Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

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tokenbrit
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Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-11 00:19

It has been a while... Has anyone tried:

Debian (10) Buster over (9) Stretch?
  • Buster is the current stable distribution
  • Stretch is now oldstable...

MPD 0.21.x over 0.20.21 or .23?
  • 0.21.5-3 is available with Buster
  • 0.21.11-1 can be installed from the Sid (unstable) repository
  • 0.21.12 & .13 released from musicpd.org
Curious whether anyone has found a musical upgrade with recent operating system or package distributions?

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by fatjulio » 2019-08-11 05:28

I recently went from mpd 0.21.5 to 0.21.11 and found it to be an improvement in sound and musicality. In the release notes there are some Alsa fixes for that version which might have helped. I can now play wav files where I couldn't on previous 0.21.xx versions. I haven't tried the 2 later versions. Before that I was on mpd 0.20.21, which was the best of that series. This is all on Stretch.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-11 19:05

Thanks. MPD updated to 0.21.11-1 courtesy of Sid.
Still on Stretch here too - just updated to 9.9 from 9.6

Has anyone tried Buster?

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upmpdcli: latest version?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-16 01:02

MPD 0.21.11-1 is a good 'un!

Checking versions, my Hakai is on upmpdcli 1.4.0-2. Despite lesbonscomptes reporting the release 1.4.2 as the latest, running update followed by either upgrade or install upmpdcli doesn't result in a later version than 1.4.0-2 being installed... assuming the apt-cache policy info is accurate.
Is anyone running a later version on Debian Stretch?
Do I need to re-import the repository key? The links are correct in the upmpdcli.list sources file, or at least they were when originally installing upmpdcli earlier this year.
It works well as is, so I should probably leave well alone, but there's a potentially useful playlist fix in 1.4.2...

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by fatjulio » 2019-08-16 02:13

I'm running upmpdcli 1.3.8. I tried the 1.4 versions but thought it was a step back, so went back to 1.3.8. I could be wrong though.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-16 03:16

Thanks, that's interesting. I didn't think to check beforehand but, depending on exactly when I built/finished building the Hakai, it may have been 'last days' of 1.3.8 or first of 1.4.0...
There are some potentially handy(?) fixes in 1.4.0, and a dependency on libupnpp 0.17 making upmpdcli incompatible with 0.16. I wouldn't know how to revert to 1.3.8 and resolve the upnp lib version dependency, if necessary, let alone begin to guess how a front-end for MPD affects the musicality :)
All I can say is that MPD 0.21.11-1 & upmpdcli 1.4.0-2 sounds good here ... surprisingly good ... as in even making Nickelback sound good good :D

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by fatjulio » 2019-08-16 04:14

Yes, I've really been enjoying the new mpd version too. The way I went back with upmpdcli was to get the source and compile, the same way as with mpd.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-16 15:23

Did you revert to libupnpp 0.16 at the same time as rolling back to upmpdcli 1.3.8, or is that still on 0.17 (or higher)?

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by fatjulio » 2019-08-16 22:23

Yes, I had to. That was part of the source to complie too.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-17 22:26

Thanks 'julio. I'm going to go with the maxim: "if it ain't broke don't fix it", and stick with 1.4.0-2. My Hakai sounds good enough that the missus sat there listening & singing along - always a good sign, if not a good sound ;) I put on Pink Floyd DSotM, Time to signal time's up on the listening session, but she didn't take the hint; wanted me to show her the Money :D

Too much of a faff to purge upmpdcli and compile 1.3.8 from source, and bad memories from my days as a developer: my code always worked fine until I compiled it :)

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by fatjulio » 2019-08-18 06:31

I just tried out mpd 0.21.13. Nah. It's a bit more hifi, less musical. Not by much, but stay on 0.21.11.
I also had a go at upmpdcli 1.4.2. It's very close to 1.3.8, but I prefer 1.3.8. It's very minor though.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-08-18 12:22

Thanks for letting me know.

All this is not much different to picking 'best' DS firmware from Linn...

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by David Neel » 2019-10-31 23:07

My intermittent Hakai experiments continue... I've installed Debian Buster 10.1 with mpd 21.5, and then I upgraded to 21.13 from sid. Not a good move, on brief listening, and I'm currently reinstalling 21.5, as 21.11 does not seem to available except as a .deb file, and that's beyond my limited Linux skills. For most of my previous builds, I have used an Intel 320 40GB SSD. This time I've used a 300GB version, so there may be differences due to this change.

Back with 21.5, I will listen over a few days, but it seems to me to be rather more musical than 21.13.

EDIT: I'm noticing a slight lack of impetus: pitch and timing are not quite locked-on in the way they should be. Suggestions for the cause of that would be welcomed.
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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-11-01 15:14

The latest version of the SnakeOil OS comes with six versions of MPD, each release contains the most recent version plus a few previous versions back to v17.0. What I'm curious about is who tunes MPD and how. I don't believe it's just code playing every codec natively. I posed the question on the MPD forum but didn't get an answer.

My listening experience is so good listening to a Hakai player fed by a Hakai server that I'm more likely to be bothered by the noise of the kettle boiling than the version of MPD. AgentKith explained his MPD tuning process and I was very satisfied with his explanation and the resulting sound. By default each release of the Snakeoil OS is playing the most recent version of MPD at the date of the build.

The biggest improvements by far to my listening experience were:

1. The introduction of the Hakai player,
2. The addition of the Hakai server,
3. Moving from Volumio to SnakeOil OS.

Sure, adding the Supra USB cable made a difference but it was small beer compared to those three.

Incidentally, the Hakai server is definitely a HiFi source in its own right as a player in addition to being a glorious server.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by David Neel » 2019-11-01 18:48

David Neel wrote:
2019-10-31 23:07
EDIT: I'm noticing a slight lack of impetus: pitch and timing are not quite locked-on in the way they should be. Suggestions for the cause of that would be welcomed.
Today's experiment sees the old 40GB SSD loaded with Stretch (9.9), MPD 21.5 and upmpdcli 1.4.5. Quick verdict? The musical impetus is back... mostly. So Stretch seems to be better than Buster. (Edit: It's not all one way, I may experiment with this in the playground.) I'll probably give snakeoil another go as well, when I have time.
Last edited by David Neel on 2019-11-01 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-11-01 19:12

I was going to suggest Stretch :) Glad you got your groove back (not calling you Stella ;)

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by David Neel » 2019-11-01 22:22

tokenbrit wrote:
2019-11-01 19:12
I was going to suggest Stretch :) Glad you got your groove back (not calling you Stella ;)
Thanks! I now think Buster IS an improvement on Stretch. How come? I had been conducting these recent trials with the case top and disk cage removed, fixing the SSD in the vertical slot with two screws at the bottom only. To make the switch quicker, I mounted both SSDs on the cage, connecting power to both but SATA to only one. This removed the timing/pitch stability issues I heard with both (but mainly with Buster), even before I bolted the cage down. So I now know that SSDs need rigidly mounting...

Anyway, the Buster SSD is now firmly bolted in place and the case closed. I wonder if anyone has worked out the ideal torque setting for each screw?
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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-11-01 22:33

David,

I don't have the ideal torque but I have found tightening them with a rubber washer seems to work effectively.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-11-02 00:21

David Neel wrote:
2019-11-01 22:22
.. I now think Buster IS an improvement on Stretch... the Buster SSD is now firmly bolted in place and .. case closed.
Maybe not "case closed" if you're going to investigate ideal torque settings... :) Do I understand correctly that you installed your SSD horizontally, above the CPU? I don't suppose you, or anyone else, has tried the o/s SSD in both options - vertical to the side of the mobo; horizontal above - to check whether that makes any difference? I installed mine vertically to the side (secured top & bottom) as that worked better for wiring and separation from CPU heat...

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-11-02 01:36

I don't suppose you, or anyone else, has tried the o/s SSD in both options - vertical to the side of the mobo; horizontal above - to check whether that makes any difference?
I tried both in the dedicated player, it made no difference essentially because there's hardly any heat generated with one SSD in an extremely basic PC.

When building the server I did seek out shorter sata cables and a very efficient multiple power sata cable from China to minimise heat and maximise isolation.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-11-02 02:15

No difference heat-wise, or musically?

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-11-02 10:16

Both, there's not enough heat generated to affect heat. Neither the mobo or the SSD generate much heat at all. The demands on the CPU of this type of Linux build are light.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-11-02 12:33

Got that the load/heat in streaming are low; was curious for more description on musical comparison, esp since ThomasOK's experiences with LSNAS & Radikal indicate that mobo orientation can make a surprising difference, hence wondering whether same is true just of SSD in Hakai. Have you compared & determined musically, or inferred because "there's not enough heat generated to affect..."? Your post simply said 'both' but seemed more heat focussed - I was more 'musicurious' ;)
I'm loathe to pull apart my Hakai since it sounds sweet, and if it ain't broke don't 'fix' it, but would do so if indication was that there's something to be gained... (along with an upgrade to Buster, apparently)

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-11-02 14:46

Yes, I played it with the SSD vertical and horizontal and it made no appreciable difference to the sound quality.

The only significant sound quality difference I did get was by using very short cables for the SSDs in my Hakai server. But the Streacom case is a tight squeeze for four SSDs (five SSDs is possible but I've got three TB of space to play with before I even think of adding a fifth). Buying the better design of power cable and using shorter sata cables reduced the heat significantly. And I believe it gave me better imaging and more musicality than when the server was running warmer.

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Re: Debian/MPD: Recent/Latest Versions?

Post by David Neel » 2019-11-02 15:20

tokenbrit wrote:
2019-11-02 12:33
(along with an upgrade to Buster, apparently)
Don't forget that I had Stretch on a 40GB SSD, and Buster on a 300GB. Back in the LSNAS days, it was said that bigger is better for Intel 320s. That said, I kept back the bigger disks for the NAS and used the 40GB for Hakai, but this 300GB was free at the time to enable quick switching. So I'd be very interested in a second opinion on Buster.
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