HAKAI playground

[lejonklou]

I have a preference for B in all 3 clips.

Me too

So do I

[Paaf]

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

[Sopper]

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

Hmmm, cannot think of any reason why it could differ, since it’s just a control point; weird

[David Neel]

I am astonished by this! But it seems to be right. I've just switched control points and yes, I think I slightly prefer Kazoo to BubbleDS. So the next question is: how does Kazoo compare to using Volumio via its web interface?

[FairPlayMotty]

I've tried Bubble, Kazoo, Media Monkey and HiFi Cast. The latter is my app of choice for sound/functionality combined.

[lejonklou]

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

Wow!

Excellent blind testing using clips!

The vast majority of enthusiast who are into streaming would likely have dismissed participating in a test like this if you'd suggested it openly. We had a bunch of even stranger findings from the development, things we would surely have dismissed if we had known what the difference between the clips were before listening to them.

[Lego]

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

Hmmm, cannot think of any reason why it could differ, since it’s just a control point; weird

My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me

[ThomasOK]

Same test but using a different song:

Second track:
A
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1J8fLe ... 4uyNfoPro5

B
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XlVWG ... oNNXSvpWtH

As with the first pair these are fairly close, but I definitely prefer B on this set. I find A to be a bit lackluster and uninvolving in comparison.

[ThomasOK]

New track with same difference A/B as before. Please enjoy singing along.

Third track
A
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aGeJZ ... wsLt4_HH1l

B
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UuPWN ... QYz5WmVufy

On this set I also prefer B. To me A sounds like the pianists fingers are almost tripping over each other. B it is easier for me to hear what is being played and how it is being played.

[Sopper]

https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli ... dupnp.html

This might explain difference in control points used

[ThomasOK]

The difference between A and B is which android app I used to start the song.
A = BubbleDS.
B = Linn Kazoo.

I definitely prefer B myself.

Lumin and BubbleUPnP sound the same as BubbleDS. Only Kazoo is different and IMHO much better musically.

I don't understand how this is possible! The app crashes and hangs .. but the music is great.

Wow!

Excellent blind testing using clips!

The vast majority of enthusiast who are into streaming would likely have dismissed participating in a test like this if you'd suggested it openly. We had a bunch of even stranger findings from the development, things we would surely have dismissed if we had known what the difference between the clips were before listening to them.

This is very interesting! I went back and listened again to the first set and I could hear that the piano seemed to come through a bit more clearly on B. I still had to go back and forth a few times and I'm still not sure I don't like the vocal part more on A. Maybe I just dislike this song so much that I prefer the one that makes it worse! :-)

But, yeah, B was definitely better on both the other clips.

[Paaf]

Thank you everyone who listened and commented!

I actually used dozens or more clips myself before posting the first one, because it seemed so impossible.

In the first track I hear more emotion in the words in B, for instance it sounds like he's smiling on the word "smile" instead of just singing some random word. In the second track I think A is very slightly "dusty" and B "shines". (heh) In the third track the violin after playing the same note again and again finally goes to another note. I feel it to be slightly out of tune in A, but just perfect in B.

[DelNaja]

My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me

This is not how my Bubble DS behaves. The music keeps playing no matter what I do with the app or the phone.

[Lego]

My experience with Bubble is that it has to be active in order to play the next track so it is definitely in the mix somehow.If the phone goes to sleep or you close the app the music will stop after the track has finished. With Kazoo the playlist is set up and it takes itself out of the mix and every track will play to the end, even if you close the app or turn device off, so this result doesn't surprise me

This is not how my Bubble DS behaves. The music keeps playing no matter what I do with the app or the phone.

Does it continue to next track?

[David Neel]

So we now know that if you are using BubbleDS on an Android control point, Kazoo provides an easy upgrade (even if it's not as nice to use). This is presumably nothing to do with Hakai - I have replicated the result via my ADS/3.

Is it related to either the Android environment, or design/implementation differences between Bubble DS and Kazoo? If somebody has the capability, it would be interesting to compare: i) different iOS control points, and ii) iOS Kazoo and Android Kazoo. Do any musical differences exist in these two scenarios?

[Paaf]

David Neel, I got the same too with MDS. Tests Android vs iOS would definitely be interesting.

As an interesting twist, while Linn Support helped me solve another issue, I mentioned in passing that I musically prefer Kazoo to all the other apps - they said there is NO difference between different apps. End of story. Well, I beg to differ... :)

[DelNaja]

Does it continue to next track?

Yes, it plays the whole playlist. It even starts over if I have repeat on.

[Lego]

Does it continue to next track?

Yes, it plays the whole playlist. It even starts over if I have repeat on.

Maybe I need to go into settings :0)

[Sopper]

I am going to record some clips to compare Volumio against Debian stretch +mpd.
Suggestions welcome for which music you’d like hear.

[Sopper]

2 x 2 clips
Volumio MPD 0.20.23 v Debian MPD 0.21.3
Clips are in the same order

Boz Scaggs - Thanks to you
https://www.dropbox.com/s/66owab1n4wf9u ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpx9dy92rqn6i ... 9.mov?dl=0

Dead Can Dance - The Carnival is over
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmhnc4n9i7jek ... 6.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v07k78riplv10 ... 5.mov?dl=0

[Paaf]

I prefer clip 1 for both songs.

[lejonklou]

2 x 2 clips
Volumio MPD 0.20.23 v Debian MPD 0.21.3

Boz Scaggs - Thanks to you
https://www.dropbox.com/s/66owab1n4wf9u ... 0.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpx9dy92rqn6i ... 9.mov?dl=0

Dead Can Dance - The Carnival is over
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmhnc4n9i7jek ... 6.mov?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v07k78riplv10 ... 5.mov?dl=0

I prefer 1 of Boz Scaggs.

Not as sure about DCD. I assume both songs have the clips in the same order?

Sounds good! And this is exciting...

[Sopper]

Both pairs are in the same order

[lejonklou]

OK, I listened again to the Dead Can Dance clips. My impression is that on the first clip, the notes fade in and fade out more completely and convincingly. So with slight hesitation I vote 1.

[Charlie1]

I prefer clip 1 on both too