Preference for A2 over B2 for meTendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-23 20:41 So here are my clips with 0,55 vs. 0,85
A1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z7o35xvssk3p ... 9.mov?dl=0
A2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/smu1p9lg7s1go ... 9.mov?dl=0
B1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ih8vwz45x9qv9 ... 5.mov?dl=0
B2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg7qnzu717sug ... 2.mov?dl=0
Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
For me both A clips sound significantly better. More feeling and warmer.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
For me A Clips, more musical especially on "1"and from HiFi point of view on A Clips is better definition on "Low specter" ... continue in that direction ... if possible to get even better "Low" definition ... you know what I mean ...Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-23 20:41 So here are my clips with 0,55 vs. 0,85
A1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5z7o35xvssk3p ... 9.mov?dl=0
A2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/smu1p9lg7s1go ... 9.mov?dl=0
B1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ih8vwz45x9qv9 ... 5.mov?dl=0
B2: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kg7qnzu717sug ... 2.mov?dl=0
Music First ...
Vlado
Vlado
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
A for me , both times.
B sounds good but timing and musicality much better ( to my ears) with A
B sounds good but timing and musicality much better ( to my ears) with A
Kalla/Sag M/Tun M3/242/LP12/Slip7
Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e
Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
Kalla/Giella Pi/JBL308/RS2e
Majik LP12/Boazu/110s
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Well gentlemen, we have a conundrum: Everybody preferred 0,55 Nm, as opposed to a unanimous preference for 0,8 on Spannko's Akudoriks. Could it be, that the values are different for Akudorik and Akubarik?? I have been living with 0,55 Nm on my Akubariks for more than a year now and like it a lot.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Interesting ...Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-24 09:57 Well gentlemen, we have a conundrum: Everybody preferred 0,55 Nm, as opposed to a unanimous preference for 0,8 on Spannko's Akudoriks. Could it be, that the values are different for Akudorik and Akubarik?? I have been living with 0,55 Nm on my Akubariks for more than a year now and like it a lot.
One question, on which drivers was done torque in 2 different cases ... woofers or 3k or ... ???
Music First ...
Vlado
Vlado
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
In my comparison, only on the 3KV.A.MKD wrote: ↑2020-04-24 10:09Interesting ...Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-24 09:57 Well gentlemen, we have a conundrum: Everybody preferred 0,55 Nm, as opposed to a unanimous preference for 0,8 on Spannko's Akudoriks. Could it be, that the values are different for Akudorik and Akubarik?? I have been living with 0,55 Nm on my Akubariks for more than a year now and like it a lot.
One question, on which drivers was done torque in 2 different cases ... woofers or 3k or ... ???
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Very interesting!Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-24 09:57 Well gentlemen, we have a conundrum: Everybody preferred 0,55 Nm, as opposed to a unanimous preference for 0,8 on Spannko's Akudoriks. Could it be, that the values are different for Akudorik and Akubarik?? I have been living with 0,55 Nm on my Akubariks for more than a year now and like it a lot.
Yes, it's certainly possible that the optimal torque differs from speaker to speaker, although the drive unit or array remains the same. Paolo found this on Linn's older models 212-242 (1.6 Nm) and 350 (1.9 Nm).
If this is the case, it's quite an interesting discovery. Does the baffle construction differ between the two models? That could explain it. The baffle size certainly isn't the same.
What happens when you go far above 0.8? For instance to 1.6?
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Great stuff Tendaberry, it just goes to show how important individual experimentation is.Tendaberry wrote: ↑2020-04-24 09:57 Well gentlemen, we have a conundrum: Everybody preferred 0,55 Nm, as opposed to a unanimous preference for 0,8 on Spannko's Akudoriks. Could it be, that the values are different for Akudorik and Akubarik?? I have been living with 0,55 Nm on my Akubariks for more than a year now and like it a lot.
I’ve listened to your clips again and now agree with you and everyone else that A is better. I must have been having an “off” day. That’s my excuse, and I’m sticking to it!
It’s just occurred to me that maybe the torques vary from speaker to speaker because of the frequency and amplitude of the vibrations going into the 3K array, from the cabinet? So the torque is tuning a mechanical filter which helps to protect the fine movements of the mid, high & super tweeter ?
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
I have got the Akudoriks with Katalyst and KEDSM. For me, with my speakers the 0,55 is much better in every aspect, too.
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
The width of the speakers is different: 304 mm for the Akudorik and 351 mm for the Akubarik. I cannot measure the baffle now, but it looks wider on the Akubariks. I'm sceptical about a torque value as high as 1,6 but might try it.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
I have fairly new Akudoriks and assume they were torqued correctly in the factory before shipping. I also assume that Linn use either air powered or electric tools to torque the bolts when assembling. The closest I have to that is a Makita 18v drill with a bit that does fit the bolts. The Makita has torque settings ranging from 1 to 10. I might try 3 to start with and see if they move at all.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
hi Naimless - I would recommend not to do that and rather get a manual torque driver ... that gives you more flexibility, more repeatability and you can start with much lower values. The tool to go to is the Sturtevant but there are other tools like Wima etc. but Sturtevant is the one most of us use so you would have a benefit for torques we share.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Hi Spannko,
How are you getting on at 0.55Nm? I’ve got a pair of Akudoriks and am following this thread with great interest!
How are you getting on at 0.55Nm? I’ve got a pair of Akudoriks and am following this thread with great interest!
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
This has to be a wind-up. Everyone knows that real audiophiles drills go up to 11.Naimless wrote: ↑2020-04-26 19:05 I have fairly new Akudoriks and assume they were torqued correctly in the factory before shipping. I also assume that Linn use either air powered or electric tools to torque the bolts when assembling. The closest I have to that is a Makita 18v drill with a bit that does fit the bolts. The Makita has torque settings ranging from 1 to 10. I might try 3 to start with and see if they move at all.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
DON'T!Naimless wrote: ↑2020-04-26 19:05 I have fairly new Akudoriks and assume they were torqued correctly in the factory before shipping. I also assume that Linn use either air powered or electric tools to torque the bolts when assembling. The closest I have to that is a Makita 18v drill with a bit that does fit the bolts. The Makita has torque settings ranging from 1 to 10. I might try 3 to start with and see if they move at all.
Electric tools can be much too strong and the torque settings completely random. You risk breaking the bolt, cracking the array or compressing the baffle.
Tighten by hand when a proper torque tool is not available!
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Hi Gussy,
I intended to listen at 0.55Nm for a couple of days, but gave up after a couple of hours. In my system, 0.55Nm appeared to struggle with pitch and timing. For me, going back to 0.8Nm seemed to make the music much more enjoyable.
If you’ve got a torque driver, I really recommend that you try it for yourself. It’s probably the easiest of all the tweaks to our systems, and is just as easily reversed. Unless, that is, you break the bond between the threaded insert and the cabinet, so I wouldn’t go above about 1Nm.
There’s another reason for doing your own experiments, and that’s to do with inter-torque driver consistency. Fredrik and Thomas have agreed on 0.85Nm, which underlines the benefit of matched drivers. I prefer a setting of 0.8Nm on my driver (Wera), which has an accuracy of +/- 6%, so the real value could be anywhere between about 0.75Nm & 0.85Nm, which is consistent with Thomas & Fredrik’s findings.
If we assume that the “ideal” value is 0.85Nm, a setting of 0.80Nm to 0.90Nm would be consistent with their findings (if our drivers have an accuracy of +/- 6%, the international standard), however if our tools are getting on a bit it may be prudent to look for our favourite setting between 0.75Nm & 0.95Nm, which again would be consistent with Fredrik & Thomas’s findings, due to torque drivers loosing their accuracy with time.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Thanks Spannko, I also had a hi-fi session this afternoon - 0.55 didn’t last 5 mins, I went up to 0.8 after the first piece - much better. But I’m curious about what you mean by the ‘bond between the insert and the cabinet...’ Doesn’t the bolt attach to a ‘nut’ embedded in the cabinet....?
Thanks again, Gussy
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Hi Gussy,
You’re right, there are ‘nuts’ which are screwed into the rear of the front baffle, but the bond between the nut and baffle will break down once its ability to resist turning is exceeded. Unfortunately, I know from experience that this can be as low as 1.5Nm, hence the suggestion to not exceed 1.0Nm.
You’re right, there are ‘nuts’ which are screwed into the rear of the front baffle, but the bond between the nut and baffle will break down once its ability to resist turning is exceeded. Unfortunately, I know from experience that this can be as low as 1.5Nm, hence the suggestion to not exceed 1.0Nm.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Thanks Spannko, very interesting!Spannko wrote: ↑2020-04-27 21:27 Hi Gussy,
You’re right, there are ‘nuts’ which are screwed into the rear of the front baffle, but the bond between the nut and baffle will break down once its ability to resist turning is exceeded. Unfortunately, I know from experience that this can be as low as 1.5Nm, hence the suggestion to not exceed 1.0Nm.
I’ve currently got the 3k at 0.8 and the bass driver at 1.0 and everything sounds good at the moment so I’ll leave it at that for the time being...
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Actually it does 😃. But 11 is no torque just drill. Don’t want to use that.Spannko wrote: ↑2020-04-27 12:29This has to be a wind-up. Everyone knows that real audiophiles drills go up to 11.Naimless wrote: ↑2020-04-26 19:05 I have fairly new Akudoriks and assume they were torqued correctly in the factory before shipping. I also assume that Linn use either air powered or electric tools to torque the bolts when assembling. The closest I have to that is a Makita 18v drill with a bit that does fit the bolts. The Makita has torque settings ranging from 1 to 10. I might try 3 to start with and see if they move at all.
Trying to find the recommended tool here in the UK, but proving hard to find.
Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
I struggled to find one of the recommended torque tools here in the UK but have added it to my watchlist on eBay. I managed to find a small electronic torque screwdriver and purchased one for the time being. It’s actually very good. I set it to 0.8nm and tightened my 3k array on my Akudoriks and was surprised how loose they were considering they are only a few months old. Definitely sounds tighter and vocals less shouty.
I am unsure how to access the bolts of the bass driver so haven’t tried to tighten them yet. If anyone can give me advise on how to get to the bolts of the bass driver, it would be much appreciated.
I am unsure how to access the bolts of the bass driver so haven’t tried to tighten them yet. If anyone can give me advise on how to get to the bolts of the bass driver, it would be much appreciated.
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Re: Recommended tool for 242 3 k array torque settings
Just as a matter of interest, I tightened my 3K’s to ‘my preferred’ 0.9Nm tonight and really didn’t like the result. After dropping to 0.8Nm (Thomas’ favourite) I was happy again. In fact, very happy. Then I read the above posts only to discover I actually preferred 0.8Nm when we did the test 9 months ago and I’d totally forgotten!! Oh well, at least I’m consistent! 🤷♀️