Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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beck
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-09-12 19:52

Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
Ron The Mon wrote:
2019-09-12 18:36

Just (dog) food for thought.

Ron The Mon
I was doing what I like to do best: trying to make this a cheerful place to be. What I like about this forum is the feeling of understanding and common interest.

People are welcome to do what they like (following the forum rules and not hurting others) and I do find some of the changes you make funny!

I do not take myself too serious. I know that what I have started came by pure chance just as so many of the other things I do in my daily life. :-)

So just go for it Ron! I do not mind. :-)
............in our thoughts.............

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Let's Play!

Post by Ron The Mon » 2019-09-12 20:25

beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
So just go for it Ron! I do not mind. :-)
You're going to regret writing that.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-09-12 20:26

:-)
............in our thoughts.............

Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-12 22:38

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-09-12 19:35
By the way, is your record with the tracking problem at the end of the last cut one you bought used? I ask because I have found it not uncommon to find used records with groove damage on the last cut. Much of it probably comes from these records being played on record changers where the end of record arm lift mechanism was putting enough drag on the arm to cause groove damage. I have seen it several times. The worst was a supposedly "excellent" 2nd pressing In the Court of the Crimson King record I bought on eBay. The last two to three minutes on both sides has a loud screech engraved into the music. Luckily I eventually found a better 2nd pressing and then the most desirable 1st pressing which is very clean.
The same thought had occured to me recently. Most of my LPs are second hand. I don't buy many new releases and don't buy any re-issues. I suppose the only way to be sure is to buy a few more Barry LPs and compare them :(
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-09-13 08:04, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-09-12 22:39

beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-13 13:09

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-12 22:39
beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.
I kept seeing a panther. Very scary!

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-09-13 16:05

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-12 22:39
beck wrote:
2019-09-12 19:52
Lovely music Thomas.

It is actually a shame that we cannot see the system (unless you are hiding something!).
+1
I too was wondering what lurked behind the black beast with blue eyes.
Same system I have used for other recent clips. The pure dual mono Quad setup without subwoofer: Klimax LP12, SINGularity L&R MC phono stages, SM 1.4s, TM2.2s, 61 year old Quad ESL. Completely separate ground plane for each channel as we had it at the show. You only see the two lights of the left TM because the right one is blocked by the right speaker. I just felt like putting another piece of music up.

Hearing the system like this does cause a dilemma. If you connect anything else up to the system, a streamer, a CD player, a subwoofer crossover, etc. you reconnect the left and right grounds and could cause a loss of musical quality. I haven't tested this yet but intend to by plugging something in and seeing if there is a musical loss. If there is then what to do? Build two HAKAI, one for each channel and sync them? Get two subwoofers, two TMs and two crossovers? I barely have room for the one subwoofer I have, seeing as it is that monster JBL box, not to mention the problem of providing rack space for all of it.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-13 17:11

Thomas, I’m interested in how you achieve “completely separate ground plane(s) for each channel”, and where the connection is finally made? (Unless they’re fully floating, if that’s the correct term).

As you know, I’ve been fettling with mains wiring for the past 18 months and my latest hypothesis is that there may be advantages in ensuring that not only the equipment grounds, but also the safety earth and/or the live’s and neutral’s are as electrically separated as possible PROVIDED none of the equipment grounds are connected via an Interconnect (which would introduce an earth loop). One advantage of this approach is that each component can have a power cable and/or flex optimised in accordance with its current requirements too.

Unfortunately, this approach rules out 99% of hifi on the market, but for high end systems it might be worth investigating further.
Last edited by Spannko on 2019-09-14 14:19, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-09-13 17:44

Completely separate grounds for the left and right channel means that the only place the grounds of the two channels come together is at the AC power strip or the wall.

Even equipment that is dual mono in construction normally has the left and right signal grounds connected together. This is easily tested by checking for continuity between the two grounds with a VOM. With my current system you have separate left and right grounds in the cartridge, phono stages, preamps, power amps and speakers. So the grounds only come together at the power strip.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-09-13 19:35

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-09-13 17:44
Completely separate grounds for the left and right channel means that the only place the grounds of the two channels come together is at the AC power strip or the wall.

Even equipment that is dual mono in construction normally has the left and right signal grounds connected together. This is easily tested by checking for continuity between the two grounds with a VOM. With my current system you have separate left and right grounds in the cartridge, phono stages, preamps, power amps and speakers. So the grounds only come together at the power strip.
Since you’ve found that distancing the point at which the components talk to one another to be beneficial (or is it, argue/fight with one another? Or to put a more technical slant on it, modulate one another) what do you think about taking the connection nearer to Mother Earth by connecting at the consumer unit/service panel?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:49

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-10 10:49
OK, I've taken some 'brave' pills and done a couple of clips. Thought I'd broken the pin under the K9 body at one point but it all seems ok. I love what LP12s do but I HATE doing anything to them. Also found a slightly better/safer way of removing it.

This is the low wear K9 so not sure you really hear proper distortion at the end of the track the way I did on the previous K9 stylus. It's more of a compression to the sound and a screechiness - a bit like Kan 1s can sometimes sound.

Also used the stylus gauge as I'm not sure the tracking force dial is working 100% on the Ittok.
K9: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gyuop7bfg9hn7 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
ML: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o6p8za2r0wbci ... 0.MOV?dl=0

Sorry about the music choice but it's in a good cause and quite an apt title.

They are much closer to my ears now and I'm properly enjoying music with the ML for the first time - it seems to have cleared some threshold for enjoyment. The K9 still makes a bit more sense of it all but this is still great fun. VM95E on order.
K9, for me - better rhythmically, much more expressive and engaging, IMO.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:53

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-09-11 18:43

SNIP

VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5oh57zis3w470 ... 6.MOV?dl=0

Personally, I think the break up of the vocals at the end of the clip is more noticeable on the 95E.

New track if that helps compare the two AT carts:
VMN95ML: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4yc00ytzj26m ... 4.MOV?dl=0
VM95E: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0945scqhunm7r ... 5.MOV?dl=0
By quite a margin, E.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-09-14 13:59

Also, I preferred the Nait to the Nait 2 (remember those comparisons?!), but I wonder if the Nait 2 has more to offer, once it fully runs in post-service?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by matthias » 2019-09-14 21:31

Spannko wrote:
2019-09-13 19:35
ThomasOK wrote:
2019-09-13 17:44
Completely separate grounds for the left and right channel means that the only place the grounds of the two channels come together is at the AC power strip or the wall.
Even equipment that is dual mono in construction normally has the left and right signal grounds connected together. This is easily tested by checking for continuity between the two grounds with a VOM. With my current system you have separate left and right grounds in the cartridge, phono stages, preamps, power amps and speakers. So the grounds only come together at the power strip.
Since you’ve found that distancing the point at which the components talk to one another to be beneficial (or is it, argue/fight with one another? Or to put a more technical slant on it, modulate one another) what do you think about taking the connection nearer to Mother Earth by connecting at the consumer unit/service panel?
+1
I wanted to post the same question, but Spannko was first:-)

Matt
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