Recommended network components

[Spannko]

All the same cables, just moved from one socket to another.

BCD2D7AD-03B5-4010-AA8A-9C2F10775944.png

For a more complete picture, what was the config with & without BR200: just router to switch to switch to Kalla, all cabled, no Ubiquiti WAP?

So, first clips comparing router sections: VH4 vs BR200. Second clips comparing wireless access: VH4 vs Ubiquiti (& where best to connect the WAP), correct? Are you going to do WAP connected to the second 108*, as well? :)

* subject to Fredrik's question, of course ;)

Re First Clips: Correct
Re Second Clips: Incorrect. The same WAP (Ubiquiti LR) was used for both clips, plugged into either the switch or the router.
Re WAP plugged into second switch: Good idea! I hadn’t thought about trying that.

[matthias]

I like 9.28 better.

Same for me (if it is the second one)

[matthias]

It’s in modem mode, ie WiFi and internal router switched off.

You guys in the UK are very fortunate :-)

[Spannko]

But the turntable used in making both clips is running pretty slow. ;-)

I agree. It must have a Karousel fitted!

[tokenbrit]

.. it’s occurred to me that the Amplifi HD could replace the BR200.

Would be interesting to try your wired router configs, with Ubiquiti WAP, against:

Code: Select all

modem - Amplifi HD ))) ... ((( Amplifi HD - 108 - Kalla
	|
	108 (home)

[Spannko]

It does all seem to be a little complex compared to Fredrik's suggested, simple setup... unless that didn't work for Spannko :/

Unfortunately, you’re right, it is more complex, but purely out of necessity. Hopefully, these experiments will help us to understand the consequences of network complexity, particularly when David Neil tries the Amplifi HD’s. DN’s network consists of modem/router >>> BJC >>> 108T >>> BJC >>> Källa, so is almost as simple as it can get. It’ll be interesting to see if the Amplifi’s improve performance.

Something else I want to try is set up a sub net purely for the HiFi. Fredrick has tried this on his relatively simple network and found that it didn’t make much difference, if any at all. How will it affect a more complex/busy network? Hopefully, we’ll find out!

[Spannko]

.. it’s occurred to me that the Amplifi HD could replace the BR200.

Would be interesting to try your wired router configs, with Ubiquiti WAP, against:

Code: Select all

modem - Amplifi HD ))) ... ((( Amplifi HD - 108 - Kalla
	|
	108 (home)

Yes, very interesting! It could be the best configuration 🤞

Just noticed: the 108(home) would need to be connected to the first Amplifi HD

[tokenbrit]

...
Something else I want to try is set up a sub net purely for the HiFi. Fredrick has tried this on his relatively simple network and found that it didn’t make much difference, if any at all. How will it affect a more complex/busy network? Hopefully, we’ll find out!

Trying it - hopefully will get some clips posted... It'll be interesting to compare; see if there's a pattern to the results... Thanks for posting your clips.

[springwood64]

Comparing this

hifi wired.png

to this

hifi wireless.png

Not necessarily in the same order:

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

[Spannko]

Post removed due to error in network setup

[Spannko]

Post removed due to error in network setup

[matthias]

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

A

[fatjulio]

Comparing this

hifi wired.png

to this

hifi wireless.png

Not necessarily in the same order:

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

A for me

[Tendaberry]

A has an excitement, that I find missing in B.

[lejonklou]

Comparing this

hifi wired.png

to this

hifi wireless.png

Not necessarily in the same order:

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

I prefer A.

I’d like to know what cables (lengths and models) are used in Wired and Wireless.

If they are the same in both cases, then all you have done is to insert two extra units in the path between router and HAKAI?

[springwood64]

I’d like to know what cables (lengths and models) are used in Wired and Wireless.

If they are the same in both cases, then all you have done is to insert two extra units in the path between router and HAKAI?

No, it's more complex than that.

Wired:
* Router >> BJC 2.5m >> Netgear GS108T >> 5m Cat 5e (not BJC, embedded in the walls) >> Wall plate >> BJC 0.5m >> Hakai
* Netgear and Router powered together from the same mains extender (downstairs, by the phone cable point)
* HAKAI and HiFi upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a separate mains ring and dedicated fuse box

Wireless:
* Router >> BJC 0.5m >> Amplifi HD 1
* Amplifi HD 2 >> BJC 2.5m >> (port 7) Netgear GS108T (port 8) >> BJC 2.5m >> HAKAI
* Router and Amplifi HD 1 powered together from the same mains extender (downstairs, by the phone cable point)
* Amplifi HD 2, Netgear GS108T upstairs, powered as per Frederik's recommendations on a second mains extender and the same mains ring as the rest of the HiFi.

[matthias]

Pete,
did you place in "wireless" your router or the Amplifi in Bridge mode?
If yes, which one?
Thanks

[lejonklou]

No, it's more complex than that.

Ah! Thanks, then it's a more exciting comparison than I first thought.

[springwood64]

Pete,
did you place in "wireless" your router or the Amplifi in Bridge mode?
If yes, which one?
Thanks

Amplifi HD 1 is in Bridge Mode, and Amplifi HD 2 is added as a Mesh access point to Amplifi HD 1.

[Spannko]

Re my last two comparisons, as Thomas suggested, they sounded slow and after making a few alterations this morning, it’s clear that with all the messing around with the network I did something which Källa didn’t like. Unfortunately, I’ve no idea what that might have been, all I know is that after a series of factory resets there’s a definite improvement in the performance. Consequently, I have removed the videos.

[tokenbrit]

Re my last two comparisons, as Thomas suggested, they sounded slow and after making a few alterations this morning, it’s clear that with all the messing around with the network I did something which Källa didn’t like. Unfortunately, I’ve no idea what that might have been, all I know is that after a series of factory resets there’s a definite improvement in the performance. Consequently, I have removed the videos.

Temperamental things networks, at times.

Unless it was inconsistent between the two, then aren't the results still valid?

The majority preferred Warm/VH4, and 9:28/router connection, so 'simpler' appeared to be winning at yours... Will be interesting to hear from 'David Neel', with his simple network setup, and to find out what permutation(s) you try next; find best there, including any do-over(s).

[Spannko]

Unless it was inconsistent between the two, then aren't the results still valid?

I’m not sure tbh. Fredrik suggested that the musical differences were smaller than the sound differences, and with my recordings I tend to agree. When the network is set up correctly, the musical differences are usually quite apparent, as they are with springwood54’s. To avoid the results being misleading, I think it’s better to just ignore them.

[Spannko]

A: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dowaf4ojr2rjg ... 5.mp4?dl=0
B: https://www.dropbox.com/s/76doxxm3zm0a2 ... 9.mp4?dl=0

It’s a vote for A from me too.

[tokenbrit]

Unless it was inconsistent between the two, then aren't the results still valid?

I’m not sure tbh. Fredrik suggested that the musical differences were smaller than the sound differences, and with my recordings I tend to agree. When the network is set up correctly, the musical differences are usually quite apparent, as they are with springwood54’s. To avoid the results being misleading, I think it’s better to just ignore them.

Fair enough, but my sense was that the changes you were making were relatively minor: different router; different WAP position, within the same basic configuration. Both changes were remote from Kalla, which Fredrik found made less difference. In contrast, Pete is going from wired to wireless, so I'd expect bigger musical differences there. I still think there's some value to your results in contributing to our collective understanding, but ok with ignoring them, and awaiting more clips ;)

[springwood64]

No, it's more complex than that.

Ah! Thanks, then it's a more exciting comparison than I first thought.

Yes, I think that there's value in a simpler comparison, so tomorrow I'll post the reveal and then post comparison clips that only switch wired vs wireless, without any changes to device locations or power set up.