The Linnofil Super NAS!

[David Neel]

ML,

Thanks. I'm trying to keep the wiring as simple as possible, as ethernet cables all over the house do not make for domestic harmony. Hence thinking that a silent NAS could be located with the hifi, and might benefit from my Isoblue rack. I can use either the non-hifi ring main or the hifi spur.

To eliminate fan noise, I am considering the more expensive Streacom case. This also has provision for a CD drive - currently I rip using my laptop drive, but would it be better to put a drive in the NAS and rip from that?

DN

[David Neel]

I've just ordered all the hardware components specified in the first post, except the disk drives and SATA cables. Decided to go with the FD case, if it's too noisy I can always go the the Streacom later - but the FD has SIX drive bays which should future-proof it.

I'm still searching for a good SSD deal, and wondering how to get the recommended cables.

[Linnofil]

I'm thinking of building a Linnofil SuperNAS!

Great! I see that you have already decided to do it before I had time to reply! I will answer some of the questions anyway, since there might be others (not posting) that will want to know the answers.

I used to build my own desktop PCs many years ago, so a NAS should be okay?

Yes, no problem. Another advantage is that you know how much fun it is! :-)

Do I need a screen/keyboard to install the NAS software, or can I do it all from the laptop?

Yes, you will need a screen (a HDMI TV?), a keyboard/mouse. It's also very beneficial to have a DVD drive to run the Win. 7 DVD etc.

When the NAS is running, is it quiet enough to be in the room? I think so from the commentary, but want to be sure.

Yes, I think so. I think most of the Swedes are in fact running it in the same room as the main system.

Should the NAS and the network switch share the hifi electrical spur, or be kept separate?

I don't know. A test will clear this up. Report back here so we can learn!

Can I start with just the one SSD drive? - I've only got about 100MB of music ripped so far, less than the same again to go - I'm mainly vinyl.

Yes it's possible. But if you can only afford one Intel 320, then use a separate small drive (64 GB?) for OS/SW. It's not that expensive to get a really small SSD for that, it will save "320 space" for music.

The two motherboards are different sizes, does this mean different case sizes?

Yes, sort of. The bigger mATX cases will also fit the smaller mini-ITX, but a small mini-ITX case will not fit the bigger mATX board.

The deluxe motherboard does not require a fan, but the pro version does - does this make the deluxe version quieter for being in the same room?

The fan listed is super silent, so it really doesn't make any difference. You have to connect a fan anyway because it makes it better. In your case that will be the Case fan, it's also a FD SS fan.

Does MinimServer work with this, or do I need to stick with Asset?

I have not tested Minimserver yet, But Asset is a good start and our reference. So start with that, you may choose the free version if you want to test against Minimserver first.

Sorry if these are very basic questions - I want to be absolutely sure before I spend any money.

Questions will move our knowledge forward.

Assuming it's quiet enough, mine may sit on the top of the hifi rack - any issues?

Hence thinking that a silent NAS could be located with the hifi, and might benefit from my Isoblue rack. I can use either the non-hifi ring main or the hifi spur.

This you will have to test. I don't know. The benefit from your rack may be greater than the disadvantage of it being close to the hifi. As most of us know the network equipment (NAS/Switch) is sensitive to placement etc.

currently I rip using my laptop drive, but would it be better to put a drive in the NAS and rip from that?

I use a separate drive for ripping. That enables me to control all the surroundings parameters. The surface has to be level, it's possible to experiment with different feet etc. A good cheap ripdrive is the Plextor Plextor PX-L890UE. I think the Plextor PX-B310U is better, but it's more expensive.

I've just ordered all the hardware components specified in the first post, except the disk drives and SATA cables.

Fantastic, it's really great that we get the first L.S. NAS in the UK.

Decided to go with the FD case, if it's too noisy I can always go the the Streacom later - but the FD has SIX drive bays which should future-proof it.

I think it's a good case. Please report back how you like it.

I'm still searching for a good SSD deal

I agree with ML that you should go for a 300 GB. And perhaps a small system drive. If you want to start right away, you could go for a 128 GB Samsung 840 Pro as OS/SW. That will give you some space for music (Not at all "320 good") while looking for a Intel 320 drive.

wondering how to get the recommended cables.

This is a problem for all outside Sweden. I don't know how they are branded (if available) in other countries. It would also be good if someone could find the best cable available in the UK/continental EU and US, Then we can compare with the cable I have found. There is still gains to be found. ML is testing these cables now to find out more. When we know more, we can maybe send you (and Paolo) a couple.

[rowlandhills]

Maybe Fredrik could add these SATA cables to his product list, as already supplies solder to music lovers in other countries?

[David Neel]

I've now checked out the Samsung SSD, but I've found a 120MB Intel 320 for the same price, as well as a cheap 300MB.

I should have all the components delivered in about ten days' time. Will assemble with whatever SATA cables I can get.

[Linnofil]

Maybe Fredrik could add these SATA cables to his product list, as already supplies solder to music lovers in other countries?

That could be a good idea. Since he has a system for distribution, payment etc. But if I know him, he would like to test ALL the worlds different SATA cables before putting any of them on his product list...

[Linnofil]

I've just ordered all the hardware components specified in the first post, except the disk drives and SATA cables.

Fantastic, it's really great that we get the first L.S. NAS in the UK.

I just realised that I don't know if you live in the UK, you're "Out There"...

I've now checked out the Samsung SSD, but I've found a 120MB Intel 320 for the same price, as well as a cheap 300MB.

Then I would go for both of the Intel 320 drives. (Unless you actually have managed to find MB versions of them. I prefere the GB versions... ;-) ) Use the 120 GB for OS/SW and the 300 GB for music.

Since this thread is about sharing knowledge, might you reveal where one can get a god deal on a Intel 320 SSD in the land of "Out There"?

I should have all the components delivered in about ten days' time. Will assemble with whatever SATA cables I can get.

Great. We look forward to your progress reports!

Let's see if we can help you with a couple of SATA cables. Send a PM to me or ML. (Paolo, you can do the same.) Even if you find the best SATA cable on your local market, we would like to know how it compares to the one I have found.

[David Neel]

Out There is actually UK - so your assumption was correct!

The good disk deals were on the amazon.co.uk marketplace. I got the 120GB for £91, and the 300GB for £250, plus £5 for delivery on each. The 300GB is from a new seller and "factory sealed brown box" - so a bit of finger-crossing until I see it.

Costs so far are a bit under £800. The motherboard was £146 at Tesco.com, the case £80, the memory £47 and the netgear GS105 switch £26 on amazon, the power supply was £118 on amazon marketplace. A Linn power cord will be £20 and then I still need the SATA cables and Windows. So about £850 total.

[ThomasOK]

I am really glad to see this thread - it is the kind of thing I was thinking of when I started the "Optimizing your DS" thread and I thank Linnofil for the time and effort put into this endeavor and for posting the info up here. I have to say that with the endorsements of Linnofil, Fredrik and Music Lover I have no doubt this would be a substantial improvement to most any DS system. Posting the info on here has already sparked enough interest that a few people are planning on building their own and suggestions for further investigation have already been made. To me this is what this forum is all about and best at - sharing information to allow interested people to improve their systems. Congratulations, Linnofil!

The only downside is that I currently don't own a DS and for the time being am running all analog. If I did have a DS I would run right out and build one of these units (despite my dislike of Microsoft products and wish you could do as well on a Mac). But in time I will have a DS again and I will definitely avail myself of this information when the time comes.

[David Neel]

Indeed, thanks to Linnofil! For me it's a bit of a relief to have got out of trying to choose a ready-built NAS together with HDDs, when RAID doesn't actually do anything about backup. I have now spent more than I was thinking of on a conventional NAS, but with the performance and silence benefits of SSD.

I may also add a large (2TB?) HDD to act as the backup point for our four laptops. I'm assuming (hoping) that this extra disk would have no adverse impact when not being accessed? Can anybody confirm this? If I can do this without musical impact then I will have a really neat solution. Then a USB drive backup of everything, to be stored offsite.

The main worry I have now is that my existing CD rips may be substandard - they have been done from my Toshiba laptop's drive using dbpoweramp rather than EAC. Anybody able to comment on dbpoweramp vs. EAC?

Thanks to everbody who has contributed to the knowledge around making the most of DS, especially Linnofil and ThomasOK.

[k_numigl]

I guess, the answer is: NO.
The question is: Has anybody tried this PC for music outside a LinnDS system?

The background for the question is that I record and play digitally using a Firewire Interface and have detected differences in performance between a number of HDD as well - not too surpising perhaps. If this PC works great in such a system, too, it would be most seductive. With the MB mentioned, a FW card has to be added of course, which is no technical problem but may deserve additional testing.

BR, Klaus

[David Neel]

Can anybody recommend a good drive for ripping? Linnofil's recommendations of Plextor PX L890UE as a cheap drive had me chasing it, but it is now superseded and none left for sale.

[jiddu_k]

Hi all,

decided to give "The Linnofil Super NAS" a try myself.

Like David Neel I was not able to get hold of the Deltaco SATA-1000 cables here (germany in my case) - so any help with that will be much appreciated.

It may be that I ordered the gold series of Seasonic SS-460FL instead of the platinium series by accident. The gold series seem to be the previous model with the same name SS-460FL/SS-460FL2. Will this be a problem - or is anyone using the gold series as well?

As I will compare the 120GB Intel 320 series SSD to a 120GB Samsung 840 SSD first (in a small one-bay Nas and then probably in my NV+) there is still time to order a platinium one before I start.

[Linnofil]

Out There is actually UK - so your assumption was correct!

I guess it was based on your good English! :-)

Thanks for sharing the information.

[Linnofil]

I am really glad to see this thread - it is the kind of thing I was thinking of when I started the "Optimizing your DS" thread and I thank Linnofil for the time and effort put into this endeavor and for posting the info up here. I have to say that with the endorsements of Linnofil, Fredrik and Music Lover I have no doubt this would be a substantial improvement to most any DS system. Posting the info on here has already sparked enough interest that a few people are planning on building their own and suggestions for further investigation have already been made. To me this is what this forum is all about and best at - sharing information to allow interested people to improve their systems. Congratulations, Linnofil!

Thank you for your kind words Thomas! I hope that if there are builders in the US that you have contact with that you or themselves can report their progress here.

The only downside is that I currently don't own a DS and for the time being am running all analog. If I did have a DS I would run right out and build one of these units (despite my dislike of Microsoft products and wish you could do as well on a Mac). But in time I will have a DS again and I will definitely avail myself of this information when the time comes.

Thank you for you confidence in my findings. There is nothing wrong with building this for your place of work. Just like demonstrating Majik 109's with Majik components will mostly show the limitation of the Majik electronics, demonstrating a Linn DS without the best NAS possible will not demonstrate the "real" performance of the DS. It will also show the limitations of the digital input signal. (Even if relative differences mostly will be the same.)

Note: If someone want to comment on what is fair and reasonable in demonstrations (as interesting as that is), then please do that in a separate thread.

[Linnofil]

Indeed, thanks to Linnofil! For me it's a bit of a relief to have got out of trying to choose a ready-built NAS together with HDDs, when RAID doesn't actually do anything about backup. I have now spent more than I was thinking of on a conventional NAS, but with the performance and silence benefits of SSD.

Thanks David. Personally, I think you made the right choice!

I may also add a large (2TB?) HDD to act as the backup point for our four laptops. I'm assuming (hoping) that this extra disk would have no adverse impact when not being accessed? Can anybody confirm this? If I can do this without musical impact then I will have a really neat solution. Then a USB drive backup of everything, to be stored offsite.

My tests indicate that if you are using a Seagate ES.2 drive you will be fine. The other drives I have tested have all affected the performance of the NAS. I wonder if the reason that the ES.2 sounds so good compared with other HDD's is that it creates less disturbance back into the system? Set the HDD to go to sleep after 5 minutes and you will have even less problems with noise and performance.

The main worry I have now is that my existing CD rips may be substandard

I think you are right! This really is "a glass half full". The great thing is that now your rips can be greatly improved. By learning more, getting the right ripdrive etc. you can get a lot more out of your CD's, almost for free. Great, isn't it? Ripping really is a separate subject, so I will not go into it to deep here.

they have been done from my Toshiba laptop's drive using dbpoweramp rather than EAC. Anybody able to comment on dbpoweramp vs. EAC?

I have found EAC to be better. So much that I would not recommend anyone to rip with dB Poweramp.

Thanks to everbody who has contributed to the knowledge around making the most of DS, especially Linnofil and ThomasOK.

Thanks again. I think anyone who builds the L.S. NAS is contributing to this aim. The more we are, the more we can test and the more we learn. (If we test correctly and commit to share our findings.)

[Linnofil]

The question is: Has anybody tried this PC for music outside a LinnDS system?

I don't think so. I have tried to use it with a Asus Xonar D1 and it sounds a lot better than any other PC I have ever used. But I have only tested the Xonar D1 in one other computer (older Shuttle AMD barebone). This is with the optical digital out to a Classic Movie 05/B. This doesn't make it a poor mans DS, far from. But the sound was good and there was some musical feel to it. The NAS sound (for DS) a tiny little bit better without it. But I still have it in the NAS now. I bought the Xonar D1 to test recording from the LP12 (it's capable of 24/192 recordings) in the main system. But I haven't tried it yet.

The background for the question is that I record and play digitally using a Firewire Interface and have detected differences in performance between a number of HDD as well - not too surpising perhaps. If this PC works great in such a system, too, it would be most seductive. With the MB mentioned, a FW card has to be added of course, which is no technical problem but may deserve additional testing.

I would think it's likely that the L.S. NAS will be a good base for a PC based recorder. But it's hard to "know" something without testing first.

FW boards, I'm pretty sure they all sound different and that one is better than the others. As you said: "may deserve additional testing". This may be a hard fact to digest. But the possibilities are always there, it's just a question if you take advantage of them or are overwhelmed by them.

[ThomasOK]

Thanks to everbody who has contributed to the knowledge around making the most of DS, especially Linnofil and ThomasOK.

I appreciate the comment but I have really done very little in the investigation of DS source improvements, I just collated a lot of them in order to make it easier to find. The real work has been done by Linnofil, Music Lover, paolo and a few others - they deserve our thanks for sharing their efforts.

A question that David Neel had mirrored one I wanted to ask: whether it would be a good idea to put a ripping drive inside the Linnofil Super NAS. I gather from Linnofil's comment that this isn't the highest recommendation. I do have to wonder, however, if one could get close to the performance of an external CD ripping drive with something internal. I'm sure a number of customers would really love it if they could get the best NAS and the best ripping, or close to it, in one chassis.

I also think it would be a good idea to redress CD ripping as the quality of the rip certainly relates to getting the best out of the NAS. However, I will either start or resuscitate another thread to further this question.

[David Neel]

I may also add a large (2TB?) HDD to act as the backup point for our four laptops. I'm assuming (hoping) that this extra disk would have no adverse impact when not being accessed? Can anybody confirm this? If I can do this without musical impact then I will have a really neat solution. Then a USB drive backup of everything, to be stored offsite.

My tests indicate that if you are using a Seagate ES.2 drive you will be fine. The other drives I have tested have all affected the performance of the NAS. I wonder if the reason that the ES.2 sounds so good compared with other HDD's is that it creates less disturbance back into the system? Set the HDD to go to sleep after 5 minutes and you will have even less problems with noise and performance.

Very tempting to do this with an ES.2 drive. If I keep it just for backup and set it to sleep after 5 minutes, am I right in thinking it would be silent? Currently have one in my amazon basket, will think about it before pressing "place order".

[David Neel]

A question that David Neel had mirrored one I wanted to ask: whether it would be a good idea to put a ripping drive inside the Linnofil Super NAS. I gather from Linnofil's comment that this isn't the highest recommendation. I do have to wonder, however, if one could get close to the performance of an external CD ripping drive with something internal. I'm sure a number of customers would really love it if they could get the best NAS and the best ripping, or close to it, in one chassis.

The CD ripping drive has me frustrated at the moment. Those recommended in Thomas' Optimising the DS thread are superseded, as is one of the external Plextors recommended by Linnofil.

Linnofil, is your recommendation of an external drive based on better performance in ripping, or better performance from the SuperNAS because the CD drive doesn't affect it? How did you chose the Plextor 310, and how is it better? And can anybody else offer any suggestions?

[lejonklou]

Linnofil, is your recommendation of an external drive based on better performance in ripping, or better performance from the SuperNAS because the CD drive doesn't affect it?

It's based on better performance in ripping. The Bluray drive is said to be a little better than the DVD (I haven't compared them, but trust Linnofil as his rips are the best I've heard), how about getting that?

[Linnofil]

Very tempting to do this with an ES.2 drive. If I keep it just for backup and set it to sleep after 5 minutes, am I right in thinking it would be silent?

Yes, correct.

Currently have one in my amazon basket, will think about it before pressing "place order".

Press away!

[ThomasOK]

I have created a separate thread for Optimized ripping solutions so we have a place to move that part of the discussion.

http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1600

[David Neel]

Linnofil, is your recommendation of an external drive based on better performance in ripping, or better performance from the SuperNAS because the CD drive doesn't affect it?

It's based on better performance in ripping. The Bluray drive is said to be a little better than the DVD (I haven't compared them, but trust Linnofil as his rips are the best I've heard), how about getting that?

Done!

[David Neel]

Very tempting to do this with an ES.2 drive. If I keep it just for backup and set it to sleep after 5 minutes, am I right in thinking it would be silent?

Yes, correct.

Currently have one in my amazon basket, will think about it before pressing "place order".

Press away!

Also done!