Majik 140s internal link to cut base by 2db

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Charlie1
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Majik 140s internal link to cut base by 2db

Post by Charlie1 » 2011-04-12 21:22

Has anyone tried this modification? I know one person that has heard the result and said it was much better, so I'm very tempted.

If I proceed, then I don't really need to use Tune Method as the system has been in its current setup for several weeks, so I think I'd know right away if it is more or less musical.

However, it would be useful to use the Tune Method and go back and forth. I thought perhaps I could set KK to mono and just cut the link in one speaker. Then switch the KK balance all left to all right to compare. Any thoughts or is this not fair cos they will be in different positions, not to mention different units.

Last question, anyone think this mod is room or system dependant? I suspect not and the speaker itself is higher in the hierachy, but not 100% sure.

Many thanks in advance.

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Post by lejonklou » 2011-04-12 22:36

Try it!

No need to go back and forth, I think you'll be able to tell just by using them normally, as you know your system well and haven't made any recent drastical changes.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2011-04-21 12:41

It's done. I started with just one and compared while listening in 'mono' and shifting the balance left to right - easiest use of Tune Method I've ever conducted for sure. I didn't re-tune the position of the 'cut' speaker.

Musically, there isn't a lot in it, but I came away thinking the standard 'uncut' made a little more sense of the music.

'Cut' definitely sounds better. More open, both mids and upper range. Uncut sounds shut in and a bit congested, dark.

So I've now cut both and see what I think longer term. Word on the street is that 'cut' is more musical. Maybe I am unreliable when using Tune Method or it is room dependent or some other factor has messed with the result. Don't know.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2011-04-21 22:44

Re-tuned the speaker positions. I thought this mod would take precidence over positioning, so didn't think it important, but sounds otherwise. Now they still sound better but are much closer to the 'uncut' in terms of musicality. Couldn't pick between them unfortunately. Maybe as I return to new LPs I've been playing recently then I'll be able to confirm if it's more musical or not. Sorry, bit of laziness on my part spoilt the test.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2012-01-11 14:45

Anyone else tried this yet?

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Post by ChrBea » 2012-06-22 10:51

As I recently installed the upgrade stands, my 140s sound much better and I really enjoy them. So I'm not sure if I should cut the links.
Did you ever regret cutting them?

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Post by Music Lover » 2012-06-22 12:30

Charlie1 wrote:It's done. I started with just one and compared while listening in 'mono' and shifting the balance left to right - easiest use of Tune Method I've ever conducted for sure. I didn't re-tune the position of the 'cut' speaker.
You can't draw any conclusions from a test like that due to the many variables involved.

btw, I tested this 2 years ago, cut is clearly more musical.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Post by Charlie1 » 2012-06-22 13:12

Music Lover wrote:You can't draw any conclusions from a test like that due to the many variables involved.

btw, I tested this 2 years ago, cut is clearly more musical.
OK, thanks ML. I take your point reference the test, although I was still left uncertain after doing both speakers, but at least you have a clear view on it.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2012-06-22 13:16

ChrBea wrote:As I recently installed the upgrade stands, my 140s sound much better and I really enjoy them. So I'm not sure if I should cut the links.
Did you ever regret cutting them?
I made the cut before having the bases. Back then I felt the slight lack of bass control was too often a minor distraction, so didn't fret too much over the change. Certainly have no regrets or thoughts of returning.

If bass is currently plentiful on your own 140s, and you'd like a crisper sound with more delicacy, then give it a try. Musically, ML is confident it is better, as does one other person I've since spoken to, so another potential plus point.

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Post by sunbeamgls » 2012-06-22 17:38

If running M140s active, does winding down the gain control a couple of notches on the bass amps have the same effect?
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Post by Charlie1 » 2012-06-22 17:50

I'm not sure. Most input to the forum has been along the lines that any adjustment from the normal setting is less musical, so maybe not. Easy to check yourself though. Please let us know if you do try it...

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Post by anthony » 2012-06-22 19:56

sunbeamgls wrote:If running M140s active, does winding down the gain control a couple of notches on the bass amps have the same effect?
Yes it does, but doesn't necessarily mean the setting will sound the same.

Aktiv bass often goes lower than passive bass, often giving more perceived bass.

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Post by hcl » 2012-06-23 09:29

anthony wrote:...Aktiv bass often goes lower than passive bass, often giving more perceived bass.
I would argue the oposite. On most speakers Linn takes the opportunity to extend the frequency range downwards using the active filters, but most often the effect is not that there is more bass, rather the oposite, but a more well controlled one. Which is why I think it is not mainly perceived as more even if there might be more of it in reality (more extension and more controlled).

Generally well controlled bass is perceived as less bass, but also more tuneful.

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Post by lejonklou » 2012-06-23 19:37

hcl wrote:I would argue the oposite. On most speakers Linn takes the opportunity to extend the frequency range downwards using the active filters, but most often the effect is not that there is more bass, rather the oposite, but a more well controlled one.
Strange! I have never heard a Linn speaker that had subjectively more bass in passive mode than in aktiv.

The low bass lift of Linn's aktiv filters is usually very evident. I always perceive it as 'more'.

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Post by hcl » 2012-06-24 10:17

lejonklou wrote:
hcl wrote:I would argue the oposite. On most speakers Linn takes the opportunity to extend the frequency range downwards using the active filters, but most often the effect is not that there is more bass, rather the oposite, but a more well controlled one.
Strange! I have never heard a Linn speaker that had subjectively more bass in passive mode than in aktiv.

The low bass lift of Linn's aktiv filters is usually very evident. I always perceive it as 'more'.
I agree the bass lift is evident. As a matter of fact my argument mainly relates to the larger Linn speakers. It is a slightly different matter with the smaller ones (Katan, 109, 212 etc) with less bass extension in the first place. I did play my 212 passive as a short test before having them painted and activated and they sounded pretty lame in our quite large and bass demanding room (admitting not having spent more than a couple of minutes on speaker placement). It also seems the original Akurate range is (with a very well controlled and tuned bass - some seem to think them to be too well damped - even driven in passive mode) a bit different in design from the older and the more recent speakers. This seems to be somewhat reversed with the revised Akurate versions which seem to give a more richer bass than the original versions.

I also have to admit, I have only made a few of this kind of head-to-head comparisons lately, but it could also be a question of what one mean by more bass. More extended bass is to my experience mainly what activation of Linn speakers does, but that only applies for the tracks witch contains extended bass. Other tracks lacking deep bass might not be perceived at all as given more bass. Again this mainly applies for the larger speakers (e.g. not Katan, Majik 109 or 212).

Also, some people seem to think of more bass as more of the kind of bass the speakers already have and not necessarily a more extended bass.

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Post by Rufus McDufus » 2012-06-24 12:15

Whenever I hear Aktiv vs non-Aktiv my initial impression is usually 'less bass with Aktiv'. The reason being it's much tighter and well defined. I find Aktiv seems to have a more significant effect on bass (particularly bass guitar) - it becomes much easier to follow. I find this more the case with bass than other instruments. So I tend to perceive this initially as 'less bass', i.e less lower frequency mess than passive because the mess is much better sorted. If you get my drift.

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Re: Majik 140s internal link to cut base by 2db

Post by Freddy » 2012-08-16 23:28

Charlie1 wrote:Has anyone tried this modification? I know one person that has heard the result and said it was much better, so I'm very tempted..
Interesting! I´ve seen in M140 brochure that it possible to do it! Is it easy to do? How is it done?

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Re: Majik 140s internal link to cut base by 2db

Post by Charlie1 » 2012-08-17 09:04

Freddy wrote:Interesting! I´ve seen in M140 brochure that it possible to do it! Is it easy to do? How is it done?
It's probably a dealer modification, so you *might* invalidate your warranty, but yes, it's easy to do.

Unscrew the back panel and gently remove. You won't be able to remove it very far due to connected wires, so expect to hold onto the rear panel. The crossover is fixed the rear panel, hence the connected wires. Also expect to see a lot of wool.

On the crossover board is a small loop of copper/red coloured wire. I'm not sure how it is labelled. I originally took a photo but can't find it now. Cut this loop to make the change. You'll need to re-solder it together (taking appropriate care not to burn out other components) if you want to reverse the cut.

Perhaps post a photo if not sure, or check with your dealer.

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M140 Bass

Post by sunbeamgls » 2012-08-21 20:42

FYI, My active M140s took about an hour to position right in my room. We ended up with them about 15mm closer to the wall than the previous Keilidhs, but they had less room interaction that the Keilidhs. We also tried straight, 5mm, 10mm and 15mm toe-in, finding 5mm best. In the hour we ended up moving the front to back position of the speakers by as little as 5mm and heard a difference. Some of this made a small difference to the bass, but some if it made a big impact on the emotional impact of the music.

So, spend some time on this, and very small changes in position will give significant changes in sound and tune. Its worth pursuing!
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Re: M140 Bass

Post by Charlie1 » 2012-08-22 19:48

sunbeamgls wrote:FYI, My active M140s took about an hour to position right in my room. We ended up with them about 15mm closer to the wall than the previous Keilidhs, but they had less room interaction that the Keilidhs. We also tried straight, 5mm, 10mm and 15mm toe-in, finding 5mm best. In the hour we ended up moving the front to back position of the speakers by as little as 5mm and heard a difference. Some of this made a small difference to the bass, but some if it made a big impact on the emotional impact of the music.

So, spend some time on this, and very small changes in position will give significant changes in sound and tune. Its worth pursuing!
Glad to hear you're enjoying the 140s. Never heard them aktiv.

Sounds familiar reference positioning, especially the big impact on the emotional impact of the music. I had a bit more improvement than yourself in terms of bass, but the bass on my 140s was reacting with the room a bit beforehand.

I too settled upon 5mm toe in.

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M140's 2 db bass cut

Post by ogni » 2013-06-23 19:03

I also see the need to reduce the bass on my 140's having the upgrade bases already installed, but as Charlie1 said there is a lot of wool when you open it. This I know from some modification on my Ninka's can have a major impact on sound if it isn't correctly in place. Is there maybe anyone who knows how the insulation material should be placed correctly?

Thanks

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Majik 140 2db bass cut

Post by ogni » 2013-06-26 16:38

In the meantime I've contacted Linn Helpline about this issue...

Linn said the following:

It should be noted that carrying out this modification has invalidated your
warranty.

You should have two pieces of foam to put in place, the first wraps
vertically around the cables on the left hand side and the other the cables
on the right hand side. When replacing the crossover panel, the port should pass between both of these foam pieces and rest in the middle.


I also asked about the washers between the cabinet and the upgrade stands:

Linn said the following:

I have spoken with our design engineers and they have advised that the
washers between the cabinet base and the upgrade stand should be used.


Now that I have carried out both modifications, my speakers sound fantastic, great guys at Linn ( just one reason why I'm owning a Linn gear for 15 years now) and I do not worry much about the warranty.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2013-06-26 17:42

Glad its made an improvement and you're enjoying the 140s even more.

Since you're on a role, do you have a torque driver? Worth getting the one that Fredrik and Tom use. Fine tuning the drivers makes a nice improvement. If you have an LP12, then it is even more worthwhile.

More importantly, have you tried using the Tune Method to position your speakers? I've found this makes a huge difference in terms of my ability to sit back and enjoy music, instead of being mainly impressed by the sound quality. It's that last 5-10mm that really make all the difference. As mentioned on the forum before, the closer you get to a spike in performance, the more worthwhile it is. Same with the torque settings. Do you have a photo of the speakers?

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Majik 140 2db bass cut

Post by ogni » 2013-06-26 17:59

The tundem I did, having the speakers about 32cm from the back wall with a toe-in of 0,5cm. I also tightened the drivers as they seemed to be somewhat loose at finger feeling, given that I usually screw on watches, so very carefully as I did with my previous Ninkas. Well I got a foto, but shame on me I do not know how to get it placed here...

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Majik 140 2db bass cut

Post by ogni » 2013-06-26 18:13

Charlie1,

BTW: Do you have the correct Torque settings for the 140´s, as I may consider at a later stage to get a fine torque driver for a better result.

Cheers

ogni

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