Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

Moderator: Staff

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 08:50

I could happily live with either of these options below but wonder what folks prefer...

1. 12S unit with refurbished 32.5 boards (higher revision numbers):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9zh7dnh8ap7ga ... 6.MOV?dl=0

2. 12S unit with refurbished 32.5 MM boards only - all other boards are unserviced (rev 1)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqwn1i3apok4f ... 7.MOV?dl=0

Music doesn't flow quite as effortlessly as the red LED Nait, certainly not at low volume, and is not as nimble and transparent either. However, at any volume it adds body and maybe even more cohesive to my ears. Definitely a keeper but probably not for the office.

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1238
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-15 09:46

After downloading your clips onto my ipad and listening to them I am leaning towards clip 1.

The download has made me change my mind also regarding your previous clips.

Listening directly from the links on this page I would pick differently I think. All your latest clips are hard for me to pick a winner from.
............in our thoughts.............

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 11:08

Sorry, charlie1, but somethings not working for me. They all sound impressive, but musically, I'm struggling to get into the groove. I don't know if it's the recording or the amp's, so is it possible to hear a comparison with a nait, which I've really enjoyed previously?

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 11:45

No worries - I don't expect you or anyone to like it even if I do.

This will be interesting cos I've not compared them via clips myself yet.

Nait:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/621ktp3b48enm ... 3.MOV?dl=0

12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyr239euoun70 ... 8.MOV?dl=0

Here's something the Nait would struggle to do justice to although I fear the clips don't really convey it very well...
12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybe6xphco8l5n ... 2.MOV?dl=0

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1238
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-15 13:01

The Nait is a pearl.....
............in our thoughts.............

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 13:03

Thanks Beck - do you find the 12/160 a bit ponderous at times?

I know the over verdict was in favour of the older rosewoods but I still find the Teaks are more fun and have more rhythm...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z20612wk7ojyb ... 6.MOV?dl=0

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 13:50

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-15 13:03
Thanks Beck - do you find the 12/160 a bit ponderous at times?
I think that's what it is. They're obviously from the same mould, but the Nait just swings a little bit better.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 13:59

I wasn't sure at first but think I will get them serviced. The more I listen the more I notice slightly too much house Naim sound. I had the same problem with the red LED Nait until it was serviced. I wonder if the current Naim caps offer a slightly less in your face sound. It might loose some cohesiveness but I think on balance it might be for the best. The 160 is overdue anyway.

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 14:00

Longwell v Longwell Reversed

I picked up some Longwell cables yesterday (official Linn supplied).

Here’s a recording of exactly the same cables, with both fuses reading in the same direction, but with the text reversed on one.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/e6vnt418ue3k ... eNVga?dl=0


PS The setup is far from ideal - The speakers and NAS are using Bahoing cables running in the wrong direction and plugged into a couple of 4mm radials for the speakers and a 2.5mm radial for the NAS. If that wasn't bad enough, the Longwells are plugged into the house ring main via a 3m extension cable!However, the important thing is that only the Longwell cable direction is being changed.
Last edited by Spannko on 2019-08-15 14:14, edited 1 time in total.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 14:07

I prefer the first clip, 12.56.26. Just seems to flow better to me.

It not a big difference and yet it is a big difference when you think of the small change being made.

User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4352
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou » 2019-08-15 14:27

First clip, 12.56.26, for me too.

The sound is very crisp and clear on both clips, but the bass is somehow a little detached from the rest. As if too early. Am I the only one feeling that?

AlbannachFE
New member
New member
Posts: 5
Joined: 2017-12-09 14:43
Location: Scotland.

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by AlbannachFE » 2019-08-15 14:29

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-15 11:45
No worries - I don't expect you or anyone to like it even if I do.

This will be interesting cos I've not compared them via clips myself yet.

Nait:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/621ktp3b48enm ... 3.MOV?dl=0

12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyr239euoun70 ... 8.MOV?dl=0

Here's something the Nait would struggle to do justice to although I fear the clips don't really convey it very well...
12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybe6xphco8l5n ... 2.MOV?dl=0

12/160 for me: they offer far greater inner detail to the guitar and vocal, the latter also much more expressive than though the Nait. Also, I don't find the 12/160 ponderous; for me, it offers a more natural sense of flow to the music (though I suspect they have more to give, given their servicing status).
Last edited by AlbannachFE on 2019-08-15 14:34, edited 1 time in total.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 14:33

lejonklou wrote:
2019-08-15 14:27
The sound is very crisp and clear on both clips, but the bass is somehow a little detached from the rest. As if too early. Am I the only one feeling that?
No, I felt the same. I was surprised how much of it there was too, only being familiar with the LP.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 14:36

AlbannachFE wrote:
2019-08-15 14:29
12/160 for me: they offer far greater inner detail to the guitar and vocal, the latter also much more expressive than though the Nait. Also, I don't find the 12/160 plodding; for me, it offers a more natural sense of flow to the music (though I suspect they have more to give, given their servicing status).
Seems we share some similar preferences. The 12/160 must be doing something right for me too cos I can't help playing fav LPs and really enjoying them.

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 15:06

lejonklou wrote:
2019-08-15 14:27
First clip, 12.56.26, for me too.

The sound is very crisp and clear on both clips, but the bass is somehow a little detached from the rest. As if too early. Am I the only one feeling that?
Yes, it’s something I’ve been trying to eradicate for some while! I’m gradually getting there, but it’s quite a complex problem - or maybe I’ve made it complex, I don’t know. All but one cable being the wrong way round hasn’t helped either!

beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1238
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-08-15 15:38

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-15 14:36
AlbannachFE wrote: 12/160 for me: they offer far greater inner detail to the guitar and vocal, the latter also much more expressive than though the Nait. Also, I don't find the 12/160 plodding; for me, it offers a more natural sense of flow to the music (though I suspect they have more to give, given their servicing status).
..................cos I can't help playing fav LPs and really enjoying them.
The most important and telling comment regarding your setup Charlie1! :-)
............in our thoughts.............

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 16:17

It looks like there’s an overwhelming consensus for Longwell ‘with text’ being the preferred cable. Something with which I wholeheartedly agree!

I’ve just found a Tongyuan with the text running from wall to equipment, which I didn’t realise I had, so a Tongyuan v Longwell shootout will be along later.

User avatar
Tendaberry
Active member
Active member
Posts: 244
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-08-15 17:33

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-15 14:07
I prefer the first clip, 12.56.26. Just seems to flow better to me.

It not a big difference and yet it is a big difference when you think of the small change being made.
First clip for me too. The natural flow seems to be missing in the second one, the musicians just aren't as well in sync.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2460
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-15 20:09

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-15 11:45
No worries - I don't expect you or anyone to like it even if I do.

This will be interesting cos I've not compared them via clips myself yet.

Nait:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/621ktp3b48enm ... 3.MOV?dl=0

12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyr239euoun70 ... 8.MOV?dl=0

Here's something the Nait would struggle to do justice to although I fear the clips don't really convey it very well...
12/160 (original cards):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybe6xphco8l5n ... 2.MOV?dl=0
Actually this is in answer to several of the clips. I was a bit too jet-lagged to give them a fair listen until today. So I like the 12S better than the 32.5 in the first set of clips - clip 2 doesn't get my attention as much as 1. The music takes me back to my late 1970s Hi-Fi demoing days. Next pair I like clip 2 with the refurbed 32.5 boards better, the first clip is not as interesting. It should be noted that there was considerable variability in the Naim boards back in the day. I owned a 12S around 1983/84 and worked for the US Linn/Naim distributor. We got a batch of Naim MC K boards and listened to all of them. The owner got the best pair and I got the next best. There were substantial differences. So once you have servicing done I would listen to all the boards and pick out the best ones.

On this grouping I like the NAIT. It just gets the groove of the music going. On the 12S I can hear more of how the instruments are being played but the song just doesn't hold together as well. As to the third track and your claim, I think you're going to have to prove it! :-)
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2460
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-15 20:15

lejonklou wrote:
2019-08-15 14:27
First clip, 12.56.26, for me too.

The sound is very crisp and clear on both clips, but the bass is somehow a little detached from the rest. As if too early. Am I the only one feeling that?
Yeah, I'm digging the first one more. Not only does the bass seem a bit off in clip 2 but I also find there to be something off in the sound of the brush on the snare.
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2460
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-15 20:19

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-08-13 12:51
4-way Pro Elec mains block with 50cm lead vs 4-way Masterplug with 1m lead.

I've recently moved the main system to another wall in the same room and not really played much with speaker positioning at yet.

Currently LP12/Urika/LK Majik-i/Katans.

Masterplug: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uge0py0zb73tw ... 3.MOV?dl=0
Pro Elec: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4w9kwiqh8p5or ... 5.MOV?dl=0
Pro Elec: more Hi-Fi
Masterplug: more music
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2460
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-08-15 20:22

David Neel wrote:
2019-08-08 21:31
I've emerged for a break from my re-ripping marathon. Sorry these clips are not precisely volume-balanced.

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4yqiivnbt0w9 ... 6.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/09g9hjtch9yie ... 4.mp4?dl=0

The music is "Charleston", the first part of Erwin Schulhoff's Jazz Etuden.

Which do people prefer?
Oh yeah, I'll take the real piano in B over the toy piano in A.
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 20:39

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-08-15 20:09
The music takes me back to my late 1970s Hi-Fi demoing days.
Did you become a Zen master in undoing tiny screws at the same time by any chance? I'm getting bored of that already!

You know the sound I'm getting now is reminiscent of my parents mid-70s Akai system that I grew up with. Maybe that has somehow laid down the pathways in my brain and how I expect music to sound. Scary thought. I suppose ESL 57s came a bit later in your life so it doesn't hold true for you.
ThomasOK wrote:
2019-08-15 20:09
Next pair I like clip 2 with the refurbed 32.5 boards better, the first clip is not as interesting. It should be noted that there was considerable variability in the Naim boards back in the day. I owned a 12S around 1983/84 and worked for the US Linn/Naim distributor. We got a batch of Naim MC K boards and listened to all of them. The owner got the best pair and I got the next best. There were substantial differences. So once you have servicing done I would listen to all the boards and pick out the best ones.
I spent most of today using the older boards but was starting to notice things a bit out of tune (even for my ears). Putting the newer boards back in is definitely better in that sense and closer to the Nait. Maybe not so good in another way but I need it more tuneful than it was.

Thanks for the info - good idea on checking for best ones once all back from service.
Last edited by Charlie1 on 2019-08-15 23:09, edited 1 time in total.

Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 694
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: The Black Country

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko » 2019-08-15 21:33

Tongyuan v Longwell Power Cord

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/awpuvjl37s5j ... odnRa?dl=0

These clips are compromised, but in a different way to the previous clips, so they’re only intended to demonstrate the difference between the two power cords. This time, the Melco is powered off a different circuit and with a general purpose power cord. But like the previous clips, only the cables were changed, so the comparison is still valid.

Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2798
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-08-15 22:35

I prefer clip 1, 19-24-23.

I can hear something that sounds like a tap gently running? It's in both clips. I kept thinking it was our tap :)

Post Reply