Alternative Power Sources

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-02 20:10

Like most, my system is effected by the mains supply and time of day. Has anyone ever been able to compare their system using mains to an alternative external supply, such as UPS?

Also, with battery technology improvements, anyone think we are likely to see internal battery powered HiFi anytime soon, especially something like a phono stage? Would be another way to avoid mains variability. Would also be nice to say goodbye to the mains lead and distribution block comparisons. Not sure what problems batteries bring though.

Ozzzy189 · Post by **Ozzzy189** » 2014-09-02 20:36

Hi Charlie. Have you a link for the mains extensions that you use please?
I've compared the one used for Lejonklou demos with my russ Andrews one and found the Russ Andrews block makes the music harsh at high volume, stripping the musicality out of the music.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-02 23:24

Hi Ozzzy, my last post on this page:
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=50

Moomintroll · Post by **Moomintroll** » 2014-09-04 16:31

I'm fairly sure that UK manufacturer DNM (Denis Moorcroft?) used to produce a battery powered preamp in the 80s. There was also, at least one to my knowledge, a Naim dealer that advocated running Naim preamps ( NAC12 and 32) from a 24v source (two car batteries!) rather than from the PSU built into Naim power amps. Of course, PSU development then took off and these ideas faded away.

'troll

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-07 21:28

Thanks Moomintroll.

Regards to Moominmamma and Moominpappa!

Post by **lejonklou** » 2014-09-07 21:55

Batteries are more noisy than most people think. If you don't draw any current from them, they can be ok. But as soon as you do, the voltage is not very stable.

Power supplies have developed enormously, but batteries? When things really start happening in that area, I expect them to power my car.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-07 22:08

Thanks Fredrik

lejonklou wrote:When things really start happening in that area, I expect them to power my car.

I think that's already happening :) Even the new Porsche 918 does 20 miles on its batteries alone.

rowlandhills · Post by **rowlandhills** » 2014-09-08 00:51

One advantage of batteries is that they don't put any noise back onto the mains. That's why I suggested that if we ever get a Raspberry Pi based Ethernet control unit for the Sagatun, it could run off a battery pack...

sunbeamgls · Post by **sunbeamgls** » 2014-09-15 15:29

I have had great success with the PS Audio P5 regenerator.

It takes in the noisy mains, converts to DC then re-clocks to AC, along with a large reservoir. THD on the mains drops from 1.8% to around 0.1% and voltage fluctuation all but disappears. In my limited experience of my home voltage varying between 229V and 265V, the P5 output has remained stable at 239V.

It made a small difference to the KDS/1 and AK/0/D but a rather larger difference to my Majik Dynamik power amps. Don't think it makes the system more musical or better at tune dem, but it doesn't make it worse whilst the soundstage opens up nicely, separation of the instruments is much better and imaging is more precise and stable.

Briain · Post by **Briain** » 2014-09-15 22:32

Moomintroll wrote:I'm fairly sure that UK manufacturer DNM (Denis Moorcroft?) used to produce a battery powered preamp in the 80s. There was also, at least one to my knowledge, a Naim dealer that advocated running Naim preamps ( NAC12 and 32) from a 24v source (two car batteries!) rather than from the PSU built into Naim power amps. Of course, PSU development then took off and these ideas faded away.

'troll

Yes, I remember a customer's DNM appearing in Russ Andrews HiFi, back in the day, but sadly, I didn't get a chance to listen to it.

I used to run my 12s from two car batteries and a bank of capacitors (small ones) back in the mid 80's (this was mainly done for cost reasons - I couldn't afford a SNAPS, at that time - but I did reckon it might sound better). It did work quite well, but when I took a SNAPS home, the system sounded slightly faster and more musical, so I ended up building my own version. Eventually, I fitted a regulator for each board and a higher feed voltage from a home made version of a HiCap (so a similar sort of scheme as using a Dirak with a Linn LK1; of course, when I changed to an LK1, I built my own version of the Dirak and used the TO3 versions of the LM317 and LM337 regulators).

What with all this SMPS business in Klimax kit, I do miss building and tweaking my power supplies.

lejonklou wrote:Batteries are more noisy than most people think. If you don't draw any current from them, they can be ok. But as soon as you do, the voltage is not very stable.

Power supplies have developed enormously, but batteries? When things really start happening in that area, I expect them to power my car.

This is very true and there are different noise outputs from different types of battery. I can't remember which is the lowest noise version of a re-chargeable battery (a friend once told me that, but that was a long while - and many bottles of whisky - ago). I will ask again, next time I see him.

Bri

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-09-16 08:52

sunbeamgls wrote:I have had great success with the PS Audio P5 regenerator.

It takes in the noisy mains, converts to DC then re-clocks to AC, along with a large reservoir. THD on the mains drops from 1.8% to around 0.1% and voltage fluctuation all but disappears. In my limited experience of my home voltage varying between 229V and 265V, the P5 output has remained stable at 239V.

It made a small difference to the KDS/1 and AK/0/D but a rather larger difference to my Majik Dynamik power amps. Don't think it makes the system more musical or better at tune dem, but it doesn't make it worse whilst the soundstage opens up nicely, separation of the instruments is much better and imaging is more precise and stable.

Thanks Sunbeam. I just looked up the price tag (£3k). Wow - don't think I'll be trying one of those any time soon. Would like to hear what it does though.

Lego · Post by **Lego** » 2014-10-11 15:15

Pink Triangles turntable power supply was a battery I'm sure

moog_man · Post by **moog_man** » 2014-10-16 20:15

Charlie1 wrote:
sunbeamgls wrote:I have had great success with the PS Audio P5 regenerator.
Thanks Sunbeam. I just looked up the price tag (£3k). Wow - don't think I'll be trying one of those any time soon. Would like to hear what it does though.

Charlie, hi
You might like to consider UK manufacturer, Isol-8 who also do a similar range of power conditioners. The Integra is £1,900 and accommodates x4 source units, x2 power. It doesn't have the bells and whistles of a PS Audio - with their impressive read-out facility, etc; but certainly cleans up the sound, improves timing and makes more sense of the lower frequencies (less general mush). More info here:
http://www.isol-8.co.uk/substation_inte ... ioner.html

Note - I have no association with them beyond noticing that my friend who set up Classic Album Sundays uses one and soon after, I picked up the entry-level MiniSub Wave for a price that was too good to resist. Despite the purchase, I was initially quite sceptical about this. Not any more. It's now another element to factor in amongst the premium interconnects/ speaker cables and next component upgrade. Unfortunately.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-10-17 09:13

Thanks moog_man! Tidy looking piece of kit. Like you, I'm a bit sceptical, so just need to hear one really.

sunbeamgls · Post by **sunbeamgls** » 2014-10-19 14:16

moog_man wrote:
Charlie1 wrote:
sunbeamgls wrote:I have had great success with the PS Audio P5 regenerator.
Thanks Sunbeam. I just looked up the price tag (£3k). Wow - don't think I'll be trying one of those any time soon. Would like to hear what it does though.

Charlie, hi
You might like to consider UK manufacturer, Isol-8 who also do a similar range of power conditioners. The Integra is £1,900 and accommodates x4 source units, x2 power. It doesn't have the bells and whistles of a PS Audio - with their impressive read-out facility, etc; but certainly cleans up the sound, improves timing and makes more sense of the lower frequencies (less general mush). More info here:
http://www.isol-8.co.uk/substation_inte ... ioner.html

Note - I have no association with them beyond noticing that my friend who set up Classic Album Sundays uses one and soon after, I picked up the entry-level MiniSub Wave for a price that was too good to resist. Despite the purchase, I was initially quite sceptical about this. Not any more. It's now another element to factor in amongst the premium interconnects/ speaker cables and next component upgrade. Unfortunately.

The P5 is not a mains conditioner. Its a regenerator. Big big difference, which has nothing to do with a fancy display.

moog_man · Post by **moog_man** » 2014-10-21 08:29

Charlie - there's a very decent retailer up in Dundee who offers a loan service should you be interested in trying out any of the Isol-8 units. I'd be happy to make the intro if you like..

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2014-10-21 08:50

Thanks Moog, but I don't have those sorts of funds at the moment. If things change, then I will consider it instead of a pre-amp upgrade. Cheers.

dubselect · Post by **dubselect** » 2014-11-16 19:22

I am usng PS Audio P3 with a great success.

I have Isotek Sirius (power conditioner) as well. This is quite an affordable device, which does a good job for the soundquality (it not as effective as P3 though). It can hold up to 2300W. So you can connect all your system (including power amps or integrated amp) into this power bar.
If have more funds you may look at next models - Solus or Aquarius. They should be more effecive than Sirius.