LP12 Radikal problem

Hardware and software, modifications and DIY

Moderator: Staff

Peder
New member
New member
Posts: 4
Joined: 2020-03-08 12:57

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Peder » 2020-03-13 12:09

🔴 Some news about this great Scandal within the LP12-world..??

Now that Linn comes with Karousel,.have they fixed this.....
🔸"LP12-Radikal Problem"

Or puts Linn still his head in the sand,.and denies that the problem exists.

/Peder🤔
Last edited by Peder on 2020-03-13 15:37, edited 1 time in total.

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 968
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: East of The Black Country, UK

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Spannko » 2020-03-13 15:05

I don’t know about the Radikal malarkey, but welcome to the forum Peder. I’ve seen your posts on the Naim forum and I think you’ll feel right at home here! 🤗

Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 463
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Defender » 2020-03-13 20:34

is this the Peder from the Naim Forum who wrote about the Cisco switches? Welcome! And enjoy a wealth of experience here too.
I dont think the Karousel will change anything related to the Radikal issue as it will not change the space which is simply not there.

User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 359
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tendaberry » 2020-03-14 10:54

I will report on this, when I get my freshly ordered LP12 in April.

Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 463
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Defender » 2020-03-19 13:14

Hi Peder
I saw you mentioned in another thread you didnt got an answer for your question if the Radikal problem has been solved.
Tendaberry was so nice and said he will inform you as soon as he have his new LP12.
As there are not so many people who are buying a new LP in this forum the only ones who can answer your question are dealers.

I am sorry that my post doesn’t help you in the way you might have hoped but maybe it makes you understand better why there is not much information.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2802
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-21 17:16

I think the answer would depend on your definition of solved. The plinths I have seen on newer LP12s for about the last year or more have generally been 66mm, including our demo Majik LP12 with the new Majik arm, and none of them have had the problem. However our demo Klimax LP12, which is over two years old has a 65mm plinth and does need the spacers. So you could say that it seems Linn has solved the problem for new LP12s, but there has been no retrofit from Linn for older LP12s with the problem nor any admittance that there is a problem, and I do not expect there will be.

The spacer Charlie1 talked about was for the problem with the Lingo 4 and I have not heard anything further on this. It was not something for the Radikal/Trampolin2 problem.

Seeing as the reports on the Linn forum had been hinted as one of the reasons that forum was shut down, and the reception your dealer had from Scotland, you can see why many dealers might not want to talk about it.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 3195
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-03-21 18:26

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-21 17:16
The spacer Charlie1 talked about was for the problem with the Lingo 4 and I have not heard anything further on this. It was not something for the Radikal/Trampolin2 problem.
Oh, sorry Thomas - wrong end of the stick.

Thanks for clarifying.

User avatar
Tony Tune-age
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 943
Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
Location: United States

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tony Tune-age » 2020-03-22 15:24

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-21 17:16
The plinths I have seen on newer LP12s for about the last year or more have generally been 66mm, including our demo Majik LP12 with the new Majik arm, and none of them have had the problem. However our demo Klimax LP12, which is over two years old has a 65mm plinth and does need the spacers. So you could say that it seems Linn has solved the problem for new LP12s, but there has been no retrofit from Linn for older LP12s with the problem nor any admittance that there is a problem, and I do not expect there will be.
Very worthwhile information for sure. And you're probably 100% correct about Linn having no admittance to an existing problem, or a retrofit for older plinths. Perhaps other Sondek plinth makers will have to change their dimensions as well.

Cheers
Tony Tune-age

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2802
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-24 17:16

Actually, Chris Harban changed his plinth dimensions years ago having realized that there could be a fitment problem. He even sold me a plinth or two at a discount as they weren’t tall enough to comfortably fit a Radikal.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

User avatar
Tony Tune-age
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 943
Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
Location: United States

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tony Tune-age » 2020-03-24 21:09

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-24 17:16
Actually, Chris Harban changed his plinth dimensions years ago having realized that there could be a fitment problem. He even sold me a plinth or two at a discount as they weren’t tall enough to comfortably fit a Radikal.
It's really impressive that Chris Harban was able to recognize the potential problem, and then make the necessary changes long before Linn! He's an excellent business person, in addition to having excellent woodworking skills.

Cheers
Tony Tune-age

User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 319
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-03-25 10:19

Tony Tune-age wrote:
2020-03-24 21:09
ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-24 17:16
Actually, Chris Harban changed his plinth dimensions years ago having realized that there could be a fitment problem. He even sold me a plinth or two at a discount as they weren’t tall enough to comfortably fit a Radikal.
It's really impressive that Chris Harban was able to recognize the potential problem, and then make the necessary changes long before Linn! He's an excellent business person, in addition to having excellent woodworking skills.

Cheers
Chris Harban plinths are that good in sound as well ... ???
I have not have opportunity to hear any of this Legendary CH Plinths ...
Music First ...
Vlado

User avatar
Tony Tune-age
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 943
Joined: 2009-12-19 19:07
Location: United States

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by Tony Tune-age » 2020-03-26 17:11

V.A.MKD wrote:
2020-03-25 10:19
Tony Tune-age wrote:
2020-03-24 21:09
ThomasOK wrote:
2020-03-24 17:16
Actually, Chris Harban changed his plinth dimensions years ago having realized that there could be a fitment problem. He even sold me a plinth or two at a discount as they weren’t tall enough to comfortably fit a Radikal.
It's really impressive that Chris Harban was able to recognize the potential problem, and then make the necessary changes long before Linn! He's an excellent business person, in addition to having excellent woodworking skills.
Chris Harban plinths are that good in sound as well ... ???
I have not have opportunity to hear any of this Legendary CH Plinths ...
In my opinion, absolutely...100%. My original Linn plinth was afrormosia, and it sounded nice. I eventually decided to purchase a movingui plinth from Chris, which is one of his better sounding plinths. And some would say it's his best sounding wood plinth. In any case, it's hands down better sounding than my previous Linn plinth. No regrets at all, and still happy with my decision!

Cheers
Tony Tune-age

User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 319
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-03-27 10:53

Tony Tune-age wrote:
2020-03-26 17:11
V.A.MKD wrote:
2020-03-25 10:19
Tony Tune-age wrote:
2020-03-24 21:09

It's really impressive that Chris Harban was able to recognize the potential problem, and then make the necessary changes long before Linn! He's an excellent business person, in addition to having excellent woodworking skills.
Chris Harban plinths are that good in sound as well ... ???
I have not have opportunity to hear any of this Legendary CH Plinths ...
In my opinion, absolutely...100%. My original Linn plinth was afrormosia, and it sounded nice. I eventually decided to purchase a movingui plinth from Chris, which is one of his better sounding plinths. And some would say it's his best sounding wood plinth. In any case, it's hands down better sounding than my previous Linn plinth. No regrets at all, and still happy with my decision!

Cheers
Thank you very much for your answer and be strong ... it's hard time for all of us ...
Music First ...
Vlado

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2802
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-03-28 18:54

I have been very pleased overall with the plinths Chris Harban makes. However, each plinth wood has a different sound and there are also variances from one plinth to another. I don't want to go over old ground that much here so see this thread for a fair bit more information:

https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... lit=plinth

Some additional information. While I have in general found the Harban movingui and cocobolo plinths to be the most musical (and my own movingui to be the best I have heard), the Harban ebony is likely in the same category and a refinished Linn cross braced rosewood is also quite close. I was not able to do a direct comparison of those two with any others, but I have now worked with so many plinths that I can tell pretty much how it will sound by the tap tone. In my experience, no other measurement: hardness, density, weight, even resonance tests, will tell you what a plinth will sound like. But the tap tone will if you know what to listen for. The best sounding plinths have a very melodic tone the with a good range of frequencies. Tap tones with a bright or overly ringing sound will sound forward on an LP12, those with no bass range will sound bass shy, those with limited high end will sound soft as if there was a slight high filter, etc. So what you want is a tap tone that has a little ring, but not a long one, a balanced sound frequency wise and a melodic tone with no hash, harshness or out of tune sound. This is what I hear from the plinths that have the best musical quality.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule, which is why I mentioned unit to unit variation. I have a sterling example of that in the plinths I evaluated and installed for one customer who lives quite a ways away from me. He had bought two plinths from Chris, a movingui and a catalox (which I had never heard of) yet he ended up using a Linn afromosia on his better LP12. However, this wasn't quite a stock afromosia plinth. This customer was involved in house design and was very into quality wood, as could be seen in his gorgeous house. So he took his afromosia plinth to a quality professional woodworker and had him true it up very precisely: flatness of top and bottom and the inner wood strips, with a precise distance from the top so the stainless steel top plate fit properly. Then it was refinished. He said the catalox was the worst being bright and hard sounding. I asked him if he had tried a tap tone and he said he had and it sounded like a bar of steel! Not good.

I went out to his house in Virginia to set up his two LP12s and I took them both apart so we could evaluate all three plinths. The catalox was definitely hard sounding, the movingui was good but not as good as some others I had heard and the afromosia was indeed the most musical. So the afromosia went on his main LP12, the movingui on the one he keeps at his office and the catalox probably went on eBay. I ended up spending another day torquing all his electronics once he heard the difference it made on the Radikal, and he bought a driver so he could experiment further.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 319
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: LP12 Radikal problem

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-04-01 08:08

Hi Thomas,
Thank you for your excellent post and sharing with us your rich experience ...
Wood and Tap Tone is essential ... but from beginning ...
Many years ago my system was on home furniture and one day I decide to make proper ruck. At that time, only good solution available was glass. I made it and comparing to "furniture" it was improvement but ... I think that wood will be better ... After some time, on the market shows "Cherry Slabs" ... reaction was immediately and result was comparing to glass much better. In the mean time I find that Spruce is quite a good option a lot of usage in HiFi, but as well in Instrument Making Industry ... but I cant find what I need. One day I find, in DIY shop German supplier ... good German quality and ... This was and still is my best rack ... made of Spruce Slabs. Sounds great, but I want more ... for each component additional and again good result ... but ... There is always but ... One day I find close to my town a Violin Maker that produces string instruments and the price go 60k Eur and up ... Is it OK or not ... but I find that he have Top quality Spruce, naturally dried, Tap Tone Selected, 5+ years at least stays in his storage ...
He have two secrets Spruce Supplier and all Recipes for different varnish for his instruments ...
So Tap Tone and those Spruce Slabs will be my next "project" for all components ... not now ... but in near future, after this madness go ...

P.S. Several posts from here have to be in "The Sound of LP12 Plinths" ...
Music First ...
Vlado

Post Reply