Dynamik in Radikal and Uphorik

jajo · Post by **jajo** » 2011-05-15 22:00

Yesterday I got the chance to listen to the new dynamik powered Radikal (with Akurate casing) at Fredrik's place. I have listened quite a lot to the non-Dynamik version in this system and I clearly remember the performance (by far better than any Lingo LP12 regardless of PU).

The new Radikal is pure magic. The difference is immediately clear. I was glued to the sofa listening to The Cure and it didn't take long until I forgot where I was and why... F**king awesome... I dare to say that this LP12 with Adikt, Ekos, Slipsik 5 and Radikal/D is better than a KDS. It is easily my new reference for musical performance in a home environment... And with a pair of passive M109... Those small things really rock with a world class source... We played on volume 70 in the middle of the night and didn't notice the volume until we tried to talk. It was extra brutal to hear some of my favorite songs that I listen to a lot at home (on ADS/D -> AK/D -> active A242 with M5100). CD through a DS is good but the vinyl has a lot more information.

LIngo -> Non-Dynamik Radikal: More silence between the notes, more clear, more musical, more correct and more DS-like

Non-Dynamik Radikal -> Radikal/D: More emotions, difficult to stop listening, sounds in the music that was hard to understand before is now easy to identify as melodies (very cool) and even more dynamics (it sounds like the volume is a lot lower first, but then all of a sudden the music gets more intense and you realize that it is just better dynamics).

When I walked home from Fredrik's place I kept thinking about my own Lingo-LP12. It is time to do something about it and start playing real records. DS is not as sexy and clearly inferior.

/ Jacob

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-05-18 18:37

jajo wrote:When I walked home from Fredrik's place I kept thinking about my own Lingo-LP12. It is time to do something about it and start playing real records. DS is not as sexy and clearly inferior.

Jacob

Although there are some very good aspects to digital stereo components, turntables have always been better sounding overall, and for me...way more fun ! ! ! Being able to evaluate power supplies, tonearms, plinths, cartridges, and so on...is just plain cool.

Efraim roots · Post by **Efraim roots** » 2011-05-18 20:01

I love the dynamik for Radikal aswell, I use it without Urika. It is like the definition of 'no brainer' in the world of Linn. I'm with ThomasOK about the stunning bass improvement, more of the real 'grunt' in basslines, but of course everything is better. Jajo also say it very good: "sounds in the music that was hard to understand before is now easy to identify as melodies (very cool)" I fully agree.

What about the Uphorik then, anyone heard the difference? Maybe in this case it is better to spend money on better cartridge than still using Adikt with upgraded Uphorik?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-05-21 20:13

jajo wrote:The new Radikal is pure magic. The difference is immediately clear. I was glued to the sofa listening to The Cure and it didn't take long until I forgot where I was and why...

One week later. I just came home from a long day of watching my daughter play in the chess finals for fourth graders in Globen, Stockholm. Pretty exhausted, I pour up a glass of red Italian wine. For the last few days, I've had the refrain of the song 'Tomorrow started' by Talk Talk in my head. I just got to hear it now.

And once again I'm back in the sofa. Perplexed. Not being able to interrupt a song once it starts. Playing far too loud, without noticing. Until my daughter, standing quite close, seems to be almost shouting, from the look of her face.

Magical.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-05-24 13:50

It's been a few weeks since the Dynamik was installed, and the performance has improved a bit...perhaps completely burned in now. And with the Urika, my system is finally at a point where all I do is listen. No thinking about upgrades, no thinking about what to do next...just enjoying the sonic performance.

Of course there will be future upgrades...at some point. But the Sondek has such a huge impact on my entire system, that any future upgrades might be a long way off...

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-05-24 17:00

Had some time for listening this weekend. Warmed up the LP12 with new AK Radikal and played a few records - one of the being Jimi Hendrix ":blues". Wow, Jimi was alive again in my living room. Debbie commented that it was so good and so real sounding that "You can almost hear the action of the foot pedals." I looked at her and smiled and she said 'I'm not kidding!"

Also compared to to freshly ripped CD of the same through the Majik DS. No comparison! The MDS didn't sound bad, in fact it sounded pretty good in isolation, but switch to the LP12 and it was all over! So much more musical information it just wasn't the same music at all.

It is erie how musical a maxed-out LP12 is now. It's so good it is hard to imagine it getting any better. Yet it sounds like this new Linn power cable should do just that - I can't wait to hear it.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-05-24 17:41

ThomasOK wrote:It is erie how musical a maxed-out LP12 is now. It's so good it is hard to imagine it getting any better. Yet it sounds like this new Linn power cable should do just that - I can't wait to hear it.

When you do listen to the new Linn power cord, let us know what you think ! ! !

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-05-25 14:44

By the way, has anybody been able to compare or evaluate the Dynamik power supply in the Uphorik phono preamplifier?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-07-14 00:02

Just a little addendum that seemed to fit as well here as anywhere. Over the last week I have done four Dynamik upgrades on Radikals - all of them, of course, very impressive musically. Three of these were to standard chassis Radikals and one was a Klimax chassis Radikal. Because of this I had the opportunity to compare the Klimax and standard chassis Radikals under the same conditions. Both had fully burned in main boards, both had Dynamiks with only a few hours on them, both of them were run 10 minutes on the same LP12 for calibration and both were played through the same KK/1/D, Solos and speakers from the same LP12. Also both on adjacent shelves of the same Quadraspire Q4 rack and both had all fasteners precision torqued and the power supply cables properly oriented.

What I found was the same thing I found last time: any differences were really minimal, and I mean really minimal. There was possibly the tiniest bit more musical quality on the Klimax case unit but the difference was really less than what I am used to just in terms of unit to unit variation with various Linn components. I have to say that the real difference is negligible IMHO which leaves me wondering about those on some of the forums claiming huge improvements going from the Akurate to the Klimax chassis (although I note one of the latest posters claiming this is a Linn dealer).

I also tried two standard chassis Radiakls vs. one and at first thought it sounded a touch better. A couple of more comparisons told me that it sounded better than the lesser of the two Radikals but not as good as the better of the two (yes, there were slight differences and yes, they were bigger than standard vs. Klimax).

Anyone else have any experience with these types of comparisons? I haven't seen a lot of comment on it - at least on this forum.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-07-14 11:12

Thanks Thomas!

As I haven't made any comparisons between Majik, Akurate and Klimax chassis and only received a few reports from others, your tests are most welcome.

ThomasOK wrote:I also tried two standard chassis Radiakls vs. one and at first thought it sounded a touch better. A couple of more comparisons told me that it sounded better than the lesser of the two Radikals but not as good as the better of the two (yes, there were slight differences and yes, they were bigger than standard vs. Klimax).

With "two Radikals", do you mean one running the motor and the other powering a Urika? This was something I asked about a long time ago, as I suspected that the load that the Urika presents could slightly improve the performance of a Radikal driving the motor. Have you made this comparison? I mean using a Radikal to power an LP12, using a separate phono stage. Then connecting and disconnecting a Urika (that isn't listened to) to that Radikal.

Lego · Post by **Lego** » 2011-07-14 13:49

ThomasOK wrote:Just a little addendum that seemed to fit as well here as anywhere. Over the last week I have done four Dynamik upgrades on Radikals - all of them, of course, very impressive musically. Three of these were to standard chassis Radikals and one was a Klimax chassis Radikal. Because of this I had the opportunity to compare the Klimax and standard chassis Radikals under the same conditions. Both had fully burned in main boards, both had Dynamiks with only a few hours on them, both of them were run 10 minutes on the same LP12 for calibration and both were played through the same KK/1/D, Solos and speakers from the same LP12. Also both on adjacent shelves of the same Quadraspire Q4 rack and both had all fasteners precision torqued and the power supply cables properly oriented.

What I found was the same thing I found last time: any differences were really minimal, and I mean really minimal. There was possibly the tiniest bit more musical quality on the Klimax case unit but the difference was really less than what I am used to just in terms of unit to unit variation with various Linn components. I have to say that the real difference is negligible IMHO which leaves me wondering about those on some of the forums claiming huge improvements going from the Akurate to the Klimax chassis (although I note one of the latest posters claiming this is a Linn dealer).

I also tried two standard chassis Radiakls vs. one and at first thought it sounded a touch better. A couple of more comparisons told me that it sounded better than the lesser of the two Radikals but not as good as the better of the two (yes, there were slight differences and yes, they were bigger than standard vs. Klimax).

Anyone else have any experience with these types of comparisons? I haven't seen a lot of comment on it - at least on this forum.

Phew!!That's a relief..I don't think Linn claimed there was a difference between Radikal akurate case and klimax case ...did they?

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-07-14 16:39

lejonklou wrote:Thanks Thomas!

As I haven't made any comparisons between Majik, Akurate and Klimax chassis and only received a few reports from others, your tests are most welcome.

ThomasOK wrote:I also tried two standard chassis Radiakls vs. one and at first thought it sounded a touch better. A couple of more comparisons told me that it sounded better than the lesser of the two Radikals but not as good as the better of the two (yes, there were slight differences and yes, they were bigger than standard vs. Klimax).
With "two Radikals", do you mean one running the motor and the other powering a Urika? This was something I asked about a long time ago, as I suspected that the load that the Urika presents could slightly improve the performance of a Radikal driving the motor. Have you made this comparison? I mean using a Radikal to power an LP12, using a separate phono stage. Then connecting and disconnecting a Urika (that isn't listened to) to that Radikal.

I haven't tried doing the test as you describe - using an external phono stage. The tests I have done consisted of using one Radikal driving both the motor and the Urika vs. two Radikals, one driving each. I did this in the past early on using my own Radikal and a customer's unit that hadn't been burned in and felt that the single Radikal was more tuneful than using two of them. This more recent test used two standard Radikals, both with many hours on the main board but both with newly installed Dynamiks with no more than 10 hours on them. The only reason I even decided to try the comparison again was one or two reports on the Linn forum that two were better than one (although others there disagree). (Whenever I hear of at least a couple contradictory findings I like to double check my conclusions.) Since this hadn't been my experience in the past at my house I decide to take the opportunity I had from having the newly upgraded units here to try it again in the store's system. As it turned out one of the two apparently identical Radikals did sound a slight bit more musical than the other one and it also definitely sounded better than using two Radikals.

Lego wrote: Phew!!That's a relief..I don't think Linn claimed there was a difference between Radikal akurate case and klimax case ...did they?

Linn has claimed from the beginning that there is no musical difference between the Radikal in a Klimax case and one in the standard case. The first time I did such a comparison I found a very slight difference in favor of the Klimax but it was smaller than any other improvement I can think of. Far smaller than having the mat the right way up and also smaller than things like centering the outer platter. But in that case the Klimax unit was not as burned in as the standard one and they also weren't on identical supports (though similar). This time I had the chance to do a more controlled test as both versions of Radikal had well burned in main boards but newly installed Dyanmiks with only a few hours on them and both were on the same support. I still felt that there was a small difference in favor of the Klimax but it seemed even smaller than before. It was after that when I was doing the one vs. two Radikal comparison that I discovered that one of the standard Radikals sounded a little better than the other. Again a slight difference but actually slightly bigger than the Klimax vs. standard comparison. As it turns out the standard Radikal I used to compare to the Klimax Radikal was the lesser of the two. So the Klimax Radikal was musically actually between the two standard Radikals. Based on this I have to agree with Linn that, for all intents and purposes, there is no musical difference between the different case styles on the Radikal. I can't say I understand why this is so when the shelf you put the Radikal on makes such a difference in the musical quality. (See my report in the Harmonihyllan thread for more on that.) I guess that whatever rigidity any of the cases supply is sufficient to the task for the Radikal.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-07-15 10:16

ThomasOK wrote:I haven't tried doing the test as you describe - using an external phono stage. The tests I have done consisted of using one Radikal driving both the motor and the Urika vs. two Radikals, one driving each.

I see. But when I think about it, this is almost the same thing. The only difference is that in your test, you're adding the difference of the Urika performance. And since it was better using only one Radikal, the motor performance (which is far more important than the Urika) is either as good or better, when the Radikal is also powering a Urika. Right?

In practice, this means that it's likely that those of us who have a Radikal LP12 but no Urika, will get better performance by connecting an XLR connector with a dummy load to the back of our Radikal. Anyone interested in an inexpensive performance booster?

Regarding the casing not making much difference and the rack making such a massive difference, I agree with you that it's rather strange. These results show the strength of using the Tune Method for evaluation: We often arrive at results that don't seem to fit our theory. In my opinion, the main reason why so many HiFi companies fail to make musical products is that they cling to theories. Every HiFi personality I've spoken to have theories that they cherish and protect.

Linnofil · Post by **Linnofil** » 2011-07-15 10:56

lejonklou wrote:Anyone interested in an inexpensive performance booster?

Sure! Who of us is not interested in an inexpensive performance boost? Would be pretty stupid to say no! :-)

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-07-18 12:42

lejonklou wrote:... show the strength of using the Tune Method for evaluation: We often arrive at results that don't seem to fit our theory. In my opinion, the main reason why so many HiFi companies fail to make musical products is that they cling to theories. Every HiFi personality I've spoken to have theories that they cherish and protect.

+1

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-07-20 12:59

hcl wrote:
lejonklou wrote:... show the strength of using the Tune Method for evaluation: We often arrive at results that don't seem to fit our theory. In my opinion, the main reason why so many HiFi companies fail to make musical products is that they cling to theories. Every HiFi personality I've spoken to have theories that they cherish and protect.
+1

+1 for me too...

mike_rawn · Post by **mike_rawn** » 2011-11-08 20:49

Is it possible to power it without a Radikal? My neighbour is selling a Urika, cannot afford a Radikal yet...does the Urika need electricity?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-11-08 21:04

mike_rawn wrote:Is it possible to power it without a Radikal? My neighbour is selling a Urika, cannot afford a Radikal yet...does the Urika need electricity?

Yes, it does. Urika is powered by a Radikal and most likely won't sound too good if you power it with something else.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-11-14 19:19

lejonklou wrote:
mike_rawn wrote:Is it possible to power it without a Radikal? My neighbour is selling a Urika, cannot afford a Radikal yet...does the Urika need electricity?
Yes, it does. Urika is powered by a Radikal and most likely won't sound too good if you power it with something else.

Is it even possible to operate the Urika with anything else?

Dynamik in Radikal and Uphorik

Urika without Radikal

Re: Urika without Radikal

Re: Urika without Radikal