than the price difference. The price premium for Klimax has been substantial, even allowing for the milled aluminum case. Linn's pricing appears designed to differentiate their line-up, and as much if not more on what the market will pay, with what appears to be an additional premium on Exakt...
The comment was not questioning the honesty or attention to detail of engineers at Linn, but the corporate direction of the company is in contrast to that of Fredrik, such that they are focused on different details. It also seems that Linn are repositioning themselves with respect to digital, stating that there is no difference between lossless formats, when they used to prefer WAV... Most discussions here appear to be going in a different direction. That's why I think it's a little weird *to me* to be discussing Exakt on the Lejonklou website as there appear to be some significant philosophical differences behind approaches & products.
Curious that Linn always said that if it sounds better, it is better, but the Exakt range appears to have polarised views on 'what' sounds better. Such a difference of view is another reason it feels a little weird to discuss here as the discussion points appear divergent, but testimony to the open approach here to continue the discussion and try to understand the common ground.
The different approach & the different pricing strategies were what I was trying to articulate, even though the wording of my comment doesn't necessarily communicate that clearly, especially if taken in isolation without the originally preceding paragraph for context.

Exakt

Exakt Bass boost