Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Defender
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-09 06:34

Spannko wrote:
2019-10-08 23:00
By now, I really shouldn’t be surprised by any differences I hear, but the network switch comparison has caught me off guard. How can something like a switch make so much difference? It’s crazy!

It’s also quite disheartening that the Cisco has generated such a following because I wouldn’t mind betting that the damage it does to the musicality would be irreparable by even the best NAS’s and streamers.

The 108T, on the other hand, still holds the title for “Most Musical Switch”
here is what I will do tomorrow as I dont have time for it today. I will put the Cisco back in in the morning let it run so we are sure its completely warmed through. I will set it on a base properly and provide 3 clips one Netgear one Cisco normal polarity and one reversed polarity so we are sure whats happening here.

I have a Gigabit version of the switch (Catalyst 2960G) - there is also the 100M/bit version (Catalyst 2960) and some say that one is the only one which is outstanding.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-10-09 14:50

Defender wrote:
2019-10-09 06:23
.. for more chances to hear the polarity change for the NAS...
Order was kept the same.
So people who liked the polarity on the first check in clip #1 better should like the same polarity in the second test again with clip #1
Haha, and you were leaning the other way this time... I'm ok being the poster child for 'how not to' :) Thanks for the second chance ;)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-10-09 16:50

@ Defender: Much appreciated your switch comparison. Like most here, I preferred the Netgear in the clips (not quite as clear, but musically more satisfying). Which power cable do you use for the Cisco? I use a Lejonklou Power One, which is much better than a standard cable. Is the 108T using a Friwo power supply?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-09 21:08

Hi Tendaberry,
I think we both had a chat about the Cisco switch already. Your one if I remember it right is the 2960 10/100bit and not the Gigabit switch which I have - both almost look the same but name is 2960G for the Gigabit version. The 2960 10/100bit is the one the guys over at the Naim forum rave about (your one).

We also talked about power cables that time thats why I used a Longwell from 2011 with text.

As I said I will let it play for 24h and set it on a proper base but I have no better power cable than the one I used already.

Yes the Netgear GS 108T was used with the Friwo MPP 15 power supply.

So still maybe an advantage for the GS108T but lets see tomorrow.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-10 15:47

So lets find out what a warmed up Cisco can do. To make it more structured for friends who comment later on the different sets of comparisons there have been 3 sets of comparisons so far.

1st stet was about different polarity of the power supply to the NAS
2nd set was about Cisco 2960G vs. Netgear GS108T switch
3rd set was again same test as 1st set polarity of power to the NAS same order just different music

this is the 4th set

#1 Cisco 2960G normal polarity https://www.dropbox.com/s/e885gg591gwa ... 5.mov?dl=0
#2 Cisco 2960G reversed polarity https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hyja1rinriu ... 4.mov?dl=0
#3 Netgear GS108T https://www.dropbox.com/s/8zbkebw8qwoh ... 5.mov?dl=0

if you refer to the set you commenting to we dont get confused

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-10-10 16:15

Set 4: still the Netgear for me, thanks - it's a relief to listen to the 108T after the 2960s...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-10-10 17:18

Yep, I definitely prefer the 108T. Clip 1 with normal polarity on the Cisco is better than the reversed polarity of clip 2, but both pale compared to clip 3.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-10-10 17:39

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-10-10 17:18
Yep, I definitely prefer the 108T. Clip 1 with normal polarity on the Cisco is better than the reversed polarity of clip 2, but both pale compared to clip 3.
Same for me.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-10 22:48

thank you all for your contribution and I hope someone with the other version of the Cisco can compare it to an Netgear GS108T so we are sure we are not missing out something with the Cisco 2960

I still wonder why I was tending more to #2 in the 3rd set of comparison (NAS polarity) maybe I was trapped with the additional details as Thomas said - means I need more practice on tune dem.

Thank you for the idea with the playground.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-10-10 23:10

What about even older Cisco switches, assuming you don’t need gig speed? 2950s must be cheap and aplenty. Or there’s even older ones like 2940/2900 Series.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-12 09:20

sure we can also test older Cisco switches. I thought testing the 2960 because that model got high rates from Naim users. However I ended up having accidentally buying the 2960G so I hoped it is also good.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-14 19:47

another try to annoy you with the colored pillow in front of the TV

round 5

A https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hgqnn8feabi ... 9.mov?dl=0
or
B https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtogbo4meprg ... 9.mov?dl=0

what flows better?

its not about a change in the system it is about different recording methods - I will explain later - both files are 16bit 44kHz

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-10-14 22:43

First clip (a) makes a lot more sense to me.

I'm amazed that recording the same resolution differently makes that much difference.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-15 18:38

thats what I hoped :)

Clip A is a DMM-CD/SACD (Direct Metal Mastering)
What was done is they took the analog signal from a cartridge after cutting a copper master and created a DSD digital signal from the analog signal. I played the 16bit/44kHz version to keep it equal as much as possible.
Clip B is the CD without going trough a turntable

you can see the process description at www.stockfish-records.de

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-10-16 20:41

I definitely prefer clip a, clip be makes me furrow my brow as I try to figure out what is wrong with that guitar!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender » 2019-10-16 21:32

the question which I ask myself and cant answer is:

in clip B they just use what they have (either already a digital recording or an analog master tape) and create the 16bit 44kHz signal for the CD

in clip A the process makes a detour with cutting a copper plate, read it with a cartridge, do analog to digital conversion (DSD) and than create the 16bit 44kHz signal for the CD

how can a detour through a turntable make it sound better?
Maybe the mastering was better in clip A - I dont know.
Maybe their technology for the conversion to digital got better.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-10-16 23:56

I would assume if they went through that complicated process they did so in order to make a more musical product. I haven't read the article yet but I would also think this would be something used with analog masters. Either way, one does not know the quality of mastering put into the original CD master - it could be far inferior.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2019-10-20 14:32

Sunday, no real energy to do anything but still want to do something. Recon the feeling?
So why not just swamp amp for a day?
Lets do Nait-sunday :)
https://maffe.smugmug.com/Film/n-H2MXxp/i-27TdgNK/A

Apparently I was not alone in the house playing on a Nait :P
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-L9T ... g-1280.mp4

Back to the music!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-10-20 16:48

Maffe, who is filming and what have you done to your hair? :-)

I like your Nait sunday. Relaxing and pleasureful.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2019-10-20 17:04

beck wrote:
2019-10-20 16:48
Maffe, who is filming and what have you done to your hair? :-)

I like your Nait sunday. Relaxing and pleasureful.
The cat made me do it ;)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-10-20 17:59

Thanks for sharing Maffe. First time I've heard Akudoriks driven by a Nait. It seems to drive them better than I would have expected.

So do you prefer Nait 1 or 2? That appears to be a 2 in the other video...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2019-10-20 20:30

Just a spontaneous answer with little to back it up with, Nait 1. Guess I have to make some clips at some point.

Nait 1
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v3k ... b-1280.mp4
Lejonklou
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tVp ... V-1280.mp4

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-10-21 09:05

Well Maffe, the sad thing is that you do not need to search for any improvements to your system to enjoy music! :-)

Just plug in the amp you are in the mood to use and sit back.....

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by maffe » 2019-10-21 13:09

beck wrote:
2019-10-21 09:05

Just plug in the amp you are in the mood to use and sit back.....
Guess that’s the ultimate test, how much music do you listen to. This weekend we played some 20-25 records on the LP12, did not feel the urge to compare amps just play more music as usual!
That said, a mayor source upgrade on the way in a few weeks ;)
Until then I’ll just keep enjoying listening to music

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by El Mero Mero » 2019-10-21 20:22

maffe wrote:
2019-10-20 20:30
Just a spontaneous answer with little to back it up with, Nait 1. Guess I have to make some clips at some point.

Nait 1
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-v3k ... b-1280.mp4
Lejonklou
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tVp ... V-1280.mp4
Those files are really interesting. Please tell us what Lejonklou products you use in the second clip.

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