Playground for practical listening exercises

We use the Tune Method to evaluate performance

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Defender
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

does that mean you also like Option 2 more than Option 3 (I am asking because your opinion has much value to me)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

👍
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

I count that as a yes ;)

Isn't that interesting that with such a tiny change (wrong direction of a fuse) there is not much controversy here but with a big change like the Karousel there was much more difficulty to agree whats better.
I dont mean to bring this topic up again but it is somehow strange.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

We are dealing with a balance within the music signal we listen to through our systems and that signal is only a fraction of the real thing.

I personally think that within the fraction we listen to emphasis can be put differently and that gaining something leaves other things behind.

It is a matter of what is most important for you to believe in it as being music.

So, for me personally the Original versus Cirkus versus Karousel discussion is a matter of different emphasis on different parts of the recorded signal we listen to.
A change of balance within the signal.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Defender wrote: 2020-06-16 17:45
Isn't that interesting that with such a tiny change (wrong direction of a fuse) there is not much controversy here but with a big change like the Karousel there was much more difficulty to agree whats better.
I dont mean to bring this topic up again but it is somehow strange.
Hi Defender,
Yes, definitely interesting ...
Most probably because of Karousel (as change) is in the source and there are biggest differences and most sensible, especially on break-in, in hierarchy chain ...
Thomas I hope will post new series of clips with Karousel, with lot of playing music hours ...
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

yes even though I don’t question anymore if the Karousel is really better - I think it really is.
I am looking more forward to the comparison of the Linn Silver Interconnects - my Interconnect II is performing really great and I think it will become the new State of the Art even beating the first generation.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Defender wrote: 2020-06-17 12:10 yes even though I don’t question anymore if the Karousel is really better - I think it really is.
I am looking more forward to the comparison of the Linn Silver Interconnects - my Interconnect II is performing really great and I think it will become the new State of the Art even beating the first generation.
That will be as well interesting comparison.
How many hours have your LSI-2?
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Defender »

probably around 50-60h as we had some thunderstorms lately I didnt wanted to let the system run over night
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

Tendaberry wrote: 2020-06-16 14:05
Defender wrote: 2020-06-14 19:54
here is
Option 2 again
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kd9wzlgh4g7jz ... 3.mov?dl=0

Option 3 is the same but the fuse turned
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g7guw3xdlqqe ... 1.mov?dl=0
Definitely option 2 for me.
I just had a chance to listen to these. I prefer Option 2 in both comparisons. Easily more musical than 1, 3 seemed closer but had a weird quality about it I didn't like.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

To me no. 1 is worse in both cases.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

I prefer No 1
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

Damn. Now I have to sit on the fence after all! 😩

At least until I make a decision...........
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz »

With Amy Duncan - I prefer 1.

Am not listening to the second artist yet as my psychology book tells me that if I do, I will be subject to confirmation bias.

Will have to wait until I have fotgotten which one I preferred with Amy Duncan.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by lejonklou »

My first reaction is that 2 is better on both.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by ThomasOK »

I prefer 2 on both. More Hi-Fi but more musical as well, moves better.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

I'm for 2.
1 is worse on both clips.
On Amy clips, vocal is better on 2 ... more musical & more emotions ...
On Dave clips, everything is better on 2.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz »

ThomasOK wrote: 2020-06-25 21:52 I prefer 2 on both. More Hi-Fi but more musical as well, moves better.
I agree on both counts but prefer to listen to Amy Duncan on 1 . Something about the Hi Fi sounds , as good as they are seem to get in the way of me enjoying the song - even though it flows better with more emotion.

???
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by kallesprätt »

#1 was Designacable Catsnake cat6a Ethernet cable between switch and Hakai.

#2 was my old microconnect cable.

The Catsnake is not bad but the microconnect is better, I need to try the Blue Jeans Cables.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

Since I’m the only person to prefer 1, I thought I’d have another listen.

I’m sticking with 1, cos while 2 does the HiFi stuff ok, it just sounds too musically incoherent to my ears.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by u252agz »

I also preferred 1, accepting that 2 is more musical ( and with better Hi Fi).

Normally I will always choose the more musical as to me this means better timing , flow and foot tapping and emotion.

Often when the Hi Fi elements are better this is at the expense of musicality and choosing is a no brainier and can be done in seconds.

I have found this with Active systems, Exakt, at least in the early days, many Tweaks to Digital systems and controversial as it is, with Karousel.

The musicality’ is however better here; but to my ears there is something lost in that the backing musicians/instruments are over dominant and relegating the vocals to the background, even though everything is in tune, in fact more in tune than clip 1.

It’s as if an imaginary conductor is not quite keeping control on all the different facets of the song and the balance is shifted too much towards the backing musicians.

This annoys me and is why I prefer to listen to 1, at least with Amy Duncan.

I am not sure how this element of listening to music fits in with classical Tune Dem, which to me is timing, flow and emotions.

I suspect I am more sensitive to this aspect of listening to music than most Forum members.
Last edited by u252agz on 2020-06-27 23:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Tendaberry »

kallesprätt wrote: 2020-06-26 23:03 The Catsnake is not bad but the microconnect is better, I need to try the Blue Jeans Cables.
Clips of that would be very interesting :-)
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by Spannko »

u252agz wrote: 2020-06-27 10:12

Normally I will always choose the more musical as to me this means better timing , flow and foot tapping and emotion.

..... to my ears there is something lost in that the backing musicians/instruments are over dominant and relegating the vocals to the background, even though everything is in tune, in fact more in tune than the clip 2.

It’s as if an imaginary conductor is not quite keeping control on all the different facets of the song and the balance is shifted too much towards the backing musicians.

This annoys me and is why I prefer to listen to 1, at least with Amy Duncan.

I am not sure how this element of listening to music fits in with classical Tune Dem, which to me is timing, flow and emotions.

I suspect I am more sensitive to this aspect of listening to music than most Forum members.
It sounds like we’re hearing the same thing, but choosing different aspects of the performance to prioritise.

For me, “tune” or pitch is more objective than “timing, flow and emotions”, which introduces an element of subjectivity.

I also think that choosing the better sounding, but less tuneful option, usually takes one down the path of introducing “compounding errors” which ends up creating a nice sounding, but fundamentally unmusical system.

Consequently, my approach is to live with the most tuneful and if the sound becomes too distracting, look for another tuneful option.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by beck »

.........and for outsiders the above discussion can come across as complete nonsense but as I have experienced first hand with digital playback the smallest changes can affect the sound in completely unpredictable ways.

That is why I in the end also had to use non tunedem markers to get the sound near what I get from my analog playback chain.

Suddenly things like listening for mastertape hiss became a part of my toolbox. What really made my day was that I could move the cd sound towards the analog sound I get from the Sondek.
Not bending analog sound towards digital but the other way round.
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Re: Playground for practical listening exercices

Post by V.A.MKD »

Tendaberry wrote: 2020-06-27 11:18
kallesprätt wrote: 2020-06-26 23:03 The Catsnake is not bad but the microconnect is better, I need to try the Blue Jeans Cables.
Clips of that would be very interesting :-)
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