Playground for practical listening exercices

General HiFi discussion, using the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-06-28 15:59

This is the only Level 42 LP I own beck :) Never been a particular fan although this is album is enjoyable enough.

I like the Rega Planar 2 too. I recently heard the latest RP1 in a shop and found it quite boring, although nice sounding (a lot more refined than this one), so don't know if Rega has got worse or if it was the shop system.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Matteo » 2019-06-28 16:23

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-06-28 13:01
It's Friday.

Friday means bake off.

1. https://www.dropbox.com/s/qgzabigtqjjxz ... 2.MOV?dl=0
2. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1o2e00mryzs7k ... 4.MOV?dl=0

Nr 2. was quite cheap so I thought sod it.

Music inspired by beck's recent LP purchase.
Clip 1 win hands down for me

Best L42 album is ""The Pursuit of Accidents"

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-06-28 17:14

Maybe my comment was unclear. :-)

I like the Rega for what it does but do find the Sondek clearly better indeed.
Matteo wrote:
2019-06-28 16:23


Best L42 album is ""The Pursuit of Accidents"

M.
Thank you Matteo. They are so cheap that I will try to find them tomorrow.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Matteo » 2019-06-28 17:18

beck wrote:
2019-06-28 17:14
Maybe my comment was unclear. :-)

I like the Rega for what it does but do find the Sondek clearly better indeed.
Matteo wrote:
2019-06-28 16:23


Best L42 album is ""The Pursuit of Accidents"

M.
Thank you Matteo. They are so cheap that I will try to find them tomorrow.
Also their first album ("Level 42", 1981) is very good IMHO.

M.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-06-28 17:29

I thought you said this was a bake off? Clip 1 a lovely, multi-layer, cream cheese frosted carrot cake; Clip 2 a slice of dry toast. Listening to Clip 1 first definitely does Clip 2 no favors.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-06-28 17:35

Ha,
I've set it up in my youngest's room with 4140 and Tukans. Sounds really good. She's really pleased with it.
And I find a home for all my 2nd copies of ABBA, ELO and Fleetwood Mac.
She's wanted one a while but keeps spending her Xmas and Birthday money on guinea pigs and other nonsense.
No sure if it will last so we'll see.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-06-28 17:55

Yep, Thomas said it best :-)
@ Charlie: But you really should get rid of that AT-3600 cartridge and get at least an AT-95E...

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-06-28 18:02

Make sure it is not an expensive stylus! A good choice for a beginning table - just no match for an LP12.

Since it is Friday bake off lets try this.
System as I normally play it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fqitjgewbl54 ... M.mov?dl=0

System with the Urika 1 plugged into the Klimax Radikal as a dummy load:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpan7o02i36ti ... M.mov?dl=0

Let's see what you all think.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-06-28 18:32

The dummy load seems to suck quite a lot of life from the music. Not as interesting and enjoyable to listen to. Bigger difference than I was expecting to notice.

Really sounds like there is very little ‘system’ in the way of the music Thomas.

What are the white blocks on the bottom of each shelf?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-06-28 18:38

I thought you said this was a bake off? :-)

Agree with Charlie1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-06-28 18:53

Does that mean I'm a dummy if I like the second clip... ? It's a bit more forceful which works, initially, on the phone, but the more solid intro becomes a little insistent on repeated listening. Without the dummy load, there's a more natural, more nuanced presentation to the song.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-06-28 19:51

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-06-28 18:32
The dummy load seems to suck quite a lot of life from the music. Not as interesting and enjoyable to listen to. Bigger difference than I was expecting to notice.

Really sounds like there is very little ‘system’ in the way of the music Thomas.

What are the white blocks on the bottom of each shelf?
Thanks, that is certainly what I am shooting for (no system in the way of the music). The white blocks are pieces of 1" thick dacron polyester padding (as are often used inside speakers for damping). This is part of the design of the Harmonihyllan rack system. As I have it implemented, the top shelves under the Radikal and SINGularities are Mimer K shelves, then two Tor shelves each with the Sagatun Monos and Tundra Monos. The bottom is the Reference bottom which is basically a Tor upside down with a thick solid spruce shelf on the bottom (required as the spike fittings are put directly into the wood) and a thin shelf above. The thin shelf cannot have any component on it and seems to act as a vibration absorber to make the whole rack sound better. But to perform optimally it needs the polyester pad which is very light. It makes quite a musical difference removing the pad from even one rack and I have blown a lot of people's minds at shows doing just that demonstration. A good idea for another couple of clips. The tuning provided by those pads is such that a different size pad will make it perform less well. Indeed, I spent some time with larger and smaller pads, trimming off small amounts, to find the best sounding size.
tokenbrit wrote:
2019-06-28 18:53
Does that mean I'm a dummy if I like the second clip... ? It's a bit more forceful which works, initially, on the phone, but the more solid intro becomes a little insistent on repeated listening. Without the dummy load, there's a more natural, more nuanced presentation to the song.
I would imagine you'd rather be a dummy than a load!
Fredrik and I have both noticed that the Urika load gives a more powerful initial impact, possibly why we went with it at the show. But in comparative listening I find the bass not just more powerful but less defined and also find it isn't timed as well. It also overshadows some of the other instruments and you really can't hear the instrumental and vocal nuances as well throughout the song, as you noted.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-06-28 20:21

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-06-28 19:51
Fredrik and I have both noticed that the Urika load gives a more powerful initial impact, possibly why we went with it at the show. But in comparative listening I find the bass not just more powerful but less defined and also find it isn't timed as well...
Yep - not bad enough to 'spit the dummy' but, once you hear it, you realise: that's a load of(f)... :)

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-06-28 23:14

Tendaberry wrote:
2019-06-28 17:55
@ Charlie: But you really should get rid of that AT-3600 cartridge and get at least an AT-95E...
It’s a Rega Carbon but I assume you know that and it’s just a rebadged 3600.
I do have an at-95e. Maybe I could actually swap it myself!
Is the Carbon that bad?

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-06-29 06:01

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-06-28 23:14
Tendaberry wrote: @ Charlie: But you really should get rid of that AT-3600 cartridge and get at least an AT-95E...
It’s a Rega Carbon but I assume you know that and it’s just a rebadged 3600.
I do have an at-95e. Maybe I could actually swap it myself!
Is the Carbon that bad?
Let your youngest use the rega as it is now. Later you can present an upgrade (at95e) to her. She can learn something about turntables and what makes a difference to the sound.
Humans need passion in their life and music....

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-06-29 10:16

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-06-28 18:02
Make sure it is not an expensive stylus! A good choice for a beginning table - just no match for an LP12.

Since it is Friday bake off lets try this.
System as I normally play it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fqitjgewbl54 ... M.mov?dl=0

System with the Urika 1 plugged into the Klimax Radikal as a dummy load:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpan7o02i36ti ... M.mov?dl=0

Let's see what you all think.
Clip 1 is clearly better I think. It seems that the timing is off on clip 2 and the musicians seem sloppy and a bit tired.
And please do post the clips with and without pads on the lowest shelf.
Last edited by Tendaberry on 2019-06-29 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-06-29 10:17

Sorry, double post due to server error.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry » 2019-06-29 10:24

Charlie1 wrote:
2019-06-28 23:14
Tendaberry wrote:
2019-06-28 17:55
@ Charlie: But you really should get rid of that AT-3600 cartridge and get at least an AT-95E...
It’s a Rega Carbon but I assume you know that and it’s just a rebadged 3600.
I do have an at-95e. Maybe I could actually swap it myself!
Is the Carbon that bad?
I would do it... But maybe Beck's idea isn't that bad, if she's unused to handling a turntable.
The AT-3600L costs around € 19,90 and Rega charges 49,- for the rebadged version, but I would definitely fit an AT-95 on the Rega.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-06-29 13:44

I think whilst she's learning how to play records the Carbon is best left on but it's a good idea to switch to the AT-95E once she's got the hang of things.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-06-30 09:43

ThomasOK post wrote: Fredrik and I have both noticed that the Urika load gives a more powerful initial impact, possibly why we went with it at the show. But in comparative listening I find the bass not just more powerful but less defined and also find it isn't timed as well. It also overshadows some of the other instruments and you really can't hear the instrumental and vocal nuances as well throughout the song, as you noted.
Your clips Thomas has once again given me the feeling that we are getting near a core discussion on this forum.

In later times I have had the same kind of discussion twice with myself about what way to go with my system.
The first time during my search for optimal bias (Ekos/Klyde) and the second time during speaker setup.

Both times I ended up following the more powerful way (a bit like your clip 2). With my system it was the more musical way.

I think Tokenbrit hits it on the nail with his comments regarding your clips and I am guessing that your system is optimised in the “clip 1” direction therefore not totally comfortable in the “clip 2” direction (at least not with the Urika load).

I find that when taking a step back from the more ”insisting” presence of the individual instruments themselves in the presentation of the music we can gain something else. A more holistic presentation of the music.

Like walking outdoors not noticing the perfect 3D vision when we look at the world around us. It is only when we really focus on it we become aware of it.

A really interesting set of clips Thomas and a discussion that will not end anytime soon........
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz » 2019-07-01 08:52

ThomasOK wrote:
2019-06-28 18:02

Since it is Friday bake off lets try this.
System as I normally play it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8fqitjgewbl54 ... M.mov?dl=0

System with the Urika 1 plugged into the Klimax Radikal as a dummy load:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kpan7o02i36ti ... M.mov?dl=0

Let's see what you all think.
With Urika connected - it sounds good.

Without Urika is however much better- musicality and sound.

And I thought Radikal was designed ground up to power both LP12 motor and the Urika?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-07-11 20:39

Tendaberry wrote:
2019-06-29 10:16
And please do post the clips with and without pads on the lowest shelf.
As requested:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/38zxi42vi5dt4 ... M.mov?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ida3558x0ujbb ... M.mov?dl=0


Enjoy!
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Charlie1 » 2019-07-11 21:35

I prefer it without the block - more funky.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by tokenbrit » 2019-07-11 21:47

More musically together, and better balanced with. Loses something (a lot) without, and changes the presentation to more vocal fwd almost to the point of shouty for me. I can understand Charlie liking it for a more raw & immediate connection to the vocalist; it just loses too much overall for me though. Surprising amount of difference between the two, but definitely with for me thanks, and thanks for posting.

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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck » 2019-07-12 07:13

Without the block is the gig I would attend. I get into the music and start to move my body. Less brain, more body.

I understand tokenbrits comments but listening to the end of the clip where the percussion is alone it becomes a bit more like a mathematical exercise for me to listen to with the block on.
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