Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-02-15 10:45

beck wrote:
2020-02-14 21:54
I changed my lk100 power cord to an old volex I had lying around from my Linn Pretek.

Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ec5b5ha1letbl ... 6.mov?dl=0

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9931szhw117y0 ... 9.mov?dl=0


Friday bonus party track:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/75b373n639xw7 ... 4.mov?dl=0

:-)
I choose Friday Bonus Truck ... turn me beck meeeeny years ... :))) ... or Friday after work party ... :)))

After for me it's better ...
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by OscarH » 2020-02-15 11:48

beck wrote:
2020-02-15 09:26

Another thing: using the clips as guiding line my system has only improved it’s ability to play music.

In short: it works! :-)
That’s reassuring.

With all the discussion about the extraordinary complexity of good digital reproduction I just wondered if the possibility of a “false positive” using clips had been considered. This does not appear to be a significant issue, so can be considered a side track on my part.

I’ll need to work on recording clips - so far my attempts have been less conclusive that listening in the room.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-02-15 12:27

OscarH wrote:
2020-02-15 11:48
beck wrote:
2020-02-15 09:26

Another thing: using the clips as guiding line my system has only improved it’s ability to play music.

In short: it works! :-)
That’s reassuring.

With all the discussion about the extraordinary complexity of good digital reproduction I just wondered if the possibility of a “false positive” using clips had been considered. This does not appear to be a significant issue, so can be considered a side track on my part.

I’ll need to work on recording clips - so far my attempts have been less conclusive that listening in the room.
Interesting ... for me here are 2 questions ... OscarH GREAT ...

1st: Recording ... in direction of standardization ... Here can help a lot Mr. Lejonklou ... he posted here (I can't find where) several think for adjusting phone or pad / tablet ... it will be good to quote it and / or pin thous equipment and adjustment here ...
Equipment used for recording iPhone, iPad or other ... which model ...
Mode of the iPhone (for example): Air - Plane mode, all apps off, e.t.c.
Headphones ...

2nd: It's not intention to "copy room sound", but to make "difference of two clips, A and B ..." with standardized recording and than everybody will know what we are listening ... and to evaluate with Tune Method better one ...

Maybe I'm wrong ... a don't know, please add ... criticize my opinion and use as starting point, in direction to come to higher quality of the issue and to improve it ...
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-02-15 14:42

V.A.MKD wrote:
2020-02-15 12:27
It's not intention to "copy room sound", but to make "difference of two clips, A and B ..." with standardized recording and than everybody will know what we are listening ... and to evaluate with Tune Method better one .
I agree. That's where it's so useful. We can start to imagine what it would be like in the room with experience of listening to many clips, but that's not the purpose behind sharing clips on this thread.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-02-15 16:27

beck wrote:
2020-02-14 21:54
I changed my lk100 power cord to an old volex I had lying around from my Linn Pretek.

Before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ec5b5ha1letbl ... 6.mov?dl=0

After: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9931szhw117y0 ... 9.mov?dl=0


Friday bonus party track:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/75b373n639xw7 ... 4.mov?dl=0

:-)
I definitely prefer after, it's like you are shining a light on the music. ;-)
But aren't they both Friday party tracks?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-02-15 16:34

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-02-15 16:27
I definitely prefer after, it's like you are shining a light on the music. ;-)
But aren't they both Friday party tracks?
Yes, you are right Thomas :-). I really like what I am getting from my cd player and with a great second hand store near by it is a plessure to seek out cd’s from the past that I did not get on vinyl and some dublicates.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-02-15 16:47

El Mero Mero wrote:
2020-02-14 21:54
Hello ThomasOK! Can you please record some more dynamic music like rock or punk? I am curious to hear how those Quad ESL handle that kind of music. I usually don't listen to a single guitar or base without vocals. That kind of music is a little "hifi-show" to me.
That will be coming - somewhat (I'm not a big punk fan). Most of the tracks I put up are flow of consciousness, meaning I use whatever I happen to be listening to at the time. The previous set of tracks were rock, but no vocals and admittedly not the most powerful.

In my little off time I am listening to various albums to sort out what I want to bring to the Axpona show, so I guess in one sense you could call it show music. However, I avoid "audiophile" recordings so you won't hear the typical Dianna Krall, Nils Lofgren "Keith Don't Go", etc. Although I do bring Holly Cole "Temptation", the 45RPM of Satchmo doing "St. James Infirmary" and others because they are really good music. But I bring a very wide range of music, surprising many with a good selection of classical albums, and have received many comments at each show of having the best musical taste of any room there. So I am trying to find time to go through some of the albums I have brought in the past and some new things and I stumbled on the Fleetwood Mac used in the first cable clips and the bluegrass one I used for the latest set. Both of those will be going to the show, although I wouldn't classify them as "show" music myself.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by markiteight » 2020-02-15 22:03

OscarH wrote:
2020-02-15 09:00
Whilst acknowledging that the hierarchy does place the cables in question very high, one can’t help but wonder whether the effect would be the same with less refined/revelatory downstream components and setup. I mean, most would probably agree that either of the two clips are in fact very good.
I posed this question to ThomasOK a few days ago and he told me that he believes the degree of change will be about the same regardless of the system's overall performance. His system went from "exceptional" to "really quite exceptional", whereas a system like mine might go from "good" to "really quite good." We will find out soon enough.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-02-16 10:11

To those who really do not get what we are doing here I would like to bring a warning.

You might end up listening to something like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv5wctn5c1lsm ... 9.mov?dl=0

Watch out Spannko. I have my eyes on you! ;-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-02-16 17:40

Superb!

Next time u make a change, can we have this for the comparison please 😁

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-02-16 18:17

Charlie1 wrote:
2020-02-16 17:40
Superb!

Next time u make a change, can we have this for the comparison please 😁
You are absolutely right.

I am not there yet. Some of the cows definately needs some tuning! :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-02-16 18:19

beck wrote:
2020-02-16 18:17
Charlie1 wrote:
2020-02-16 17:40
Superb!

Next time u make a change, can we have this for the comparison please 😁
You are absolutely right.

I am not there yet. Some of the cows definately needs some tuning! :-)
Great!

Please, post it in "Playlist" or "Latest Records to ..." so we can buy it with catalogue number and ... to have for most demanding Clips comparison. :-)))
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2020-02-16 20:15

I had the pleasure to be at a concert of a very shy nordic woman. She was very outspoken this evening so I think she also had some fun. She has a very wonderful voice but hear for yourself:

so in the end what is more in tune:
Clip 1 Becks Muh Muh song?
Clip 2 Becks get the car started song
Clip 3 a wonderful nordic voice

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddienkbxlw7qe ... 9.mov?dl=0

unfortunately my battery was at the end so I couldn’t record the complete song for you
Last edited by Defender on 2020-02-16 21:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-02-16 20:26

There is something wrong with my clip or my system if you think it was a car starting! :-)

But anyway your clip wins. Lovely voice and music.

A great reminder to us all to get out and hear live music. As a music teacher I get to hear live music every day.

My last concert was Mahlers 5. symfony with a “lovely” tragic opening trumpet.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2020-02-16 21:36

Nice clip Defender!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-02-16 22:39

Defender wrote:
2020-02-16 20:15
I had the pleasure to be at a concert of a very shy nordic woman. She was very outspoken this evening so I think she also had some fun. She has a very wonderful voice but hear for yourself:

so in the end what is more in tune:
Clip 1 Becks Muh Muh song?
Clip 2 Becks get the car started song
Clip 3 a wonderful nordic voice

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddienkbxlw7qe ... 9.mov?dl=0

unfortunately my battery was at the end so I couldn’t record the complete song for you
Good concert ...
Music First ...
Vlado

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2020-02-17 01:18

beck wrote:
2020-02-16 18:17
.. Some of the cows definately needs some tuning! :-)
I 'herd' that tuning cows to improve the moosic can be an udder pain ;)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by OscarH » 2020-02-17 09:23

tokenbrit wrote:
2020-02-17 01:18
beck wrote:
2020-02-16 18:17
.. Some of the cows definately needs some tuning! :-)
I 'herd' that tuning cows to improve the moosic can be an udder pain ;)
Interference from electrical fences is the likely cause. Roaming limitations are detrimental to digital playback.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by OscarH » 2020-02-17 09:35

markiteight wrote:
2020-02-15 22:03
OscarH wrote:
2020-02-15 09:00
Whilst acknowledging that the hierarchy does place the cables in question very high, one can’t help but wonder whether the effect would be the same with less refined/revelatory downstream components and setup. I mean, most would probably agree that either of the two clips are in fact very good.
I posed this question to ThomasOK a few days ago and he told me that he believes the degree of change will be about the same regardless of the system's overall performance. His system went from "exceptional" to "really quite exceptional", whereas a system like mine might go from "good" to "really quite good." We will find out soon enough.
Will be interesting to find out. It is genuinely amazing that, in ThomasOK's essentially perfect system, changing from the best power cord to the new best power cord (either of which represent a mere fraction of the total system cost) can indeed cause noticeable difference, for example on the vibrato in the intro (though I'm not convinced that is a Tune Method metric...).

For me personally, I don't have any replaceable power cords on my analog source (Rega 24V wall wart and Gaio 2.4), so the integrated amp is the first possible point of upgrade.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by OscarH » 2020-02-18 10:28

Alright, let’s see how this goes.

Gaio 2 vs Gaio 2.4. For logistics reasons there are a couple of weeks between recording the clips.

Everything else is, as far as possible, kept the same although filling level and positioning of fruit basket and wine glass is a variation we’ll have to accept.

They’re called A and B... let’s hope people agree 2.4 is better... (no I haven’t explicitly stated whether that’s A or B)

Still not entirely happy with my recordings... noisy and less balanced than the room impression, but that’s life for now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74eop7o7xczm ... el8-a?dl=0

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2020-02-18 10:42

Great clips OscarH.

It is easy to hear the difference and that is what counts! :-)

Both A and B are to my mind enjoyable music but B has clearly more sofisticated sound and insight into the recordings.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2020-02-18 13:22

I like B better as well.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2020-02-18 14:45

OscarH wrote:
2020-02-15 11:48
With all the discussion about the extraordinary complexity of good digital reproduction I just wondered if the possibility of a “false positive” using clips had been considered. This does not appear to be a significant issue, so can be considered a side track on my part.
By “false positive” I’m assuming you really mean that we’re imagining improvements which don’t really exist?

Well, I think there’s a good possibility that this happens on a regular basis. We’re only human, after all, and didn’t somebody once say that to err is human?

However, what is often not considered is that our biased opinions are malleable and ripe for modification, based upon our most recent experiences. Continued evaluation using our preferred evaluation criteria will soon weed out our errors of judgement.

The most important thing, to ensure accurate decision making, is to be consistent in our use of a musically related evaluation tool.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD » 2020-02-18 15:16

OscarH wrote:
2020-02-18 10:28
Alright, let’s see how this goes.

Gaio 2 vs Gaio 2.4. For logistics reasons there are a couple of weeks between recording the clips.

Everything else is, as far as possible, kept the same although filling level and positioning of fruit basket and wine glass is a variation we’ll have to accept.

They’re called A and B... let’s hope people agree 2.4 is better... (no I haven’t explicitly stated whether that’s A or B)

Still not entirely happy with my recordings... noisy and less balanced than the room impression, but that’s life for now.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/74eop7o7xczm ... el8-a?dl=0
Hi OscarH,
I used Tune Method on A2B2 and A3B3.
Honestly I don't decide what is better ... both are musical ...
On A2/3 sounds like acoustics is changed and sounds like "empty" room ...

Fruit and Vine are not that critical factor ... :-)

I will repeat TM again later ...
Music First ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by OscarH » 2020-02-18 15:28

V.A.MKD wrote:
2020-02-18 15:16

On A2/3 sounds like acoustics is changed and sounds like "empty" room ...
Do you mean it changes between A2 and A3? I just checked the time stamps and all "A" clips are recorded within a 12 minute time span. The kids were asleep and the wife not home. I only moved between the sofa and the turntable so there shouldn't be any difference in acoustics between A2 and A3.

But, as it might be possible to see from the reflection in the window, the room is quite large behind the listening position so there can indeed be smaller changes there, such as more or less stuff lying around, between the A and B clips.

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