Please read it again folks.
It totally mimics my experience building/upgrading/tuning a system.
You need to constantly re-test to be reminded of how strong tune dem is as an evaluation tool.
And as a result, the importance of source first!
Without constant reminders it's too easy to using logic, but tune dem and source first can't really be explained using your brain. Only experience counts!
Charlie, using tune dem to listen to music? Not a chance.
I also think you missunderstood what Ivor said.
lejonklou wrote:This is an interesting discussion. I must say that I understand your complaints about niceness, Efraim. To me it indicates a system that for some reason isn't good enough for your demands.
The main problem could be anywhere; in the source, in the speakers, in the installation. It doesn't necessarily have to be in the choice of amps that you've compared. And it's great to be aware of the compensatory mechanisms: One character (dynamics) can be exaggerated to compensate for a weakness in the system (nice, non-dynamic sound). But this kind of compensation doesn't really improve things, it just hides some problems and often create a few others. You're probably already aware of this and the need to stay focused on musicality instead of chasing faults.
I can't resist mentioning that when developing an amplifier, I often come across choices that are really tempting for reasons of sound. Let's say that a prototype has a slightly harsh and edgy sound and some component values can be varied within a certain range. At one end of this range, I hear that the harshness is completely removed; the sound is more like I think it should be. But in the middle of the range, the prototype performs better tune-wise; it's easier to understand the musical message, despite sounding a bit more harsh and edgy.
Which do I choose? I go with the more tuneful setting, always. And experience has taught me that it's the only way to do it. Because very soon, another choice will appear in that same prototype, with a different impact on sound. And this time, that initial harshness might go away when I, once again, choose the most musical setting.
If instead I had first chosen the nice sounding setting (thinking that I need to sacrifice a bit of musicality in order to make it sound good), the second setting would most likely have become different as a result. And in the end, after many tuning sessions of different parameters, I would have a prototype that sounded OK but made a complete mess of the music. I know, because I've tried it! :lol:
Sorry to ramble, but I think that often it's the same thing with systems. When we really wish to trade musicality for a certain sound, it's best done at the end of the chain; the speakers. Compromises there doesn't affect musicality as much and has a really strong impact on the sound character. Also, it usually doesn't result in a chain of compensatory changes.