Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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kallesprätt
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt » 2020-06-27 20:01

Tendaberry wrote:
2020-06-27 11:18
kallesprätt wrote:
2020-06-26 23:03
The Catsnake is not bad but the microconnect is better, I need to try the Blue Jeans Cables.
Clips of that would be very interesting :-)
I just placed an order for a pair of 8.5 feet Blue Jeans Cables.
When they arrive I will use them for a couple of days and then compare them to the microconnect cables.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz » 2020-06-27 20:25

u252agz wrote:
2020-06-27 10:12
I also preferred 1, accepting that 2 is more musical ( and with better Hi Fi).
Listening to the second track For the first time I do prefer 2,

Going back to Amy Duncan a couple of times now, I find that not only do I get used to and appreciate the better HIFI, but now it does not interfere with the song and I can enjoy the better musicality.

Lesson for me here is to listen a few times if the musicality is better and the HIFI sounds seem distracting.
KDS2/Sagatun Tundra Monos /242s /LP12 Kore-KRad-Ekos SE/Slip 7

Sneaky/RP3/Slip 6.1/ Boazu/ Komp110

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt » 2020-06-30 11:09

Oppo 105 mains connected vs not connected.

Connected:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6noo42848nla5 ... 7.mov?dl=0

Not connected:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5idzmv19hwnsn ... 3.mov?dl=0

/Kallesprätt

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-06-30 13:57

Slight preference for 'not connected' but both were good.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-06-30 17:12

I feel more connected to the 'not connected' so I'm picking that one.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-02 16:55

I end up preferring ‘not connected’ too.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-07-02 17:29

kallesprätt wrote:
2020-06-30 11:09
Oppo 105 mains connected vs not connected.

Connected:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6noo42848nla5 ... 7.mov?dl=0

Not connected:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5idzmv19hwnsn ... 3.mov?dl=0

/Kallesprätt
I'm for not connected.
Music First ...
Vlado

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-07-02 18:23

Yep, not connected is better. Same thing I found when I disconnected the CD12 from the AC even though it was not plugged into the Sagatun Monos. These types of things take us into the deep end and do get somewhat annoying as it increases the difficulty of having more than one source. It is almost enough to make me go LP only. However, I have the advantage of having a separate 230 Volt circuit for the Hi-Fi, so I have connected my secondary sources to a power strip connected to 120 Volts to isolate them. I haven't yet tested whether unplugging the CD12 or Kremlin from this would make a difference, and I'm not sure I want to know. ;-)
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-03 21:21

After years of working with setup not getting near my Sondek’s performance I would like to show how close my cd playback has come to vinyl now.

Try this:

Listen to my first clip

Link removed.

Turn volume one notch down

and listen to my second clip

Link removed.

My theory has been that “disharmonic” vibrations ruin it for the digital playback. What do you think?
Last edited by beck on 2020-07-05 16:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-07-04 06:50

Sounds good and they're pretty close.
It could be the mastering that's the cause of the difference.
  • Are you using the new third generation Silver Analogue Interconnect?
  • Have you tried (if possible) turning off the front panel display?
  • Have you tried to put something under the cables that touches the floor, like a sit pad or maybe felt?
Any of these points can improve the music even more.

Picture of sit pads https://productimages.biltema.com/v1/Im ... 00034106/1
Last edited by Whatsmynaim on 2020-07-04 11:28, edited 1 time in total.

beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-04 07:25

Thank you for the suggestions and picture.

I use my old Linn blacks (could try the silvers). I am trying to find out how important setup is so I will use the old cables not changing hardware for as long as it takes.

Turning off the front panel display is a good idea. I may have a look inside again.

Yes, it has all been about trying anything and everything (and it never ends). Depending on ones room (floor) experimenting with support for cables and equipment can provide improvement that brings more music to the listener.

It can however also easily ruin the music so to rephrase a Ron The Mon quote:

Tune dem is king, source first is queen and setup is the joker! :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2020-07-04 11:10

Well done, beck! Your CD player sounds really good.

Re: “disharmonic vibration”. I agree, and would say that inharmonicity is at the root of ALL poorly performing systems. I’d even go further and say that harmonicity is essential for life! Without harmonicity, there is nothing (ie pre Big Bang), and this is why we find disharmony uncomfortable.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-07-04 12:04

It could be disharmonic vibrations, or that everything in the system including the cables
needs to be in a relaxed state (not Minnesota) before the music can really flow?!
I'm not smart enough to go further on that.

About turning the front panel display off. It's usually a button on the remote, the player or a settings menu somewhere.
If you have to open the player and pulling a cable ..well that could work too.

beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-04 13:17

Spannko wrote:
2020-07-04 11:10

Re: “disharmonic vibration”. I agree, and would say that inharmonicity is at the root of ALL poorly performing systems. I’d even go further and say that harmonicity is essential for life! Without harmonicity, there is nothing (ie pre Big Bang), and this is why we find disharmony uncomfortable.
I like you line of thinking. :-)
Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-07-04 12:04
It could be disharmonic vibrations, or that everything in the system including the cables
needs to be in a relaxed state (not Minnesota) before the music can really flow?!
I'm not smart enough to go further on that.
“ Relaxed state ” might be the best way for a system to cope with the vibrations in the room letting the music signal come through “intact”?
Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-07-04 12:04

About turning the front panel display off. It's usually a button on the remote, the player or a settings menu somewhere.
If you have to open the player and pulling a cable ..well that could work too.
My cd player is an inexpensive old relic (NAD C542) so pulling a cable is the only option. :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2020-07-04 17:54

I’ve just remembered that detecting inharmonicity “appears” to be an innate sense. It’s something nearly everyone can do from an early age, but it’s not yet known if we are born with the ability or we learn it very quickly. It may also be a consequence of the way our inner ear works. I think it’s primarily intended to aid survival, but fortunately, it enables us to perform Tune Dem.

One thing which puzzles me is that we only need to look at the faces of the “****** Got Talent” audience when the tuneless contestants let rip to know that everyone naturally understands the concept of tune, yet ask an “audiophile” and they deny that the concept even exists!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-04 18:19

Spannko wrote:
2020-07-04 17:54
I’ve just remembered that detecting inharmonicity “appears” to be an innate sense. It’s something nearly everyone can do from an early age, but it’s not yet known if we are born with the ability or we learn it very quickly. It may also be a consequence of the way our inner ear works. I think it’s primarily intended to aid survival, but fortunately, it enables us to perform Tune Dem.

One thing which puzzles me is that we only need to look at the faces of the “****** Got Talent” audience when the tuneless contestants let rip to know that everyone naturally understands the concept of tune, yet ask an “audiophile” and they deny that the concept even exists!
You really write some interesting posts Spannko.

The “audiophile” world has it’s own logic.

We are trying to bring the recorded music back to the real world. ;-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-07-04 23:12

That NAD player is always sounding good after all the effort you put in. It does seem closer to the LP12 than I recall. We don't want you getting it too close though beck! 😁
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2020-07-05 09:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2020-07-05 01:01

beck wrote:
2020-07-04 18:19
Spannko wrote:
2020-07-04 17:54
I’ve just remembered that detecting inharmonicity “appears” to be an innate sense. It’s something nearly everyone can do from an early age, but it’s not yet known if we are born with the ability or we learn it very quickly. It may also be a consequence of the way our inner ear works. I think it’s primarily intended to aid survival, but fortunately, it enables us to perform Tune Dem.

One thing which puzzles me is that we only need to look at the faces of the “****** Got Talent” audience when the tuneless contestants let rip to know that everyone naturally understands the concept of tune, yet ask an “audiophile” and they deny that the concept even exists!
You really write some interesting posts Spannko.
Thanks beck 👍

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2020-07-05 11:04

good comparison and I am impressed how good your CD Player sounds in comparison to the LP12 - all your efforts payed out - thats great to hear

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-05 16:55

Thank you to all for listening. The links will be removed but the investigation will continue.....

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Whatsmynaim » 2020-07-05 18:30

I'm in the same boat as in still listening to CD quite often, so it's fun to see how far you can reach
before any limitations of the player and the media will put up a brick wall.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-05 18:41

Whatsmynaim wrote:
2020-07-05 18:30
I'm in the same boat as in still listening to CD quite often, so it's fun to see how far you can reach
before any limitations of the player and the media brings up a brick wall.
I like to torture myself a little. :-)

I had a cd player that produced something I would not call music at all. I took it on to make it enjoyable in my system.
I nearly gave up several times along the way but something always came to my rescue. Now I have a cd based system I fully enjoy.

Coming from a Sondek/Klyde system I really loved it was not a given.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt » 2020-07-10 10:53

Cable comparison!
Microconnect vs Blue jeans cables between Hakai->Switch->Nas

1:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g4syaac3qxuq ... 8.mov?dl=0

2:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pw3w53q9fqzo ... 1.mov?dl=0

/Kallesprätt

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-07-10 11:01

Great kallesprätt!

This is this first time I listen to your digital setup and fully get into the music. I think you can guess my preferred clip.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt » 2020-07-10 11:06

beck wrote:
2020-07-10 11:01
Great kallesprätt!

This is this first time I listen to your digital setup and fully get into the music. I think you can guess my preferred clip.
I guess so :)
It´s crazy what a pair of cables can do!

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