Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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tokenbrit
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tokenbrit »

Think the whole P10 discussion could do with its own thread, ideally with clips as this seems off topic without, especially here, and a long way from John's Technics vs 'party of the 3rd parts' LP12.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Lego »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-12 18:05
Lego wrote: 2022-05-12 12:37 I think quite a few people on here underestimate the importance of the setup of an LP12, so for me fleeting statements like a P10 is better than an Lp12 is almost risible and getting close to misinformation..My LP12 set up by, fill in the blank ,sounded worse than P10 would be much more informative.It's very easy to make any level of LP12 sound musically worse than a Rega 2.

The Regas and and LP12s are very good turntables and both should be musically very enjoyable to listen to.If everything is set up correctly one should not make the other sound broken.
"Fleeting statement"?, "Misinformation"?. ...How am I supposed to have an intelligent conversation with you ?
The P10 is better for me, and I explained fully why I feel that way in previous posts and my history working with/around and owning LP12's for 35 years, did you take the time to read any of my post. The LP12 is just another deck, it's not God sent although you may feel that way, and I can understand how it may make one feel good being amongst a community of supporters for the product.

And BTW, your scaring people away from LP12's by giving the impression that they are so sensitive and that how the slightest assembly mis-step sends them into eternal Out of Tuneness. Why would anyone want to own such a fragile and sensitive thing where every time you think something sounds a little off you run back to your Linn "specialist" for it's checkup? ...And beware, -hint-hint- not every "socalled" Linn specialist is really a Linn specialist, there are just really only a few out there that really know what their doing..
Take it easy Tp,all I was saying is that it's the person that sets up the Lp12 that determines the sound outcome of the deck not the LP12 itself unlike Rega turntables that have their sound determined by the factory.
As far as fragility goes a well set up LP12 can sound enjoyable for years and if you found it otherwise well maybe that says it all.
I actually do hope to scare people away from badly setup LP12s as eternal out of tunefulness is very much a real event because when it's out of tune playing it eternally won't automatically put it back into tune although some people probably adapt to it and are sort of happy until they hear any decent/Rega turntable and then they see the light and proceed to spread the word.
As far as your reference to only a few good ones out there,I do sometimes wonder going by the speed some people upgrade and change things and don't get me started on 3rd party cling ons
I know that tune
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Whatsmynaim »

tpetsch - Remember that YYY got my top vote for sounding the best. Sure, I did remark on the bass but it's just that one song played on an apparently modified LP12. Outside of that I've never encountered any LP12 bass issues.
I think tokenbrit is right. This needs its own thread + clips.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

tokenbrit wrote: 2022-05-12 23:08 Think the whole P10 discussion could do with its own thread, ideally with clips as this seems off topic without, especially here, and a long way from John's Technics vs 'party of the 3rd parts' LP12.
Your right on your many counts Tokenbrit, this sidestep has taken up too much bandwidth.

And to Lego, I hear what your saying and sorry if I came off a little harsh, I really respect the members here more than any other forum that I'm a member of and respect all the opinions & open mindedness.

Here's a quickie audio clip of my system with P10, aphelion II and Aura FWIW, I've posted this before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url

I'll leave it at this. Many Thanks..
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Charlie1 »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-12 17:25
Charlie1 wrote: 2022-05-12 11:52 Yeah, me neither. An early 80s system can sound quite well balanced. CB Naim amps and early Linn speakers worked very well together with the LP12 of that time. But mixed with the wrong gear and yes, it can sound bloated, overly warm, etc.
My system is all Naim Chrome Bumper. 32.5/HC, NAXO 3-6/HC, 3xNap250, Isobarik DMS speakers. My P10 has a Aphelion II cartridge and I'm using Regas Aura Phono stage. The P10 has breathed new life into this "80's" system in a way that I thought not possible. I can just offer my experience, the LP12 is a fine deck, always loved mine, but the P10 -for me anyway- does NOT leave wanting anymore, for the time being anyway until I hear something better "for me".

And I do recall A clip I posted a little while back Charlie where you said something along the lines of "I'd be very happy with that system" so in a blind test you did like it. ...Now the P10 may not be for you, I believe you thought it sounded "fast" from when we spoke in a PM but for me that "fast" sound is simply not smearing of the notes such as a fast sharp piano note, in real life that too sounds/and decays fast, doesn't linger, the P10 is just more accurate in that way, more lifelike. For me I was instantly drawn to the P10, but for you perhaps not so much.
Nice system! I also like the 32.5 and Isobariks - not so keen on 250s though. I don't recall what I said back then. Ultimately, I just found the LP12s easier to musically understand which is how I make these decisions. I don't recall the P10 running fast, just that it had faster attacking notes - and you may well be right that it's more realistic in that respect. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the P10. And worth noting that I probably get most enjoyment from my oldest LP12 - a Valhalla/Ittok deck which I listen to for a few hours each day and never get tired of it.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Lego »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 07:16
tokenbrit wrote: 2022-05-12 23:08 Think the whole P10 discussion could do with its own thread, ideally with clips as this seems off topic without, especially here, and a long way from John's Technics vs 'party of the 3rd parts' LP12.
Your right on your many counts Tokenbrit, this sidestep has taken up too much bandwidth.

And to Lego, I hear what your saying and sorry if I came off a little harsh, I really respect the members here more than any other forum that I'm a member of and respect all the opinions & open mindedness.

Here's a quickie audio clip of my system with P10, aphelion II and Aura FWIW, I've posted this before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url

I'll leave it at this. Many Thanks..
Great sound Tpetsch I know that tune and album really well.Timing on the piano at the start was very good
I know that tune
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 07:16
tokenbrit wrote: 2022-05-12 23:08 Think the whole P10 discussion could do with its own thread, ideally with clips as this seems off topic without, especially here, and a long way from John's Technics vs 'party of the 3rd parts' LP12.
Your right on your many counts Tokenbrit, this sidestep has taken up too much bandwidth.

And to Lego, I hear what your saying and sorry if I came off a little harsh, I really respect the members here more than any other forum that I'm a member of and respect all the opinions & open mindedness.

Here's a quickie audio clip of my system with P10, aphelion II and Aura FWIW, I've posted this before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url

I'll leave it at this. Many Thanks..
Just for fun, here’s more Moaning with my nice new genuine Linn belt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yed6otu0cqhe ... 3.mov?dl=0
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

John wrote: 2022-05-13 19:10
tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 07:16
tokenbrit wrote: 2022-05-12 23:08 Think the whole P10 discussion could do with its own thread, ideally with clips as this seems off topic without, especially here, and a long way from John's Technics vs 'party of the 3rd parts' LP12.
Your right on your many counts Tokenbrit, this sidestep has taken up too much bandwidth.

And to Lego, I hear what your saying and sorry if I came off a little harsh, I really respect the members here more than any other forum that I'm a member of and respect all the opinions & open mindedness.

Here's a quickie audio clip of my system with P10, aphelion II and Aura FWIW, I've posted this before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url

I'll leave it at this. Many Thanks..
Just for fun, here’s more Moaning with my nice new genuine Linn belt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yed6otu0cqhe ... 3.mov?dl=0
OK, this is fun, thanks for playing. ...I've listened to both several times now and have enjoyed your clip, you sure that's not the Technics turntable??, just kidding.

My copy Btw is a new Classic Series, I's guessing yours is too?, a buddy of mine has a very early Blue Note that's obviously "crisper".
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

mmh not an apples to apples comparison but I kinda like the new belt
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 19:54
John wrote: 2022-05-13 19:10
tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 07:16

Your right on your many counts Tokenbrit, this sidestep has taken up too much bandwidth.

And to Lego, I hear what your saying and sorry if I came off a little harsh, I really respect the members here more than any other forum that I'm a member of and respect all the opinions & open mindedness.

Here's a quickie audio clip of my system with P10, aphelion II and Aura FWIW, I've posted this before: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url

I'll leave it at this. Many Thanks..
Just for fun, here’s more Moaning with my nice new genuine Linn belt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yed6otu0cqhe ... 3.mov?dl=0
OK, this is fun, thanks for playing. ...I've listened to both several times now and have enjoyed your clip, you sure that's not the Technics turntable??, just kidding.

My copy Btw is a new Classic Series, I's guessing yours is too?, a buddy of mine has a very early Blue Note that's obviously "crisper".
Mine’s an early mono. I’d be glad to do this again. I have over 3,400 LP’s and lots of jazz.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

John thank you for the clip you convinced me to try a new a new belt on mine too - I surely didnt expected it to be making such a difference.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:10
tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 19:54
John wrote: 2022-05-13 19:10

Just for fun, here’s more Moaning with my nice new genuine Linn belt.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yed6otu0cqhe ... 3.mov?dl=0
OK, this is fun, thanks for playing. ...I've listened to both several times now and have enjoyed your clip, you sure that's not the Technics turntable??, just kidding.

My copy Btw is a new Classic Series, I's guessing yours is too?, a buddy of mine has a very early Blue Note that's obviously "crisper".
Mine’s an early mono. I’d be glad to do this again. I have over 3,400 LP’s and lots of jazz.
I hear you, my LP's are starting to take over too.
I mean if you have the newly released classic series version -these are all Stereo pressings- than that would be interesting, but if not that's OK too.
I know these postings mean work is involved.

BTW: A thought of mine is one of these days several of us will get together and agree on a recording/pressing we all have and then post them to hear all the differences, in a way this is better than -IMO- hearing a demo at an audio shop because systems here are loved/tweaked and burned in, not a shop demo where gear is quickly swapped around and cold gear etc..
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

It’s not much work using an iPhone. I have Andrew Hill “Passing Ships”, Lee Morgan “The Rajah”, Curtis Amy & Dupree Bolton – Katanga!. A couple might be Tone Poet series.

How about Miles Davis “Kind of Blue” for a common pressing? I must have 5 versions including original mono and stereo pressings.

Do you have the Classic?
https://www.discogs.com/release/3841623 ... nd-Of-Blue
Last edited by John on 2022-05-13 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:47 It’s not much work using an iPhone. I have Andrew Hill “Passing Ships”, Lee Morgan “The Rajah”, Curtis Amy & Dupree Bolton – Katanga!. A couple might be Tone Poet series.
Of those I have the Tone Poet Katanga John, but not sure I can post a clip for a few days...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

double post
Last edited by Defender on 2022-05-13 20:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 20:39
John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:10
tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 19:54

OK, this is fun, thanks for playing. ...I've listened to both several times now and have enjoyed your clip, you sure that's not the Technics turntable??, just kidding.

My copy Btw is a new Classic Series, I's guessing yours is too?, a buddy of mine has a very early Blue Note that's obviously "crisper".
Mine’s an early mono. I’d be glad to do this again. I have over 3,400 LP’s and lots of jazz.
well for those recordings Johns mono pressing took it home for me. When I heard yours I heard all the nice timing and the fastness and it surely sounded good but I said to me mmh I will never get into Jazz.
That was different with Johns recording.
I hear you, my LP's are starting to take over too.
I mean if you have the newly released classic series version -these are all Stereo pressings- than that would be interesting, but if not that's OK too.
I know these postings mean work is involved.

BTW: A thought of mine is one of these days several of us will get together and agree on a recording/pressing we all have and then post them to hear all the differences, in a way this is better than -IMO- hearing a demo at an audio shop because systems here are loved/tweaked and burned in, not a shop demo where gear is quickly swapped around and cold gear etc..
well for those recordings Johns mono pressing took it home for me. When I heard yours I heard all the nice timing and the fastness and it surely sounded good but I said to me mmh I will never get into Jazz.
That was different with Johns recording.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 20:51
John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:47 It’s not much work using an iPhone. I have Andrew Hill “Passing Ships”, Lee Morgan “The Rajah”, Curtis Amy & Dupree Bolton – Katanga!. A couple might be Tone Poet series.
Of those I have the Tone Poet Katanga John, but not sure I can post a clip for a few days...
When you get time, post a clip and I’ll do the same.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:54
tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 20:51
John wrote: 2022-05-13 20:47 It’s not much work using an iPhone. I have Andrew Hill “Passing Ships”, Lee Morgan “The Rajah”, Curtis Amy & Dupree Bolton – Katanga!. A couple might be Tone Poet series.
Of those I have the Tone Poet Katakana John, but not sure I can post a clip for a few days...
When you get time, post a clip and I’ll do the same.
OK John, Will do. This is fun.. Maybe someone else has a Tone Poet copy of Katakana too?

Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 20:53
well for those recordings Johns mono pressing took it home for me. When I heard yours I heard all the nice timing and the fastness and it surely sounded good but I said to me mmh I will never get into Jazz.
That was different with Johns recording.
Ok, interesting viewpoint Defender, thanks for sharing your opinion of these two clips and FWIW, same piece of music but different Blue Note masterings/pressings -but both all analog masterings, no digital- and also one is a Stereo and the other a Mono...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gi1pr4bn366q ... OV?dl=0url
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8yed6otu0cqhe ... 3.mov?dl=0
Last edited by tpetsch on 2022-05-13 21:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

I just stated what I felt - and in the end what counts is the individual joy we have.
I have never heard the Technics or the Rega or the LP12 in real life in an apples to apples comparison.
The only thing I know is all of these 3 draw a decent fangroup so there must be a reason for it.
I see your topic with that fatness of bass and feel for it as I have the same when the mids/highs are not clear and s tones and f tones create distortion. If you focus on that its difficult to let go and it can screw up the fun.
But I think that has nothing to do with how musical a source is.
Best is if a source is musical and not fat in bass and not hot in the mids and a lot of other things.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by tpetsch »

Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 21:45 I just stated what I felt - and in the end what counts is the individual joy we have.
I have never heard the Technics or the Rega or the LP12 in real life in an apples to apples comparison.
The only thing I know is all of these 3 draw a decent fangroup so there must be a reason for it.
I see your topic with that fatness of bass and feel for it as I have the same when the mids/highs are not clear and s tones and f tones create distortion. If you focus on that its difficult to let go and it can screw up the fun.
But I think that has nothing to do with how musical a source is.
Best is if a source is musical and not fat in bass and not hot in the mids and a lot of other things.
This is a fun A/B and I respect your input as always, but maybe well get an even better idea when we both -at some point- post clips of the exact same pressing. Maybe others will get involved too??
Rega P10, Aphelion II, Aura. Naim CB 32.5/HC, Naxo 3-6/HC, 3x250 into K20/DMS.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Defender »

yes thats a good idea - I think Tendaberry is the king of knowledge with respect to the most musical pressings
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Arjen »

Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 21:45 I just stated what I felt - and in the end what counts is the individual joy we have.
I have never heard the Technics or the Rega or the LP12 in real life in an apples to apples comparison.
The only thing I know is all of these 3 draw a decent fangroup so there must be a reason for it.
Aye folks, what counts indeed is the individual joy.
So I ‘m now playing Andrew Hill Passing Ships and Curtis Amy / Dupree Bolton Katanga! Invited by your thread. Doin’ my own A/B after getting a noise reduction Soundeck Platter Mat last monday in North Shield / Newcastle. See Tuning Mat topic. No Technics, no Rega P10, no LP12, just Lenco 76/S.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Tendaberry »

Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 22:05 yes thats a good idea - I think Tendaberry is the king of knowledge with respect to the most musical pressings
I don't know if I can accept that crown, but I know what to avoid at least. For Blue Note, Rudy Van Gelder began experimenting with 2-track recordings in July 1957. For selected sessions he recorded both single-track and two-track simultaneously, others only single-track. By late 1958 all sessions were recorded to two-track and mono mixes were created by folding down the two-track recordings.
As a result, of the 340-odd titles in the Blue Note 1500 and 4000 series up to 4250, around ninety recordings were released only in mono, around 250 went on to have both a mono and a true stereo release (based on a two-track recording mix).
What you have to watch out for are the "electronically re-recorded to simulate stereo" reissues with catalogue numbers such as 81542, as these are truly musically inferior to the original mono recordings they are based on.
The album in this case "Art Blakey And The Jazz Messengers" (also called "Moanin'" on reissues) was recorded simultaneously both in mono and genuine stereo, so I guess it's a matter of taste, which one prefers.

Personally I would stay away from any issue, that has been digitally remastered, as it usually screws up the timing and flow of the music. The only case I have encountered so far, where a recent issue equals an original (Columbia 6-eye in this case), is the UHQR reissue by Analogue Productions of Miles Davis' "Kind Of Blue". This edition is the first since Classic Records' 1995 reissue to use the metal parts created using Bernie Grundman's mastering in which he cut lacquers directly from the 3 track master tapes. Grundman also corrected the quarter tone sharp reproduction of "So What", "Freddie The Freeloader" and "Blue in Green" created by the original 3 track recorder running slow during the first recording session.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by Arjen »

Tendaberry wrote: 2022-05-14 10:21
Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 22:05 yes thats a good idea - I think Tendaberry is the king of knowledge with respect to the most musical pressings
I don't know if I can accept that crown, but I know what to avoid at least.
Enlightening explanation Tendaberry.
About Kind of Blue, should you have avoid yourself the 2015 Columbia Legacy re-issue? And why (not) then?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercises

Post by John »

tpetsch wrote: 2022-05-13 21:50
Defender wrote: 2022-05-13 21:45 I just stated what I felt - and in the end what counts is the individual joy we have.
I have never heard the Technics or the Rega or the LP12 in real life in an apples to apples comparison.
The only thing I know is all of these 3 draw a decent fangroup so there must be a reason for it.
I see your topic with that fatness of bass and feel for it as I have the same when the mids/highs are not clear and s tones and f tones create distortion. If you focus on that its difficult to let go and it can screw up the fun.
But I think that has nothing to do with how musical a source is.
Best is if a source is musical and not fat in bass and not hot in the mids and a lot of other things.
This is a fun A/B and I respect your input as always, but maybe well get an even better idea when we both -at some point- post clips of the exact same pressing. Maybe others will get involved too??

I would enjoy that as well. There was a time on PFM when that was happening but posting needle drops is no longer allowed. There is a recent poster over there who has a Rega P10 and Technics SL-1200G with nice cartridges on both. Love to see him join the festivities as those are two turntables that interest me.
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