New Klimax products and upgrades

LeutzM · Post by **LeutzM** » 2011-06-14 22:34

have fun with your solos..
hifi is reproduction - without spectral i would have sold on this "reference amplifiers"and spend the money for live concerts as it would not be possible to hear a reproduced music for me.

But hey I still have my handy which sounds terrible but, yes, it has the right timing xD ... Makes my cry (because of pleasure of course ^^)
hours over hours believe me... :)

But I hope i have reached one or two with my posts. Just to warn them that timing IS important for serious music listening and that its usefull to look for hifi gear that can deliver this.

This is for people listening classical moslty important. As classical is all about this.

Lets end this here.

Matthias

Edit: For naim, btw, timing is all. Look at their Ovator speakers.. 2 way .. FAST... :D (before someone comes and wants to tell me im wrong I've read an interview of the (german) Developer who said that this is very important for Naim.

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 2011-06-15 05:05

Matthias!

Timing IS everything but timing doesn't equal speed.
The timing is impossible to measure and one of the most important things to get the timing right is the setup.

/Erik

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-06-15 17:48

LeutzM wrote:have fun with your solos..
hifi is reproduction - without spectral i would have sold on this "reference amplifiers"and spend the money for live concerts as it would not be possible to hear a reproduced music for me.

But hey I still have my handy which sounds terrible but, yes, it has the right timing xD ... Makes my cry (because of pleasure of course ^^)
hours over hours believe me... :)

But I hope i have reached one or two with my posts. Just to warn them that timing IS important for serious music listening and that its usefull to look for hifi gear that can deliver this.

This is for people listening classical moslty important. As classical is all about this.

Lets end this here.

Matthias

I am sorry but You do not make much sense here! Ofcourse timing is essential in music, as is tones, pace, tunes, harmonies, ... so? Is it more important that you hear the timing correct than tones correct?

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2011-06-15 18:46

What is Timing?

What I have learned from many talks with hifi-freaks is that "Timing" is one of the most diffuse HiFi term. Once there was an article about "Timing" in a German HiFi mag, and there were short statements about "Timing" from some HiFi manufacturers. It was very obvious that all these people were talking about something different.

P.S.: I cannot confirm Klimax Solos being "slow" or inappropriate for Classical music (which I hear most of the time).

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-06-15 21:46

I can not account for what Matthias means by timing, but I am using it as a pure musical term e.g. representing when each note is played in a piece of music. With reproduced music the timing in my world would be the percieved timing of when each note is being played.

A good amplifier is better than a bad amp with respect to timing and tune otherwise it is not better. It has nothing to do with what kind of music being played. I would be interested of trying one of the amps you consider to as better than the Solo's especially if they are cheaper, because I do not think I will afford any Linn Klimax amps anywhere soon.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-06-15 23:49

I also regard timing as a musical term and indeed it's a crucial parameter. I also agree that it has nothing to do with the music being played, it's essential to all music. Asking a bunch of HiFi manufacturers what they mean by timing will probably yield revieling answers. I've visited some highly respected ones and many don't even recongnise that the HiFi system can affect the timing. Well, if one doesn't evaluate HiFi in musical terms, but only by the purity of sound, the perceived soundstage or the flatness of the frequency response, the concept of timing isn't possible to understand.

My experience, however, is that what we perceive as timing when listnening to a HiFi system has nothing to do with sounds actually being reproduced at the right time. They already are. And therefore it's not a question of how much "speed" the system is capable of. Perceived timing errors comes from distortion. Not the total amount of distortion, which we as listeners can sometimes be surprisingly tolerant of. Tiny amounts of certain types of distortion can however be perceived as a terrible degradation. And the balance of different types of distortion is much more important than the total amount.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2011-06-16 12:09

lejonklou wrote: Perceived

THIS is the KEY word!!
In everything related to reproduction of music imho.

As previously stated...live music isn't sounding "fast", but it's easy (in reproduction) to create a "slow" or "fast" sound.
The best reproduction is when it's neither! Not fast nor slow.
The less your brain need to analyze the sound the better it is.
So when hifi system sound impressive fast or slow, that's a bad sign!

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2011-09-03 17:23

Just a note to those interested in the Renew DS and those thinking of upgrading their Klimax and getting a Renew. Linn are discontinuing the Renew DS upgrade package at the end of the month. They will take orders for the Klimax upgrade with Renew DS through September 30th but after that it is discontinued and will no longer be available.

So if you are looking to upgrade or hoping to get your hands on one of the Renew units being sold by the original purchaser it appears now would be the time! The supply of them is likely to dry up quickly after the end of September.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2011-09-03 19:34

What's the business logic behind this decision?

sommerfee · Post by **sommerfee** » 2011-09-03 19:49

ThomasOK wrote:Linn are discontinuing the Renew DS upgrade package at the end of the month.

This is outrageous since Linn has clearly stated in June in their forum that the Renew DS upgrade package will not be discontinued:

"Is this a limited time offer?" => "No -the Renew DS package is a permanent upgrade option for KDS owners."

http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread. ... #pid131680

Post by **lejonklou** » 2011-09-03 23:35

My guess is that the Renew offer was never good business, only a goodwill offer from Linn to people who had already bought a Klimax DS.

Now it's back to business.

anthony · Post by **anthony** » 2011-09-03 23:46

lejonklou wrote:My guess is that the Renew offer was never good business, only a goodwill offer from Linn to people who had already bought a Klimax DS.

Now it's back to business.

Linn coincided the Renew with the launch of songcast, and gave customers a cheap introduction to ultilizing it.
So many sold their Renews and more or less wiped out Akurate sales, so perhaps not as successful as originally planned......but still a good idea.

hcl · Post by **hcl** » 2011-09-04 07:55

Pity, cause I think the RDS is one of the coolest hifi around.

The reason for Linn to discontinue the RDS offer could be many, but I guess they have to have a reasonable throughput through the factory in order to make some profit and as the number of KDS is limited they can have a pretty good ide of how the RDS market will look like for them.