Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

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Mitmu
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Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-01 10:32

Since this week I am the proud owner of a brand new Tundra 2.5 ! :) Took a blind gamble but boy has this paid off!

Been playing with Linn MISO in Exakt and have been missing something regarding musicality, so sold all and started fresh!

What a revelation this is, in combination with the MDSM/3 as pre/streamer and my new Harbeth speakers this such a musical combination that I can't stop listening!

Got a couple of questions though:

I am using a Linn Black interlink for now of which I have the feeling it sounds a bit 'dark' and 'compressed'. Will another interlink make such a big difference that I should pursue a Linn Silver, or another 'best kept secret'? I can purchase a second hand Linn Silver but this one is just 50cm in length, does this short length affect this cable negatively and should I opt for a longer one?

I have placed my Tundra on the shelf above the MDSM, is this optimal or should it be the other way around? And does the shelf material make a big difference?

Regarding the power switch, i listen to music daily, so i think is best to just leave the Tundra switched on all the time? Or is there a very good reason not do this this?

Thanks all!
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Matteo » 2019-12-01 11:24

Yes, the Silvers are a lot better than the Blacks but IMHO the sound that you describe as dark and compressed is due to the DVC in the MDSM ...

You need an analogue pre

M
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-01 11:40

Matteo wrote:
2019-12-01 11:24
Yes, the Silvers are a lot better than the Blacks but IMHO the sound that you describe as dark and compressed is due to the DVC in the MDSM ...

You need an analogue pre

M
Sorry, but what is the DVC?
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by mrco99 » 2019-12-01 11:43

Congratulations and welcome to the forum! Glad you like Tundra 2.5 :-)

Yes, Linn Silver ICs are a good and worthwhile upgrade from Blacks, but only buy 120cm factory soldered ones, don't experiment with modified versions.

Shelf material does make a difference, what rack are you using?

There's no harm in leaving Tundra on all the time, I only switch mine off when leaving for holidays or with thunderstorms.

Did you switch off the poweramp section in your MDSM? This increases the performance of your source/preamp though I agree with Matteo that a separate preamp would be even better....

Enjoy the music and happy to hear how you get on.

Marco

PS. DVC means digital volume control as being used in Linn's DSM product range.
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Matteo » 2019-12-01 12:16

Mitmu wrote:
2019-12-01 11:40
Matteo wrote:
2019-12-01 11:24
Yes, the Silvers are a lot better than the Blacks but IMHO the sound that you describe as dark and compressed is due to the DVC in the MDSM ...

You need an analogue pre

M
Sorry, but what is the DVC?
Digital Volume Control

The preamp section in the Linn DSM’s is digital

M
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-01 12:54

Thanks guys!

What about adding a Kikkin into the mix?

Mono Sagatun’s is something for next year, but they will get in someday!;)
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by maffe » 2019-12-01 14:05

Mitmu wrote:
2019-12-01 12:54

What about adding a Kikkin into the mix?
It would kikk the DVC’s [insert bad word] and it holds it’s value, so you kind of just borrow it until you decide to upgrade preamp :)
But then I guess a source upgrade would give more and make more sense then replacing the kikkin;)

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-01 14:47

mrco99 wrote:
2019-12-01 11:43
Congratulations and welcome to the forum! Glad you like Tundra 2.5 :-)

Yes, Linn Silver ICs are a good and worthwhile upgrade from Blacks, but only buy 120cm factory soldered ones, don't experiment with modified versions.

Shelf material does make a difference, what rack are you using?

There's no harm in leaving Tundra on all the time, I only switch mine off when leaving for holidays or with thunderstorms.

Did you switch off the poweramp section in your MDSM? This increases the performance of your source/preamp though I agree with Matteo that a separate preamp would be even better....

Enjoy the music and happy to hear how you get on.

Marco

PS. DVC means digital volume control as being used in Linn's DSM product range.
Thanks Marco! Picked up my Tundra last week from Alex, which I think you delivered in person just before that time ;)

Poweramp section is indeed switched off, just as all the other stuff that can be switched off which is not in use, LED's etc.....
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-01 14:49

maffe wrote:
2019-12-01 14:05
Mitmu wrote:
2019-12-01 12:54

What about adding a Kikkin into the mix?
It would kikk the DVC’s [insert bad word] and it holds it’s value, so you kind of just borrow it until you decide to upgrade preamp :)
But then I guess a source upgrade would give more and make more sense then replacing the kikkin;)
Haha, sounds like a logical path in that sense.... Kikkin as Volume control, and later adding a Akurate Katalyst DSM into the system, that would be an awesome upgrade path I think.... maybe better then Sagatun mono's with and keeping the MDSM.....

Only are the Kikkins not really readily available any more, there are non for sale......
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by mrco99 » 2019-12-01 23:48

Mitmu wrote:
2019-12-01 14:47

Thanks Marco! Picked up my Tundra last week from Alex, which I think you delivered in person just before that time ;)

Poweramp section is indeed switched off, just as all the other stuff that can be switched off which is not in use, LED's etc.....
Yes indeed - that was a speedy delivery but even more pleased that you instantly liked it that much.

Agree you should listen to Sagatun Monos one day to hear what you're missing but by that time you probably wish to upgrade your source as well ;-)
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-02 20:18

mrco99 wrote:
2019-12-01 23:48
Mitmu wrote:
2019-12-01 14:47

Thanks Marco! Picked up my Tundra last week from Alex, which I think you delivered in person just before that time ;)

Poweramp section is indeed switched off, just as all the other stuff that can be switched off which is not in use, LED's etc.....
Yes indeed - that was a speedy delivery but even more pleased that you instantly liked it that much.

Agree you should listen to Sagatun Monos one day to hear what you're missing but by that time you probably wish to upgrade your source as well ;-)
Indeed...... from the "regen" in the "drup"...;)
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by mrco99 » 2019-12-03 08:06

Hi Mitmu,

I would look at this from a different angle and rather say that you will simply find yourself more connected and drawn into the music with a dedicated preamp like Sagatun Mono - discovering what your source is truly capable of.

But just enjoy your current setup and music with the knowledge that things can even get better - someday!
;-)

Marco
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Sopper » 2019-12-03 08:25

Source > Preamp > Poweramp
We use this order in importance for upgrade path and most impact on musicality.

But i do agree and admit that getting rid of DVC from the source and go analogue preamp will be the first step to make and will net you the most. (You won’t believe it, until you have done it)
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-12-03 12:44

Is the preamp-section of the MDSM really all-digital? As far as I know, you can still hear your LP12 through it without digitizing the signal. With the Selekt KAT, ADSM and KDSM it's all digital though.

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by David Neel » 2019-12-03 18:22

mrco99 wrote:
2019-12-03 08:06
I would look at this from a different angle and rather say that you will simply find yourself more connected and drawn into the music with a dedicated preamp like Sagatun Mono - discovering what your source is truly capable of.
Exactly (rather than exaktly) :)
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-12-03 18:30

Congrats Mitmu!
Tendaberry wrote:
2019-12-03 12:44
Is the preamp-section of the MDSM really all-digital? As far as I know, you can still hear your LP12 through it without digitizing the signal. With the Selekt KAT, ADSM and KDSM it's all digital though.
I thought the MDSM had an analogue pre-amp section as well.

If correct, then I'd just save up for a Sagatun and enjoy the music...

...unless the OP is good at IT then the Hakai section (home built streamer) might be of interest and would enable the funding of a Sagatun much sooner, via sale of the MDSM.

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-03 18:48

Congratulations on your purchase and it's good to hear you are happy with the musical improvements. I believe Tendaberry and Charlie1 are correct. The MDSM was built by adding the digital/streamer circuitry of the MDS to the Majik-I integrated, which was an all analog unit. I don't believe DVC has ever been integrated in that unit and can find nothing on Linn docs that indicates it has. You would be digitizing everything if you were using the Exakt outputs, but I believe normally nothing is digitized in the path from analog input to analog output.

Of course, if you could find a Kikkin used it is a better preamp/volume control than the one in the MDSM so it would be a cheap upgrade. As mentioned by maffe, you are unlikely to lose much value on a used Kikkin when reselling it either. So worth considering.
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Matteo » 2019-12-04 18:33

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-03 18:48
Congratulations on your purchase and it's good to hear you are happy with the musical improvements. I believe Tendaberry and Charlie1 are correct. The MDSM was built by adding the digital/streamer circuitry of the MDS to the Majik-I integrated, which was an all analog unit. I don't believe DVC has ever been integrated in that unit and can find nothing on Linn docs that indicates it has. You would be digitizing everything if you were using the Exakt outputs, but I believe normally nothing is digitized in the path from analog input to analog output.

Of course, if you could find a Kikkin used it is a better preamp/volume control than the one in the MDSM so it would be a cheap upgrade. As mentioned by maffe, you are unlikely to lose much value on a used Kikkin when reselling it either. So worth considering.
If I remember well, I posted a similar question on the defunct Linn forum and the answer from a Linn guy was that also the MDSM has the DVC.

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-04 23:20

The Majik DSM has a "Digital Features" setting for each analog input. According to the instructions "Selecting Off allows an analog bypass audio path." So, yes, the MDSM has a DVC, but no, you don't have to use it on analog input unless you choose to. It is selectable on an input by input basis.

Turning it off does remove the ability to use SO and video sync delays, and doesn't allow the audio to be available through songcast.
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Matteo » 2019-12-05 08:41

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-04 23:20
The Majik DSM has a "Digital Features" setting for each analog input. According to the instructions "Selecting Off allows an analog bypass audio path." So, yes, the MDSM has a DVC, but no, you don't have to use it on analog input unless you choose to. It is selectable on an input by input basis.

Turning it off does remove the ability to use SO and video sync delays, and doesn't allow the audio to be available through songcast.
It's seems that the OP uses only digital input though.

You can bypass the DVC only with analogue inputs, if I'm not wrong ...

M.
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Matteo » 2019-12-05 15:58

¨When you connect sources to the DSM players, they are digitised, so if you connect a turntable for example, this audio is digitised in the DSM players. The Akurate Exakt DSM has superior ADC’s than the Majik DSM, so any connected devices will sound better using the Akurate Exakt DSM. If you are only using the DSM for streaming to an Exaktbox or Exakt Speaker, the audio performance on this aspect will be the same on Majik DSM and Akurate Exakt DSM.¨

https://hifiwigwam.com/forum/topic/1372 ... nt=2460355
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-05 17:22

Yes, that only applies to analog inputs. So using it as a streamer/preamp (or a DAC preamp from the other digital inputs) you would be using the DVC. I don't believe the current versions of the Klimax or Akurate DSMs have this analog bypass capability, only the current Majik DSM.
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-05 20:49

mrco99 wrote:
2019-12-03 08:06
Hi Mitmu,

I would look at this from a different angle and rather say that you will simply find yourself more connected and drawn into the music with a dedicated preamp like Sagatun Mono - discovering what your source is truly capable of.

But just enjoy your current setup and music with the knowledge that things can even get better - someday!
;-)

Marco
Thanks Marco!!
ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-04 23:20
The Majik DSM has a "Digital Features" setting for each analog input. According to the instructions "Selecting Off allows an analog bypass audio path." So, yes, the MDSM has a DVC, but no, you don't have to use it on analog input unless you choose to. It is selectable on an input by input basis.

Turning it off does remove the ability to use SO and video sync delays, and doesn't allow the audio to be available through songcast.
I mostly only use digital sources, Qobuz and that sort of stuff :)
Matteo wrote:
2019-12-05 08:41
ThomasOK wrote:
2019-12-04 23:20
The Majik DSM has a "Digital Features" setting for each analog input. According to the instructions "Selecting Off allows an analog bypass audio path." So, yes, the MDSM has a DVC, but no, you don't have to use it on analog input unless you choose to. It is selectable on an input by input basis.

Turning it off does remove the ability to use SO and video sync delays, and doesn't allow the audio to be available through songcast.
It's seems that the OP uses only digital input though.

You can bypass the DVC only with analogue inputs, if I'm not wrong ...

M.
Correct! No analogue inputs used, have no LP12 or cd player or whatever...

on the other hand, it sounds very nice right now! Can only get better by adding a Lejonklou pre, which will happen some day, don't worry...;)
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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-05 20:53

Glad to hear that you enjoy your Tundra 2.5 and that you also found your way here, Mitmu!

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Re: Questions of a newby to Lejonklou..

Post by Mitmu » 2019-12-05 20:59

lejonklou wrote:
2019-12-05 20:53
Glad to hear that you enjoy your Tundra 2.5 and that you also found your way here, Mitmu!
Thanks Fredrik! You make great stuff with just keeping Music in mind! Love it!
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