HAKAI playground

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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FairPlayMotty
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-10-04 22:17

Please share your listening impressions about MoOde, I am very curious.
Thanks
Please share your listening impressions about MoOde, I am very curious.
Thanks

Matt
I wish I could Matt but Moode went down the RPI road exclusively from memory. It's a shame because the reviews are very good. Who knows, they may release a version for the Tinkerboard S. I certainly hope so.

I'm about to have my new network up and running so expect some new clips including some from the Asus Tinkerboard S soon. And I will post a clip of the new case I got from China for Hakai number three. Once I have the two Tinkerboards up and running I'll have an embarrassing number of players. Still, you can't have too much music!
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2019-10-05 00:07

FairPlayMotty wrote:
2019-10-04 22:17
I wish I could Matt but Moode went down the RPI road exclusively from memory. It's a shame because the reviews are very good.
Just a suggestion to try the new Allo USBridge Signature with MoOde.
There is a very good first listening impression on diyaudio:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor- ... ost5934007

Maybe an alternative to Tinker Board S.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-26 01:54

Everything is a remix: Copy, Transform, Combine.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Spannko » 2019-12-26 02:25

Even though the first clips are much louder than the second clips (which would usually give the first clips an advantage), I preferred the second clips.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-26 03:52

Interesting, the Linn amp volumes were the same.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-26 04:07

My issue with the telephone recordings is simple. First, the recordings sound nothing like I'm hearing in the room. Second, they're assumed to be consistently inaccurate which, for me, is a large leap of faith. And Gdrive refuses to upload Source1Clip1 accurately. The nonsense at the end of that clip is not on the original, I tried three times to have the accurate version with no joy.

Cloud storage is a great concept. The companies must prove it's accurate to get my cash.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by matthias » 2019-12-26 18:47

I preferred the first clips, they seem to be more involving.
Is the processing of these via a device with a higher power CPU?

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-27 00:57

I thought the first clips were better. Funny how the volume differs!

Regarding your thoughts on recorded in-room clips, I understand you perfectly. They don't sound like what one experiences in the room, but if one accepts that premise and just keep an open minded attitude, they can be very illuminating. I have learned a lot from later listening to clips of tiny, even silly differences, that I've recorded in my living room and thought I've understood completely then and there. But that's my own clips, recorded on my own phone set in flight mode and later listened to through headphones.

Cloud storage brings another dimension of problems into the picture. Lately we've experienced a bunch of odd things happening to clips when we store them on some server and then share them with others. It goes beyond small differences and into the territory of not-bit-perfect or even far-from-bit-perfect. I don't really understand this, but it seems that video files are not treated the same way as a program or an excel sheet, where no faults in the data can be detected. Perhaps someone with more insight can share a light on this, as there are sometimes grave inconsistencies after a video has been moved around between cloud storages.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-27 09:08

Flight mode is a great idea, I had to re-record after getting notifications on my phone.

One player is in a very basic computer case with a very dubious power supply. If I have time today I'll rebuild it in a Streacom or RGeek case with a good quality power supply. I need to transfer the Hakai server to a bigger case - it's too warm in a Streacom case. The Jonsbo cases look like a good option but I'll buy something today.

Bitrot etc, I fully understand and I know how to protect against it. The inaccuracies of cloud storage I wasn't prepared for. I need to re-think storage of non audio files.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-31 00:34

New set of clips, two changes. The main one is to use the same pre-amplifier for both. Opinions are welcomed.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EtSD_ ... b0QQ-_Pg92
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Eqwmp ... VXTUMnoqIq

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1EtZOe ... HWp26f5SG4
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Embdt ... dcm29uI-jX

Hopefully these match in volume.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2019-12-31 01:01

I prefer the first clips.

The second clips sound a bit like they've been compressed, which highlights more of the fainter sounds. But they engaged me less than the second clips, especially on the first listen.

Why two changes? Best is to always make just one change, unless they're interdependent. If they're not, one could be an improvement and the other a loss.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-31 02:41

One change was just to give them the same input from the pre-amp. The other was to remove the isolation card so that it was as close as possible to one motherboard vs the other.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2019-12-31 18:20

So when you say two changes you are not referring to two changes made between first clips and the second clips but rather from the previous clips? So the only change this time from the first clips to the second ones is the removal of the isolation card?

Whatever the case, I also prefer the first clips in both cases. On the first set of clips I rather enjoyed the first clip and listened to it all the way through. I wanted to stop the second one almost right away but listened long enough to let the voice come in and verify what I was hearing. I found the second one to be more Hi-Fi with details pushed forward and a lack of integration and movement. The second set basically echoed the first, the instruments just sounded like they weren't playing together on the clip 2 version.

It is a little confusing talking about first clip and second clip of first set and second set. But it was the Clip 1 versions I preferred in both cases.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2019-12-31 19:58

The two changes were the removal of the isolation card and getting both sources from the same input on the preamplifier. So before it was motherboard and isolation card vs motherboard. Now it's just motherboard vs motherboard.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-01-03 03:23

Good morning,

Apologies in advance for any volume differences in the following clips from three different motherboards. They all used the same Linn preamplifier input but the volume differences between the boards is around twenty Linn preamp volume levels.

Your opinions on the following are welcomed:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n3rBg ... ix-psdB3vP
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nEEal ... nGu-WEBlqr
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1n3bxD ... IZhnxiWsQl
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Tendaberry » 2020-01-03 12:38

I believe I would go with number 2

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by Lego » 2020-01-03 13:29

clip 2 for me
I know that tune

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by ThomasOK » 2020-01-03 17:53

Clip 1 ouch, clip 3 dead, clip 2 is the one I would pick of these three.

But somebody needs to tell her she is singing too close to the microphone. I suppose some may think all that breathy stuff is sexy, but I just find it a sign the artist/producer doesn't know what good vocals, as opposed to vocal gymnastics, are all about. IMHO!
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-01-04 22:56

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-01-03 17:53


But somebody needs to tell her she is singing too close to the microphone. I suppose some may think all that breathy stuff is sexy, but I just find it a sign the artist/producer doesn't know what good vocals, as opposed to vocal gymnastics, are all about. IMHO!
My clip choice was constrained by a re-introduction to Volumio :) I'd pass the advice on but she's been dead for almost twenty years. She did leave us with one very good album.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2020-01-05 00:06

Clip 2 for me two. That one was enjoyable.

Please tell us about the differences.

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Breathy Sexy Stuff

Post by Ron The Mon » 2020-01-05 05:08

ThomasOK wrote:
2020-01-03 17:53
Clip 1 ouch, clip 3 dead, clip 2 is the one I would pick of these three.

But somebody needs to tell her she is singing too close to the microphone. I suppose some may think all that breathy stuff is sexy, but I just find it a sign the artist/producer doesn't know what good vocals, as opposed to vocal gymnastics, are all about. IMHO!
I agree with Tom except for two caveats:

First, there is a huge difference between these three clips. Clip 3 is super dead. Really flat. Tuneless. Clip 1 would have been bad enough if I hadn't heard 3.

I don't like excessive breathiness; however, it is better than no breath. I am often at public events when the speaker (especially women) holds the microphone far away from their mouth. The advice I used to give is, "Eat the microphone.". Now I tell people (usually amateurs speaking through a public address system) to pretend the microphone is an ice cream cone; hold it close enough to lick it but not touch your mouth. This advice also allows most omni-directional microphones to be at an angle to get the best sound with no wind or crowd noise.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-01-05 09:11

In the last three clips something very odd happened with clip one. I was unusually recording with my old phone. The other two are accurate. Clip one wasn't. I played it again this morning and it sounds great via source one.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by FairPlayMotty » 2020-01-05 09:34

lejonklou wrote:
2020-01-05 00:06
Clip 2 for me two. That one was enjoyable.

Please tell us about the differences.
The overall results of the clips indicate that the Intel DN2800MT sounds best, the Gigabyte Hakai boards still sound good.

I have separately recorded the Intel DN2800MT with and without the isolation card in place and, much to my surprise, the isolation card does seem to be effective.

The sets of clips just verify what I've heard in the room from the day I received the first Intel DN2800MT board. The Intel DN2800MT sounds better to my ears over a very wide array of music.

Matt asked about the CPU influence. The CPU of the Intel DN2800MT is lower power than the Celeron in the Gigabyte boards. I believe that the simplicity of the board and the low noise/low CPU are just a further extension of the logic that made the Gigabyte boards sound great. Obviously there's an element of luck in the way the manufacturer got the board to sound great but it's worth remembering that the two motherboards that Tasso (the major contributor of the Oz thread) used were the Jetway board [unavailable] and the Intel DN2800MT which use the exact same processor. There was much testing that got them to those boards. Several people on the extensive threads tried other boards including Celeron and right up to the Intel Core i7. They all went back to the Atom boards.

I received three other Intel DN2800MT motherboards and as soon as the other kit I ordered arrives I will build the new server based on one of these boards and test whether it sounds better as a server than the Gigabyte boards.

There is much more testing needed to be conclusive on here but I am in no doubt that the board inside a used Intel computer for £50 is the best sounding board I've heard so far.

Clip three was the Asus Tinker Board.
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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by lejonklou » 2020-01-05 13:27

FairPlayMotty wrote:
2020-01-05 09:11
In the last three clips something very odd happened with clip one. I was unusually recording with my old phone. The other two are accurate. Clip one wasn't. I played it again this morning and it sounds great via source one.
FairPlayMotty wrote:
2020-01-05 09:34
The overall results of the clips indicate that the Intel DN2800MT sounds best, the Gigabyte Hakai boards still sound good.
Sorry, FairPlayMotty, but you have lost me.

IF the three last clips are valid, could you please write down the exact specifications for the tech used behind all three clips? 1, 2 and 3.

IF the three last clips are invalid, it's best to remove them and all replies.

It's very easy to get lost in these comparisons and therefore it's important that we simplify and keep an extreme attention to detail. Both when rigging the alternatives, recording them and accounting for the actual differences after the voting on the clips.

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Re: HAKAI playground

Post by David Neel » 2020-01-05 15:44

lejonklou wrote:
2020-01-05 13:27

Sorry, FairPlayMotty, but you have lost me.

It's very easy to get lost in these comparisons and therefore it's important that we simplify and keep an extreme attention to detail. Both when rigging the alternatives, recording them and accounting for the actual differences after the voting on the clips.
You lost me too! And I have history in disappearing down evaluation rabbit-holes :)

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