Hi-Fi Classics

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-09-22 22:33

This is just a bit of fun and curiosity. I've not heard most of the classic/famous pieces of hi-fi from the past 30-40 years, and just wonder what members think of some of the non-Linn/Naim ones, but just in terms of musicality. I've previously read on this forum that the NAD3020 was very musical, for its time, but what about other classics? Some that come to mind, and appologies if it is quite UK focused, are the Nakamichi Dragon tape deck, Sony Walkman WM-D6C Pro, Rogers LS3/5A speakers, Cambridge CD1, Marantz CD65SE, Accoustic Energy AE1 speakers and Musical Fidelity A1 amp. There's also a very famous and large speaker from the 1960s that I'm trying to recall, but failing, even with Google - maybe Celestron? Like I said, just a bit of fun, not planning to get my own classic setup or anything.

lindsayt · Post by **lindsayt** » 2011-09-22 22:58

TT's

EMT 930 / 948 / 950 all more tuneful than my LP12 / Ittok / Troika. They sound like grown-up versions of the LP12.

Speakers

Bozak Symphonys very pleasantly tuneful bass combined with a smooth dynamic fatigue free midrange.

EV Sentry III's. A bit more tuneful than the Bozaks in the midrange and treble. Less tuneful than the Bozaks in the bass.

EV Patrician 800 speakers. Wonderful. Authoratative. But not cheap to buy.

Amps

Creek CAS4040. More dynamically tuneful than the Nad 3020.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-09-23 08:36

Thanks Lindsay. Not heard of the Bozak or EV brands before. The Symphony's in particular look very old.

I've been curious to hear the EMT decks since reading an article on them a few years ago. They certainly look built to last.

Any classics you've heard over the years that had the opposite effect - i.e. murdered the music, or maybe just uninspiring?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-09-23 13:31

lindsayt wrote:EMT 930 / 948 / 950 all more tuneful than my LP12 / Ittok / Troika. They sound like grown-up versions of the LP12.

You've got to be kidding me.

lindsayt · Post by **lindsayt** » 2011-09-23 15:17

lejonklou wrote:
lindsayt wrote:EMT 930 / 948 / 950 all more tuneful than my LP12 / Ittok / Troika. They sound like grown-up versions of the LP12.
You've got to be kidding me.

Nope. My LP12 sounds good. And so it should with me keeping it well serviced at a leading Linn dealer in the UK. The EMT's are better. Quite easily noticeably better.

My initial impressions comparing the EMT's against the LP12SE indicate that the EMT's are better - but I'd really like to get an LP12SE into my system for at least a few hours to confirm or contradict this.

Some of the vintage kit I've not been impressed with:

Rega Planar 3. Much less tuneful than an LP12 / Basik LVX due to the Rega squashing the dynamics which detracts from the tunefulness. The SME 20/12 that I heard was like a more detailed Rega, but still with the same major fault - undynamic and sucking too much of the emotion out of the music and vocal performances. Using tunedem, the Rega and SME are not good.

Technics 1200 / 1210 with standard arm and mm cartridge. Sounded like the system was playing through huge wads of cotton wool. And yet a Technics 1210 with OL modded Rega arm and Ortofon Rondo Bronze cartridge sounded pleasantly tuneful.

EAR 834p phono amp. Tuneful midrange. Untuneful bass and treble.

Spendor BC1's. Couldn't get my toes tapping to these at all.

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2011-09-27 07:38

Fredrik, didn't you have one of these standing at Ljudkompaniet sometime in the mid 90:s?

I remember talking to Christer about it and I belive he said thet they where common among radio stations and studios and that it sounded better than it looked. He must have forgotten to compare it to a LP12 though. :D

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-09-27 08:24

Azazello wrote:Fredrik, didn't you have one of these standing at Ljudkompaniet sometime in the mid 90:s?

Yes, I believe it was the 930 model. It was quite good, but far from an LP12 in performance. And the LP12 has improved enormously since then. That's why I find lindsayt's comment strange.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-09-27 18:10

Charlie1, I don't know how you left the Quad ESL57 off that list but it certainly belongs there. Not much for power handling or low bass but boy was it musical! NAD 3020 certainly very musical for the money although no question the Creek 3040 was substantially better but also about twice the price.

Sony Pro Walkman WM-D6C unquestionably belongs up there. I still own one, though it sees little use, and it won on tune method compared to the Nakamichi Dragon.

I'm sorry! Is there any such thing as a classic CD player??? Isn't that somewhat similar to the idea of a classic 8 Track player?! Or, you know, a classic Ford Pinto? ;-) Somehow this reminds me of the classic rock radio station in Kalamazoo, Michigan I used to listen to sometimes when I lived over there. Their tag line was "Where it doesn't have to be OLD to be classic!" Considering the crappy playlist they had I always thought it should be "Where it doesn't have to be GOOD to be classic!"

The LS3/5As were OK but they never did it for me. I think they were mainly popular with the "wonderful image, caramel midrange" faction of the hobby.

Other products I've had direct experience with that I would certainly put in the classics category include the AR XA turntable - ridiculously good performance for the money and the predecessor to pretty much all suspended turntables that have come after. Also the Marantz 8B power amp - a 35 watt tube unit that literally musically killed every top-rated transistor amp we had in the store in 1979. I did finally find its superior in 1980 when I bought my first Naim amp. And the Harman Kardon Citation 14 tuner, a big tank of a unit with very fine performance although certainly not up to a Pekin. Considering how little listening I do to the radio I've been tempted to sell off my Pekin and get another Citation 14. However, the little amount I can get for my Pekin combined with the Citation 14 being massive and silver have kept me from doing this so far.

By the way, if I had the space and the money I'd love to get a classic setup. It would definitely be Quad ESL57s driven by a Marantz 8B amp and 7C preamp. I would have a hard time with the source. The LP12 is a little late for the rest of that system although as a 1972 unit would still be old enough to go unnoticed by most people. Otherwise I'd have to front it with an AR XA, a Garrard 301 or something really exotic like a Grado turntable and arm.

Whichever turntable I ended up with the main reason to have the system would be to show people how musical a 1960s system could sound and how few current Hi-Fi systems actually improve on that performance!

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2011-09-27 22:55

The ESL57s were the speakers I was trying to recall. For some reason, I never associate them with Quad.

I like the bit about classic CD players - you're probably right, CD12 excepted, I guess.

Anyway, a good read, thanks Thomas, and thanks also to lindsay for his response.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-09-30 13:00

Wow, the Marantz 8B power amplifier...it's been a long time since I've seen one of those! They have been able to hold their value over the years, and can still compete with many modern power amplifiers of today...good choice ThomasOK.

SaltyDog · Post by **SaltyDog** » 2011-09-30 14:06

I always look back to the Advent Speakers.

I only heard them in shops, but I remember them as being music for dollar values. This was before I had heard Linn.

Tony Tune-age · Post by **Tony Tune-age** » 2011-09-30 16:13

SaltyDog wrote:I always look back to the Advent Speakers.

I only heard them in shops, but I remember them as being music for dollar values. This was before I had heard Linn.

I worked in a record shop during my high school years that had a set of Advent speakers (can't remember the model number). The owner could use either solid state or tube components with these speakers, and they always sounded good. Customers would always ask questions about the speakers, but never about the cool AR turntable or electroincs.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-09-30 17:23

I thought about including the Advents but wasn't sure I felt they were quite classic enough for the list. The biggest problem with them is that the foam surrounds on the woofers rot after 15 or 20 years so they need to be re-foamed to function.

The original Advents were actually my first real Hi-Fi speaker used with an AR XA turntable and an Eico integrated amp. They certainly did offer a good chunk of music for not a lot of money and so probably should be classed with products like the NAD 3020.

Lego · Post by **Lego** » 2011-10-04 20:17

AR 18s: best hifi to come out of America!!??

Lego · Post by **Lego** » 2011-10-04 20:35

Lego wrote: best hifi to come out of America!!??

That could be another topic!!?

lindsayt · Post by **lindsayt** » 2011-10-09 18:05

lejonklou wrote: Yes, I believe it was the 930 model. It was quite good, but far from an LP12 in performance. And the LP12 has improved enormously since then. That's why I find lindsayt's comment strange.

Normally when 2 people have quite different experiences with piece of kit in hi-fi there's a simple enough explanation.

I know it's quite a long time ago now, but can you remember what arm and cartridge and phono amplification was used with the EMT 930 that you compared against an LP12? And also what servicing was done on it and what did you have it mounted on or in?

It's quite possible that the specification of EMT 930 that you heard was very different to the one that I've compared extensively against my LP12.