Urika and Klyde or XX2/2

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-11-21 14:30

Hi all. I'm selling my KK to help towards the final costs of new cars, but I will have enough left over to help re-coupe the lost musicality and just want to check what members recommend.

I also need to mention that, unless I can come up with some cunning plan, I will be leaving the Akiva club when it wears out (soonish). I bought it when we had not planned on having a family and when I had a better paid job. Things have changed and the recurring cost is now too much. The plan is to get the Dynamik for Radikal when I have to replace the cartridge, and off-set the lost cartridge musicality that way.

In the meantime, I'm looking at the Urika to off-set the loss of the KK. I've already done the dem at my LP12 dealer and know Kikkin2/Urika is more musical than KK1/Linto. But is the Urika and Klyde or XX2/2 not a good idea? Is the Urika best reserved for top-end MCs only? Thanks in advance.

More wants more · Post by **More wants more** » 2011-11-21 22:00

Hi Charlie1.

Have you considered Uhorik or Slipsik together with Adikt?

Was just wondering if you did the comparison of the "cheaper" MC against MM.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-11-21 22:44

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I do like the Adikt with its removable stylus. Whilst I've not compared myself, I'm reliably informed the Klyde is more musical than the Adikt, and as I can afford to keep buying Klyde's in future (or similiar priced cart), and therefore stay with an MC cart, then the better MC phono also makes sense (i.e. Urika instead of Uphoric)

More wants more · Post by **More wants more** » 2011-11-21 23:06

Ok thanks for sharing.

I am just trying to get some inspiration to a my coming LP12.

Have fun upgrading your deck

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-09 17:21

HELP! My Akiva has been judged to have seen the best of its life. A bit like its owner probably :O(

Some people seem to get long years of use. I do give the stylus a short wipe of the green paper after each LP side. Is this too often? I don't press hard. It just cleans off any fluff. No one seems to know for sure what the long term damage is of using it. Do dirty LPs make it worse too?

Also, I recall when I looked through my own dealer's microscope last time that the ware at that point in time was more on the sides, not the tip. Surely the green paper would wear down the tip more? And I don't swipe the sides of the needle by using the green paper at an angle.

£1,550 for a new Akiva is not going to happen.

I suspect it will be a Klyde + Dynamik for the Radikal.

Am still tempted by Slipsik 5 + Adikt but what is the point when I already own a Linto and the Klyde is more musical than the Adikt? Thoughts anyone?

Then I think about using the remainder of my KK funds for Urika and Klyde, but that still seems arse about face. Plus I've really done well with the KK downgrade to Kikkin where my system sounded better than ever thanks to Radikal shelf improvement - I really didn't want to touch it or upgrade it in any way. But now I worry about the step down from Akiva.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2012-02-09 17:51

Hello Charlie,

How long have you owned the current Akiva cartridge? My first Akiva lasted around five or six years. My second Akiva lasted nine months, before the right channel went bad.

Charlie1 wrote:HELP! My Akiva has been judged to have seen the best of its life. A bit like its owner probably :O(

Some people seem to get long years of use. I do give the stylus a short wipe of the green paper after each LP side. Is this too often? I don't press hard. It just cleans off any fluff. No one seems to know for sure what the long term damage is of using it. Do dirty LPs make it worse too?

Also, I recall when I looked through my own dealer's microscope last time that the ware at that point in time was more on the sides, not the tip. Surely the green paper would wear down the tip more? And I don't swipe the sides of the needle by using the green paper at an angle.

£1,550 for a new Akiva is not going to happen.

I suspect it will be a Klyde + Dynamik for the Radikal.

Am still tempted by Slipsik 5 + Adikt but what is the point when I already own a Linto and the Klyde is more musical than the Adikt? Thoughts anyone?

Then I think about using the remainder of my KK funds for Urika and Klyde, but that still seems arse about face. Plus I've really done well with the KK downgrade to Kikkin where my system sounded better than ever thanks to Radikal shelf improvement - I really didn't want to touch it or upgrade it in any way. But now I worry about the step down from Akiva.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-09 18:02

Tony Tune-age wrote:How long have you owned the current Akiva cartridge? My first Akiva lasted around five or six years. My second Akiva lasted nine months, before the right channel went bad.

4-5 years. I did listen a lot more at one point in time, when working from home one or two days a week. That must have lasted about 1 year. I estimate 500 hours max for that year, say 650 including weekends.

Most of the time it's been daily for 15-25 minutes, so I estimate about 150 hours per year, say 200 with some longer listening session now and then.

That totals to about 1,500 hours.

Time does fly. I'm surprised I've had it that long to be honest. Let's say I make it to 70. That's another £9k of Akiva's (at today's price). No too bad, but I'd like to listen a bit more in my retirement - not just 20mins a day! Mind you, at my current rate, a new one could last about 8 years.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-02-09 19:11

Charlie, regarding the green paper, it doesn't do any damage as far as I can tell. As you've already mentioned, the stylus contact area is on the sides.

Regarding the Akiva, I've got one more suggestion: Could you find a used one with low hours? I've seen them occasionally, usually sold by someone who'se selling of the entire turntable.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-09 20:21

lejonklou wrote:Charlie, regarding the green paper, it doesn't do any damage as far as I can tell. As you've already mentioned, the stylus contact area is on the sides.

Thanks Fredrik. I suspect it is just down to my owning and using it more than I realised at first, thanks to Tony's query. Also, my dealer said I could use it a bit longer, so approx 1,500 hours is not far out, if 2,000 hours is the norm.

Thanks for the suggestion about 2nd hand decks. It's just not something I'm comfortable doing - I don't feel I know LP12s well enough to make sound purchases.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-02-10 01:01

It's not easy to check the condition of a used cartridge, that's true. Even if you're very familiar with LP12 parts, you still have to examine it and listen to it.

But I think that if you find someone who's selling a low mileage Akiva and talk to him/her, you can probably get a good sense of whether it's an honest seller or not. And perhaps you could even listen to it before purchase. Maybe you can put an alert on ebay for Akiva while you keep playing the one you've got?

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-10 10:16

Thanks Fredrik. I think this option is really not for me. Too scared. It also means my dealer has to fit a cartridge they didn't supply.

So I'm leaning towards the Klyde (this morning).

I don't think I'll get a Urika. I expect one day Linn will bring out another upgrade which, in theory, will make a more musical improvement than the phono stage. I'll save my pennies until that day.

Fingers crossed the Radikal dynamik will take my Akiva blues away.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-10 11:42

Fredrik, how easy is it to change an Adikt needle? Do you have to remove the cartridge. If not, can even I do it?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-02-10 12:40

Charlie1 wrote:Fredrik, how easy is it to change an Adikt needle? Do you have to remove the cartridge. If not, can even I do it?

To change the stylus, you pull it forward with your fingers. Takes 5 seconds at the most. To fit a new stylus, you push it onto the cartridge body. Simplest thing in the world.

The ease of comparing your current stylus with a new one is one of the advantages of using a Moving Magnet like the Adikt. You can instantly tell whether it's time to leave the new one in place and discard the old one.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-10 12:47

Mmmm tempting.

I've heard a worn cart (my old Arkiv B) vs Akiva during a dealer dem. It was the distortion in the Arkiv B that came across more than any other factor. Big difference. When I got the Akiva home then the musicality became much more noticeable.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-02-10 12:53

And yes, the Dynamic for Radikal WILL take your blues away!

It's almost the Radikal upgrade once again.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2012-02-10 18:42

Charlie1 wrote:
£1,550 for a new Akiva is not going to happen.

Why?

It sounds like you received a decent life out of your Akiva if it lasted 4 to 5 years. (By the way are those real years or customer years? We often find customers who swear their unit must still be under the manufacturer's 2 year warranty only to find out they actually purchased the unit 4+ years ago!)

It sounds like you are at least thinking about getting a Klyde and Urika which is certainly much more expensive. There have been people on other forums who claim that the Klyde/Urika outperforms an Akiva/Linto but I can't confirm or deny it not having heard such a comparison.

I don't know if the price you list is before or after trade in (it sounds a little high for after trade-in compared to the US price) but there is a substantial trade in on the used Akiva body that should save you about a third of the price on the new cartridge.

Cartridges wear out, so do cars - and roofs as I recently found out! You just have to budget for it and go from there. Just think what you'd face if you had a Dynavector DRT XV-1t!

Anyway, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". As for me, you can have my Akiva when you pry it out of my cold, dead fingers (that is, if you could get it away from my arm). ;-)

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-10 22:23

ThomasOK wrote:Why?

It sounds like you received a decent life out of your Akiva if it lasted 4 to 5 years. (By the way are those real years or customer years? We often find customers who swear their unit must still be under the manufacturer's 2 year warranty only to find out they actually purchased the unit 4+ years ago!)

It sounds like you are at least thinking about getting a Klyde and Urika which is certainly much more expensive. There have been people on other forums who claim that the Klyde/Urika outperforms an Akiva/Linto but I can't confirm or deny it not having heard such a comparison.

I don't know if the price you list is before or after trade in (it sounds a little high for after trade-in compared to the US price) but there is a substantial trade in on the used Akiva body that should save you about a third of the price on the new cartridge.

Cartridges wear out, so do cars - and roofs as I recently found out! You just have to budget for it and go from there. Just think what you'd face if you had a Dynavector DRT XV-1t!

Anyway, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". As for me, you can have my Akiva when you pry it out of my cold, dead fingers (that is, if you could get it away from my arm). ;-)

Thanks for the post Tom. That was 5 real years.

The price is the trade in price. New price is just under £2,400.

I understand about budgetting over the years and yes, I can spend the rest of my KK money on a replacement Akiva. But that's the end of my savings - no more majic money. If Linn bring out another LP12 upgrade, then I'll have to pass.

At about £6 per week, you're right, I could buy a new Akiva and save up over the next few years for the next one. I think this is phychological, but I don't want to keep spending out on Akivas anymore.

I think I'll sell the Linto and buy Slipsik and Adikt. I'm not sure it makes most sense, but I feel happier about it over the other options. And I have funds to upgrade my deck should Linn produce anything else.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2012-02-13 00:05

Although I won't be selling you a Slipsik, my vote is for a Klyde rather than an Adikt.

Cartridge is more important than phono preamp and Klyde will be a smaller step down from the Akiva. The Dynamik upgrade for Radikal will compensate and you will be happy. I think.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-22 13:30

Got the deck back yesterday with Klyde. Tune dem’d the counterweight and tracking last night. Haven’t checked speakers yet.

The Klyde is doing fine and I think it will be OK. Less musical of course with slightly different presentation to the Akiva – less vitality / somewhat laid back. It is definitely less forward in the treble and if recorded bass is fat and soft, then it gets exaggerated in a way the Akiva didn’t. I'm sure the damage would have been worse if I owned Klimax electronics and Akurate/Klimax speakers.

I’ve got plenty of new vinyl since the deck has been away. Most is unfamiliar to me, but a few are earlier pressings of LPs I already own. All of these new LPs sound good through the system, so I don’t think there will be an issue with the overall sound balance. Musically, the better pressings I’ve picked up are better than with the Akiva and lesser pressings, so source first not broken just yet.

So the main problem is the drop off in musicality across my existing music collection - never much fun! Obviously the Radikal should fix that. Another cheap source upgrade is a dedicated fused spur to the hi-fi, so might do most of that myself soon.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2012-02-22 20:15

During the years of my first Klyde cartridge, it sounded great and I didn't feel the need to upgrade to a more expensive moving coil cartridge. But eventually I purchsed a Linn Linto phono preamplifier, and decided to try an Akiva cartridge at the same time. Since then, my deck has been significantly upgraded, and these upgrades continue to reveal the sonic virtues of the Akiva cartridge.

Recently, while waiting for a new Akiva cartridge to be delivered, my dealer installed another Klyde cartridge so I could still use my turntable. And as such, I was excited to hear the Klyde on my turntable again. However, going backwards from an Akiva to a Klyde was interesting. For some reason, I wasn't able to enjoy the Klyde nearly as much as before. The sonic differences between these two cartridges was very easy to hear. And although I still like the Klyde cartridge very much, the Akiva is just better sounding. But it costs three times the money too.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-02-23 09:59

Hi Tony. Yes, unlike my KK to Kikkin downgrade, nothing to offset the loss at the moment, so feeling it quite clearly - not very pleasant and I quite understand your feelings on hearing the downgrade. Akiva is certainly a wonderful cart if you can afford it.

I'm particularly pleased I picked up a couple of better pressings as these really indicate that a source upgrade will restore my enjoyment of existing collection.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-03-11 19:09

Quick follow up ref the Klyde and Dynamik for Radikal.

Taken a while cos I had some dramas tuning all the fixings myself. Many thanks to Anthony in particular for helping me take the deck apart and apply them all. Plus leant some LP12 skills myself in the process :O)

I can really understand the advice posted on the forum before about just using the torque settings as a starting off point and then doing the fine tuning by ear. The difference between hitting that perfect sweet spot and being a fraction out makes all the difference. You might as well be miles out if your not going to tune it by ear. And my SV torque wrench is 1 notch off by the sounds of things. I know, I was told by you guys, but hearing it myself really brings it home.

Anyway, Anthony also fitted a Dynamik and that has blown the Akiva loss away. I can't even tell what is missing from the Akiva. It is a substantial upgrade indeed. Very pleased.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2012-03-13 23:26

Glad to hear you are happy with the Dynamik upgrade - it really does make quite the musical improvement to the Radikal.

Also happy to hear you experimented with the torques and found the optimums. It really is true that being off just a little bit can make a quite big musical difference. Fredrik, Paolo and I have discussed this and we find that the proper torque setting is often similar to a mountain range - sometimes there are a couple or a few different torques that sound musical but one sounds more musical than the others (it has a higher peak) and all have sharp peaks where the music isn't as good on either side of the precise point. Fredrik sent me a few of his drivers so we could calibrate them and has compared his to Paolo's units so we know how they all compare and can relate our findings properly. Being only one notch off is really pretty close considering some of the variances we have seen. But as you have found one notch is certainly musically important.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2012-03-14 22:38

ThomasOK wrote:Glad to hear you are happy with the Dynamik upgrade - it really does make quite the musical improvement to the Radikal.

And much better sound quality too. I can really notice the reduced distortion. Some music has individual bass notes where before there was a pleasant drone. Helps my 140s that can make a mountain out of a mole hill if the bass signal is poor.

I’m sure you experience constant reminders, but it was still a surprise just how significant the Radikal is. After a couple of years the original experience had gone a bit fuzzy and I have since questioned if it really was that big a deal. But getting the Dynamik reminds me just how great an improvement is was.

I just can't get over the whole concept of what the Dynamik does for the LP12. It's the power supply for the a circuit board that spins the motor and yet the improvement is bigger than the Keel and Ekos SE combined IMO. I think Linn should forget about everything else LP12 related and just keep on trying to improve the Radikal :o)