New Klimax products and upgrades

[ThomasOK]

Linn has made it official to dealers that there are new versions of the following available starting May 9th:

Klimax Solo
Klimax Chakra Twin
Klimax DS

The Solo and Twin will have a new Dynamik power supply which is said to make a substantial musical improvement. This will also be available for existing units but it will require the unit be returned to Scotland for re-machining. We do not have US pricing yet but from the rumors it appears these will be several times the cost of the Dynamik upgrades for Akurate and Majik amps. According to the announcement a significant amount of work was necessary to create power supplies that outperformed the existing units and have the current output capabilities needed.

The Klimax DS gets a new audio board with updates using all they have learned over the years of producing DS units. Older units will be upgradeable as well - newer units can be upgraded at the dealer but KDS before serial number 1189823 will also have to go back for re-machining. Again we as yet do not have pricing for this.

In an interesting twist Linn will also have what they are calling the Renew DS upgrade. KDS owners choosing this option will not only receive the new audio board they will also receive a case and power supply that their old audio board can be mounted in giving them a second DS of quite high quality for use in another room. This option will cost more but should be a very cost effective way to have a second, high quality DS player. No mention so far of pricing or of what case will be provided (I would certainly guess something more like a Majik or Akurate case).

[SaltyDog]

Any idea if the Renew DS upgrade can be done at a latter date than the KDS upgrade? Trying to spread out the cost would be beneficial to some. Might be needed to stay out of the dog house, so to speak. ;)

[ThomasOK]

Any idea if the Renew DS upgrade can be done at a latter date than the KDS upgrade? Trying to spread out the cost would be beneficial to some. Might be needed to stay out of the dog house, so to speak. ;)

Reading the announcement it sounds like you have to order either the Renew DS upgrade or just the audio board upgrade when the upgrade order is placed. But as it is not totally clear on this I will check with our rep as soon as I can get ahold of him (which I need to do to get the prices, etc.).

[anthony]

Any idea if the Renew DS upgrade can be done at a latter date than the KDS upgrade? Trying to spread out the cost would be beneficial to some. Might be needed to stay out of the dog house, so to speak. ;)

Reading the announcement it sounds like you have to order either the Renew DS upgrade or just the audio board upgrade when the upgrade order is placed. But as it is not totally clear on this I will check with our rep as soon as I can get ahold of him (which I need to do to get the prices, etc.).

It will have to be ordered at the same time, It will consist of a case, old board, power supply, and give about 95% of the old KDS performance for 1500GBP

[Azazello]

And now I know what my next DS player will be! :D

[LeutzM]

Hahh my dealer wasnt right :(
He said there will come no new KDS and now i baught a 4400 Euro Weiss DAC which is 30% more musical.
Cant wait to compare it with the new KDS.. but i saved 6000 Euro which i can put into spectral amp/preamp and magico v2 speakers.
KDS still looks better :D

LeutzM

[Tony Tune-age]

Hahh my dealer wasnt right :(
He said there will come no new KDS and now i baught a 4400 Euro Weiss DAC which is 30% more musical.
Cant wait to compare it with the new KDS.. but i saved 6000 Euro which i can put into spectral amp/preamp and magico v2 speakers.
KDS still looks better :D

LeutzM

Is the Weiss DAC 30% better sounding than the current Linn KDS? By the way, how do you like the Spectral preamplifier and power amplifier?

[anthony]

Is the Weiss DAC 30% better sounding than the current Linn KDS? By the way, how do you like the Spectral preamplifier and power amplifier?

I've heard it's pretty Spectralcular.

There is a better Solotion though!

[LeutzM]

My dealer is both spectral and linn dealer and he says spectral is better than Linn. The Spectral DMA 260 is the most musical and the fastest amp in the world! Even better than the DMA 360S2s which sell for 30 000 Euro!
The 260 costs btw just 15 000 Euro...!

Solos are slow. Even the newest ones which i owned. The Dynamik PSU wont change that.

This weiss firewire dac with amarra is at the moment the best source.

But i guess the KDS/1 will change that again.

LeutzM

[Tony Tune-age]

My dealer is both spectral and linn dealer and he says spectral is better than Linn. The Spectral DMA 260 is the most musical and the fastest amp in the world! Even better than the DMA 360S2s which sell for 30 000 Euro!
The 260 costs btw just 15 000 Euro...!

Solos are slow. Even the newest ones which i owned. The Dynamik PSU wont change that.

This weiss firewire dac with amarra is at the moment the best source.

But i guess the KDS/1 will change that again.

LeutzM

It should be another learning experience when the new Linn KDS unit is released...looking forward to listening! By the way, that is very interesting information regarding the Spectral DMA 260 amplifier "LeutzM," and I have heard some of the Spectral equipment at a local dealer. Is it true that the Spectral amplifiers need to use MIT cables?

[LeutzM]

No that isnt true..My dealer said for the start i could use my linn silver interconnects and maybe the K600 too!

[Tony Tune-age]

No that isnt true..My dealer said for the start i could use my linn silver interconnects and maybe the K600 too!

Very informative "LeutzM," thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience ! ! !

[Moomintroll]

The Klimax DS gets a new audio board with updates using all they have learned over the years of producing DS units. Older units will be upgradeable as well - newer units can be upgraded at the dealer but KDS before serial number 1189823 will also have to go back for re-machining. Again we as yet do not have pricing for this.

Thomas,

are you sure about this serial number? For the Dynamik upgrade, it was KDS units lower than 1169822 that needed to be returned. Do you know if units that have already been machined for the Dynamik still need to go back for this upgrade, or is it only those that haven't already been back?

'troll

[anthony]

The Klimax DS gets a new audio board with updates using all they have learned over the years of producing DS units. Older units will be upgradeable as well - newer units can be upgraded at the dealer but KDS before serial number 1189823 will also have to go back for re-machining. Again we as yet do not have pricing for this.

Thomas,

are you sure about this serial number? For the Dynamik upgrade, it was KDS units lower than 1169822 that needed to be returned. Do you know if units that have already been machined for the Dynamik still need to go back for this upgrade, or is it only those that haven't already been back?

'troll

All KDS prior to s/n1189823 will go back to Linn for KDS/1 upgrade.

[ThomasOK]

The Klimax DS gets a new audio board with updates using all they have learned over the years of producing DS units. Older units will be upgradeable as well - newer units can be upgraded at the dealer but KDS before serial number 1189823 will also have to go back for re-machining. Again we as yet do not have pricing for this.

Thomas,

are you sure about this serial number? For the Dynamik upgrade, it was KDS units lower than 1169822 that needed to be returned. Do you know if units that have already been machined for the Dynamik still need to go back for this upgrade, or is it only those that haven't already been back?

'troll

All KDS prior to s/n1189823 will go back to Linn for KDS/1 upgrade.

That is correct based on the info I have. Units 1189823 and above can be upgraded at a qualified Linn dealer.

[LeutzM]

I like to share with you how the story ended.
I will stay with my WLM Gamma Reference and Amarra software for Mac.
My dealer compared and said that its on the same level- and that at the cost of only 4700 Euro and the Macbook pro.. puh thaught i need the new KDS but must say im quite happy with the savings and the sound! :D
Will get my Magico V2 soon... Will match perfect with my ultrafast spectral amp/pre. Here you can really see that the 242s are fast but have no chance regarding this against the V2.

Matthias

[lejonklou]

Matthias, are you saying that you and your Linn retailer agree that your DAC, fed by a Mac, is on the same level as KDS/1?

I have read a bit about WLM and doubt they evaluate their products with the Tune Method. If they don't, there is in my opinion no way they can reach that kind of performance.

[LeutzM]

I have it now in my system and can confirm the following:
When i heard it first in the system i now will soon own ( well beside the rack and the the power ) I was totally surprised HOW musical it was. And this is the first time after I had my first Linn experience that I was surprised!
So yes its really a good choice. My Dealer is Linn Elite dealer since many years so he knows what he says.
It is Weiss not WLM you should research!
By the way after my solos experience ( with 2003 AND 2010 Solos ) I dont think much good things about Linn anymore. How can you build such a slow (reference?) amplifier?!
I didnt hear the KDS in my system and at the dealer but in this system I'm speaking of the speed was phenomenal with the weiss dac!
(So much is for sure: The Weiss dac does everything that its possible to listen at this (speed) level.)

Matthias

[lejonklou]

The words 'slow' and 'speed' doesn't necessarily relate to musical performance in my book. I'm not even sure I understand what you mean by them. Are your opinions based on comparisons made with the Tune Method? As you are sharing such strong recommendations, it's important for others on this forum to know whether the advice can relate to them.

And I just have to mention that a retailer is Elite means he sells and stocks the entire Linn range. It's a quantity, not a quality ranking system and therefore I've never been impressed by it.

[LeutzM]

Hi Fredrik,

For me speed means timing.

If you play a note later on piano it changes everything.

Hope you know what I mean, my english is to limited, sorry.

Where the 2010 solos were nearer at the timing of the KCT the 2003 solos created their own interpretation....
Both Solos made no 100% musical sense to me. So worthless if you want serious listening and understanding of the music and the pianist.

My dealer knows the tunedem method and is always after the most musical performance.
He said in the beginning to me that spectral is of course faster but its easier (costs less) to achieve high performance with Linn(by buying his used Komri II).
But how can I achieve high performance without the right timing please?

They try to keep the signal path as short as possible. Thats nice but why use this slow bipolars then?
They claim in the manual that if they need a bigger amp they would use (fast) mosfets.
But i guess they dont have the knowledge for this as the solos where build from the Klout - their best amp till then.?!
And the original Twin was to unstable so they introduced the chakra with bipolars lol.
They said the chakra twin is faster than the original twin but i think this only applys because they used a newer generation of mosfets and only when the 50 watts? of the mosfet part of chakra plays alone lol..

They really should come out with a better amplifier not with a PSU upgrade in my opinion.

Matthias

[SaltyDog]

To me the most important timing issue is the speaker placement. Air molecules more important than electrons.

I took the lazy, but satisfying route with the ATCs. Then the speaker placement is sure to be the only timing issue for me.

As far as I know.

I'm all ears - educate me!

[anthony]

The words 'slow' and 'speed' doesn't necessarily relate to musical performance in my book. I'm not even sure I understand what you mean by them. Are your opinions based on comparisons made with the Tune Method? As you are sharing such strong recommendations, it's important for others on this forum to know whether the advice can relate to them.

And I just have to mention that a retailer is Elite means he sells and stocks the entire Linn range. It's a quantity, not a quality ranking system and therefore I've never been impressed by it.

In actual fact, the Elite status no longer exists, dealears are graded Majik, Akurate and Klimax now, which as Fredrik states is the range not the service provided.

[lejonklou]

...slow bipolars... (fast) mosfets... chakra twin is faster...

Matthias, you are confusing one of many technical specifications with your impressions of how the amplifiers sound. In reality, slow or fast output devices doesn't correlate to whether the amplifier sounds "fast", or to its ability to convey musical timing. It's like saying you don't like cars with twin exhaust pipes, they're too slow.

[hcl]

Most (claimed) fast sounding hifi-gear suffer from adding distortion to transients while managing to keep the steady state distortion levels low. It does not necessarily have to sound bad, but listen to a fast passage of notes (for example guitar) and try to hear what notes actually being played. It is easier to expose such weakness by trying to remember and mimic the notes (out loud or in your head). If it is easy to remember the notes with one unit than it is with another the unit making it more easy is better.

An example of a power amplifier having said weakness would be the Rotel RHB10 (1991).

[Music Lover]

Live music isn't sounding "fast".