Defender wrote: ↑2022-01-15 12:50
for me one difference with the 308 compared to floorstanders is that I dont hear the musicality when I am in another room or upstairs. Whereas with the floorstanders I sometimes have the feeling when I am upstairs that downstairs is a private gig of the band in my house. Its not soo much about volume its more about „filling the house with music“. That is one thing I really miss.
Another thing with the 308 is that I get the feeling there is almost only one „right“ volume for the individual music (this is a neutral statement).
With the 308 I realise that I like Apple Lossless over Wave and Flac and DSD (which … meaning DSD … I formerly appreaciated really much) is the least precise and structured and engaging of the formats.
u252agz: sometimes a bass line makes fun and I turn up and the HF gets into a more unpleasant region but my room is 30 m2 and has an open kitchen/dining area attached to it so I am probably asking for too much from this tiny speakers
Wow - if I tried to do this with my 242s I would soon be having to look for a bachelor pad somewhere.
Yesterday night I had to switch to my headphones from the 308s because my daughter thought it was too loud - both doors were closed and her bedroom is a good 6 m down the corridor.
'Dr. Susan Rogers is the director of the Berklee Music Perception and Cognition Laboratory. Here’s a quote from her on one of their recent findings.
“Noise exposure caused by sounds we do not like, such as construction work, loud traffic and such, is much more damaging than the same sound pressure level caused by sounds that we like. So, when we’re being a DJ, when we’re mixing, when we’re working in the studio, when we’re playing, we’re actually not getting the same level of harm as when we’re exposed to random noise.” '
„Filling the house with music“ is in my view a very important virtue of a speaker.
A Jazz combo playing live music in a house most certainly does the same.
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
I wonder if we need to clarify what is meant by “house filling sound”? It feels as though what is being described is “low compression sound” which, I have to admit, is something I particularly enjoy too. Walking down the corridor at the HiFi shows, occasionally a sound grabs me. It’ll sound like a (usually) jazz band is playing in the room, which nearly always turns out to be a huge pair of horns. However, upon entering the room, within seconds it’s clear that the sound I’ve been attracted to has very little musical merit, which is a shame because a low compression/low distortion sound seems to be something a lot of people would describe as sounding very natural.
matthias wrote: ↑2022-01-16 16:23
Therefore we mentioned „Filling the house with music“ and not "Filling the house with sound".
But the discussion might be OT regarding this thread.
In relation to “filling the house with music”, reference to “sound” was made in addition to musicality, hence the request for clarification.
Spannko wrote: ↑2022-01-16 20:24
In relation to “filling the house with music”, reference to “sound” was made in addition to musicality, hence the request for clarification.
Yes, maybe it makes sense to open a new thread.
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
what I meant is the feeling hearing from somewhere else and asking me if there is a live band playing downstars with my floorstanders as with the JBLs I have the same feeling only when I am more closer to them meaning in the same room.
So I understand what Spannko is saying and what he describes is what I think I meant. I wouldnt reduce it to sound vs musicality. I dont think so because that would mean the floorstanders would be more musical.
I think it somehow has to do with the sound pressure and dynamic/dynamic range of the speaker. I dont know, but would like to know if others have the same impression.
What is evident with the 308 you switch on a song and within the first 1-2 seconds it clicks and you understand the tune. Whereas with the floorstanders its like on a radio station where you move up and down to find the best reception so it takes much longer until you understand the tune.
What I can imagine is that 308Ps are optimised for nearfield listening, while 3677s are optimised for listening in small theaters where all spectators have to get the full output.
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
I still have limited understanding about the 308 as of limited optimizing options but I certainly understand already what many people like with them.
I expect longer cables to arrive from Thomas soon. That lets me get rid of the adapters and let me place them at an optimal distance and symmetrical in the room.
Right now I only hear them through Akurate DS as that is easier for optimizing their position than using the LP12. Maybe I have a ground loop - I really hope so because that gives another optimizing option ;).
What I hear from them within their limits is exceptional.
Yes they are optimized for near field but dont sound like that, I am sitting 3,5meters away in a 30m2 open room. The limit is max volume but they go loud enough - only sometimes I would need more - they could go louder but than the quality goes down.
matthias wrote: ↑2022-01-16 21:15
What I can imagine is that 308Ps are optimised for nearfield listening, while 3677s are optimised for listening in small theaters where all spectators have to get the full output.
Very good point Matt.I think in general most cinema/surround speakers seem to have a high output.
Which could also explain why the 308s are easy on the ear with low listening fatigue.308s also don't fatigue like a lot of speakers I've listened to
I feel like I have to clarify a couple of things regarding my experience with 3677/TM vs 308.
1: The "live", or "realistic" feeling I'm referring to (for me the same thing as "filling the house with music") was something we experienced when we got Källa. Not with "3677". The system was: Källa - Sagatun - Tundra mono - 3677.
Before Källa I used Hakai and a decent LP12 (Lingo 3, Ekos I, Adikt, Slipsik 5) with the 3677's. They never gave this experience and Källa frankly didn't do it all the time during the burn-in.
2: The experience was much more pronounced on recordings of acoustic instruments.
If you are close to someone playing an actual instrument (lika a guitar or a trumpet, probaly not a flute) you will not only hear it, you will also feel the vibrations of it in your body, not only the deep frequencies. This was sonething that Källa and 3677 conveyed. One good example would be Alison Balsom's Libertango. Listening to it from the kitchen it was almost difficult to imagine it was not an orchestra playing in the next room. We simply don´t get this effect with 308, and consequently we are not listening to classical music during dinner anymore as we did for a short wile.
On other recordings where this "realism" was never as pronounced, I feel 308 might be superior. Prince "When doves cry" on 308 is probably the best I have ever heard it.
3: The "live" effect was very very musical. If I can have that back I would not waste five seconds trying to figure out if I could follow the "tune" better or not as i would simply not care.
4: The lack of bass was still a bit unsatisfying compared to 308.
5: My wife miss the 3677's a lot.
Last edited by Azazello on 2022-01-17 13:27, edited 1 time in total.
Spannko wrote: ↑2022-01-16 20:24
In relation to “filling the house with music”, reference to “sound” was made in addition to musicality, hence the request for clarification.
Defender wrote: ↑2022-01-16 21:31
I still have limited understanding about the 308 as of limited optimizing options but I certainly understand already what many people like with them.
I expect longer cables to arrive from Thomas soon. That lets me get rid of the adapters and let me place them at an optimal distance and symmetrical in the room.
Right now I only hear them through Akurate DS as that is easier for optimizing their position than using the LP12. Maybe I have a ground loop - I really hope so because that gives another optimizing option ;).
What I hear from them within their limits is exceptional.
Yes they are optimized for near field but dont sound like that, I am sitting 3,5meters away in a 30m2 open room. The limit is max volume but they go loud enough - only sometimes I would need more - they could go louder but than the quality goes down.
This is good review Defender. Talks a lot for the issue ...
This what you say in connection the space, is very "close to my" so ...
Thanks a lot.
Azazello wrote: ↑2022-01-17 11:46
I feel like I have to clarify a couple of things regarding my experience with 3677/TM vs 308.
1: The "live", or "realistic" feeling I'm referring to (for me the same thing as "filling the house with music") was something we experienced when we got Källa. Not with "3677". The system was: Källa - Sagatun - Tundra mono - 3677.
Before Källa I used Hakai and a decent LP12 (Lingo 3, Ekos I, Adikt, Slipsik 5) with the 3677's. They never gave this experience and Källa frankly didn't do it all the time during the burn-in.
2: The experience was much more pronounced on recordings of acoustic instruments.
If you are close to someone playing an actual instrument (lika a guitar or a trumpet, probaly not a flute) you will not only hear it, you will also feel the vibrations of it in your body, not only the deep frequencies. This was sonething that Källa and 3677 conveyed. One good example would be Alison Balsom's Libertango. Listening to it from the kitchen it was almost difficult to imagine it was not an orchestra playing in the next room. We simply don´t get this effect with 308, and consequently we are not listening to classical music during dinner anymore as we did for a short wile.
On other recordings where this "realism" was never as pronounced, I feel 308 might be superior. Prince "When doves cry" on 308 is probably the best I have ever heard it.
3: It was very very musical. If I can have that back I would not waste five seconds trying to figure out if I could follow the "tune" better or not as i would simply not care.
4: The lack of bass was still a bit unsatisfying compared to 308.
5: My wife miss the 3677's a lot.
Thank you Azazello, very valuable info!
Matt
MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
Defender wrote: ↑2022-01-16 20:46
what I meant is the feeling hearing from somewhere else and asking me if there is a live band playing downstars with my floorstanders as with the JBLs I have the same feeling only when I am more closer to them meaning in the same room.
So I understand what Spannko is saying and what he describes is what I think I meant. I wouldnt reduce it to sound vs musicality. I dont think so because that would mean the floorstanders would be more musical.
I think it somehow has to do with the sound pressure and dynamic/dynamic range of the speaker. I dont know, but would like to know if others have the same impression.
What is evident with the 308 you switch on a song and within the first 1-2 seconds it clicks and you understand the tune. Whereas with the floorstanders its like on a radio station where you move up and down to find the best reception so it takes much longer until you understand the tune.
That was the first thing I noticed about the speakers/amps as soon as I played them,I found it very easy to get into the tune.Makes picking music extremely easy.I gave up years ago trying to put an album on that I felt like listening to as it took an age to find the album.That went to browsing until i see something i fancy.Now with the 308s I just pick any album and I'm immediately enjoying/digging the album.What more could you want from a setup.Scale, twang ,etc don't seem important any more. Even at low volume the use of dynamics in the playing is still very clear and obvious.
Azazello wrote: ↑2022-01-17 11:46
I feel like I have to clarify a couple of things regarding my experience with 3677/TM vs 308.
1: The "live", or "realistic" feeling I'm referring to (for me the same thing as "filling the house with music") was something we experienced when we got Källa. Not with "3677". The system was: Källa - Sagatun - Tundra mono - 3677.
Before Källa I used Hakai and a decent LP12 (Lingo 3, Ekos I, Adikt, Slipsik 5) with the 3677's. They never gave this experience and Källa frankly didn't do it all the time during the burn-in.
2: The experience was much more pronounced on recordings of acoustic instruments.
If you are close to someone playing an actual instrument (lika a guitar or a trumpet, probaly not a flute) you will not only hear it, you will also feel the vibrations of it in your body, not only the deep frequencies. This was sonething that Källa and 3677 conveyed. One good example would be Alison Balsom's Libertango. Listening to it from the kitchen it was almost difficult to imagine it was not an orchestra playing in the next room. We simply don´t get this effect with 308, and consequently we are not listening to classical music during dinner anymore as we did for a short wile.
On other recordings where this "realism" was never as pronounced, I feel 308 might be superior. Prince "When doves cry" on 308 is probably the best I have ever heard it.
3: It was very very musical. If I can have that back I would not waste five seconds trying to figure out if I could follow the "tune" better or not as i would simply not care.
4: The lack of bass was still a bit unsatisfying compared to 308.
5: My wife miss the 3677's a lot.
Thank you Azazello, very valuable info!
I can relate to your experience and I would have had the same feeling if I were to have gone from my current Tannoy DMT-15’s to Quad ESL-57’s.
I actually went from Quads to Tannoy’s for the reasons you state above. We have a large open floor plan and listen a lot from our kitchen, the Tannoy’s are in an adjacent room. Musically the Tannoy’s are on par with the quads but the Tannoy’s have a nicer bottom end and fill up the home with music. The quads are nice when active listening in front of them but the Tannoy’s are more satisfying.
Azazello wrote: ↑2022-01-17 11:46
I feel like I have to clarify a couple of things regarding my experience with 3677/TM vs 308...
1: ...
2: ... it was almost difficult to imagine it was not an orchestra playing in the next room. We simply don´t get this effect with 308...
On other recordings where this "realism" was never as pronounced, I feel 308 might be superior...
3: ...
4: [3677's] .. lack of bass was still a bit unsatisfying...
Thank you Azazello, very valuable info!
Yes. Thank you Azazello for taking the time to clarify.
I too can relate, especially to the acoustic (& classical) experience with 3677s, but also to something missing, slightly, with well recorded modern pop/rock music.
Unless the 708Ps blend the best of both, without losing the 'live or realistic feeling', then I might have to side with Matt and keep enjoying the 3677's strengths, thanks to Kalla & Monos, while accepting the speakers' occasional weaknesses.
I’m still curious of the 708’s They should arrive in a couple of weeks so I’ll give them a try and return them and wait for TM if I don’t feel happy enough.