Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-09-12 19:52

Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
Ron The Mon wrote:
2019-09-12 18:36

Just (dog) food for thought.

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I was doing what I like to do best: trying to make this a cheerful place to be. What I like about this forum is the feeling of understanding and common interest.

People are welcome to do what they like (following the forum rules and not hurting others) and I do find some of the changes you make funny!

I do not take myself too serious. I know that what I have started came by pure chance just as so many of the other things I do in my daily life. :-)

So just go for it Ron! I do not mind. :-)

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Let's Play!

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-09-12 20:25

beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
So just go for it Ron! I do not mind. :-)
You're going to regret writing that.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-09-12 20:26

:-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-12 22:38

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-09-12 19:35
By the way, is your record with the tracking problem at the end of the last cut one you bought used? I ask because I have found it not uncommon to find used records with groove damage on the last cut. Much of it probably comes from these records being played on record changers where the end of record arm lift mechanism was putting enough drag on the arm to cause groove damage. I have seen it several times. The worst was a supposedly "excellent" 2nd pressing In the Court of the Crimson King record I bought on eBay. The last two to three minutes on both sides has a loud screech engraved into the music. Luckily I eventually found a better 2nd pressing and then the most desirable 1st pressing which is very clean.
The same thought had occured to me recently. Most of my LPs are second hand. I don't buy many new releases and don't buy any re-issues. I suppose the only way to be sure is to buy a few more Barry LPs and compare them :(
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-09-13 08:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-12 22:39

beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-13 13:09

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-12 22:39
beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.
I kept seeing a panther. Very scary!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-09-13 16:05

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-12 22:39
beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.
Same system I have used for other recent clips. The pure dual mono Quad setup without subwoofer: Klimax LP12, SINGularity L&R MC phono stages, SM 1.4s, TM2.2s, 61 year old Quad ESL. Completely separate ground plane for each channel as we had it at the show. You only see the two lights of the left TM because the right one is blocked by the right speaker. I just felt like putting another piece of music up.

Hearing the system like this does cause a dilemma. If you connect anything else up to the system, a streamer, a CD player, a subwoofer crossover, etc. you reconnect the left and right grounds and could cause a loss of musical quality. I haven't tested this yet but intend to by plugging something in and seeing if there is a musical loss. If there is then what to do? Build two HAKAI, one for each channel and sync them? Get two subwoofers, two TMs and two crossovers? I barely have room for the one subwoofer I have, seeing as it is that monster JBL box, not to mention the problem of providing rack space for all of it.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:49

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-10 10:49
OK, I've taken some 'brave' pills and done a couple of clips. Thought I'd broken the pin under the K9 body at one point but it all seems ok. I love what LP12s do but I HATE doing anything to them. Also found a slightly better/safer way of removing it.

This is the low wear K9 so not sure you really hear proper distortion at the end of the track the way I did on the previous K9 stylus. It's more of a compression to the sound and a screechiness - a bit like Kan 1s can sometimes sound.

Also used the stylus gauge as I'm not sure the tracking force dial is working 100% on the Ittok.
K9: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyuop7bfg9hn7 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
ML: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6p8za2r0wbci ... 0.MOV?dl=0

Sorry about the music choice but it's in a good cause and quite an apt title.

They are much closer to my ears now and I'm properly enjoying music with the ML for the first time - it seems to have cleared some threshold for enjoyment. The K9 still makes a bit more sense of it all but this is still great fun. VM95E on order.
K9, for me - better rhythmically, much more expressive and engaging, IMO.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:53

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-11 18:43

SNIP

VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5oh57zis3w470 ... 6.MOV?dl=0

Personally, I think the break up of the vocals at the end of the clip is more noticeable on the 95E.

New track if that helps compare the two AT carts:
VMN95ML: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4yc00ytzj26m ... 4.MOV?dl=0
VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0945scqhunm7r ... 5.MOV?dl=0
By quite a margin, E.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:59

Also, I preferred the Nait to the Nait 2 (remember those comparisons?!), but I wonder if the Nait 2 has more to offer, once it fully runs in post-service?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-18 14:06

Thanks for feeding back your impressions AlbannachFE !

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-18 14:13

New VM95 clips below.

VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ae7l0cq3ri46y ... 2.MOV?dl=0
VM95EN: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wrg0gx1fg2j1 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
VM95C: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ekb2b6clis8g8 ... 3.MOV?dl=0

They all have different anti-skate settings thanks to the video beck posted in the other thread. 95E is 0.4, 95C is 0.5 and 95EN is 0.8.

The 95E has an advantage in that it's been worn in. The new ones have an hour each.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-09-18 14:27, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-09-18 14:26

Exciting, thanks Charlie!

You seem to have the letters wrong on the anti-skating. E, N and NE?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-18 14:27

I was just amending as you posted :)

I'm beginning to think the K9 boosts the low end a bit and creates a nice synergy with the Valhalla/Ittok deck. That's not much help to me now though :(

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-19 10:16

Actions speak louder than words and I am back to the E.

The EN sounds better but is too boring.

The C has better timing but misses too much meaning in the vocals, possibly through lack of information coming through.

Kind of pleased and disappointed at the same time.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-09-19 10:54

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-18 14:13
New VM95 clips below.

VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ae7l0cq3ri46y ... 2.MOV?dl=0
VM95EN: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0wrg0gx1fg2j1 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
VM95C: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ekb2b6clis8g8 ... 3.MOV?dl=0

They all have different anti-skate settings thanks to the video beck posted in the other thread. 95E is 0.4, 95C is 0.5 and 95EN is 0.8.

The 95E has an advantage in that it's been worn in. The new ones have an hour each.
I think E is the best one.

There's something not entirely convincing about EN. I'm not sure what you mean by "sounds better but is too boring ", as it seems to be a contradiction. The EN appears polite and a little shy.

C is not bad. Like a rougher version of E.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-19 15:00

lejonklou wrote:
2019-09-19 10:54
I think E is the best one.
I was hoping another member with Adikt would get a VM95E but doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon.

If you happen to compare them anytime then would be great to know what you think.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-09-19 19:18

I'm having a hard time between the E and the C. I do find the EN a bit less interesting than the other two.

Now what you need to do is forget about that questionable way of setting anti-skating, set the E by ear and then set all three the same and test them again.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-19 21:26

Sorry guys. I know I’m in the minority here, but so far my opinion of the 95’s is that they’re all pants and that none of them can bang out a decent choon. They might be ok for £40+, but that’s just about it. I think that I can confidently say that all of our expectations are for something considerably better. A knackered K9, with all its distortions, is much more enjoyable to listen to, so let’s have an end to all this 95 nonsense and look for something better! Half lol, half serious!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-19 22:48

Have you ever compared a K9 to the Adikt Spannko?

I am slightly wary that my old Valhalla/Ittok deck was voiced for a lively up and at 'em AT cart.

I do know what you mean to some extent, about the new AT carts. The K9 just seems very 'right'. If i had the option to get buying new K9s then that would definitely be my preference.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-09-19 23:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-19 22:52

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-09-19 19:18
Now what you need to do is forget about that questionable way of setting anti-skating, set the E by ear and then set all three the same and test them again.
I suppose so

...but I'm away for a bit now.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-20 13:15

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-19 22:48
Have you ever compared a K9 to the Adikt Spannko?

I am slightly wary that my old Valhalla/Ittok deck was voiced for a lively up and at 'em AT cart.

I do know what you mean to some extent, about the new AT carts. The K9 just seems very 'right'. If i had the option to get buying new K9s then that would definitely be my preference.
I haven’t, but I’m sure it would be an interesting comparison.

I’m sure I’ve got a K9 body and stylus somewhere. I could dig it out and send it to you if you’d like to try another K9 stylus.

Has anyone tried the cheapest Ortofon mm? My dealer likes it and it seems to be the most musical of the range going by YouTube comparisons.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-09-20 15:22

If we are talking about the Ortofon Red I cannot follow your dealer at all. It may be the most musical Ortofon mm cart but even the old AT95 was more musically satisfying....

I feel a dealer breathing down your neck Spannko! :-)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-20 18:04

beck wrote:
2019-09-20 15:22
If we are talking about the Ortofon Red I cannot follow your dealer at all. It may be the most musical Ortofon mm cart but even the old AT95 was more musically satisfying....

I feel a dealer breathing down your neck Spannko! :-)
Ha ha! Thanks beck. There’s another one crossed off the list then.

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Apple vs. Pineapple

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-10-02 05:11

Please remember Charlie1 is not comparing the new AT-VM95E (or C or EN or ML) to a Linn K9. He is only comparing the "VMN" versions, meaning stylus-only on a Linn K-9 body. He is also not entirely clear on break-in period times of the styli compared. 27 hours is the minimum break-in time needed. Anything less is unacceptable from my experience.

My position is the new AT-VM95 cartridge body is better than the Linn K9 body if the hardware is torqued properly; regardless of stylus used. My opinion is the EN (nude elliptical) sounds best, then the E (elliptical), then C (conical). Concerning tune-dem, they are roughly equivalent; the difference is in hi-fi terms. The "Conical" is the best value.

Using source-first principles, the cartridge body is more important than the stylus.

I will be posting torque comparison videos on the dedicated thread. Stay tuned.

Ron the Mon

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