Volumio.

A DIY digital music streamer with exceptional performance

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Paaf
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Yes, I did those updates already because I was following your instructions :)

Which Volumio version are the instructions written for? I have 2.502 and since the upmpdcli changes worked, I continued with that version. Mistake?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

Paaf wrote: 2018-11-24 15:23 Yes, I did those updates already because I was following your instructions :)

Which Volumio version are the instructions written for? I have 2.502 and since the upmpdcli changes worked, I continued with that version. Mistake?
I am on 2.394 dev build, which had a newer kernel then current version(s).
http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
Last edited by Sopper on 2018-11-26 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Great, that might explain the difference. I have the file volumio-2.394-2018-04-14-x86.img.zip

For anyone reading, please do NOT use the menu-install that I mentioned above. It's not going to be 100% as good. (Volumio people confirmed it to me.)
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

I have now installed 2.394, this time I did it by the "book", using the double usb-sticks. The first two installs actually failed miserably, the first "burn" of the usb-stick must have failed. Burn again and try again, and everything went crazy... but third time, perfection.

The good news is that its music now makes me smile! Must be a good sign, right? :) It kind of... bounces!

The bad news is that I still get stuck on trying to update MPD. At the exact same place as for version 2.502.

Code: Select all

dpkg-buildpackage: host architecture i386
 fakeroot debian/rules clean
dh clean
dh: Sorry, but 10 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.
debian/rules:127: recipe for target 'clean' failed
make: *** [clean] Error 25
dpkg-buildpackage: error: fakeroot debian/rules clean gave error exit status 2
debuild: fatal error at line 1376:
dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -us -uc -i -b failed
Done
Paaf
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

For some reason I could continue despite the errors, so I could finally run MPD 0.20.21. Then I did it all over again for 0.20.23 which gave no errors and runs well.

My goal with all this work was to get rid of the playlist bug, but it is still there!

There are also 0.21.x versions but I gave up after much time. They have changed to a very complicated build system that requires a very considerable effort to even begin the build...

I can not swear re musicality because I'd need an ABA test between all the versions.

On another point, I know that the original HAKAI posts recommends the Audio buffer to be set to 128 KB. I finally couldn't take the slight stuttering any longer and tried with 2 MB and that seems to work much better for me. Would like to know the reason 128 KB was recommended. Is it more musical than for instance 2 MB?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

I have set the buffer in mpd.conf to 2048 and buffer before play to 20%
I tried all options, but this one seems the best in performance.
1024 has never worked for me either
Paaf wrote: 2018-11-25 05:39 My goal with all this work was to get rid of the playlist bug, but it is still there!
Explain this again, please
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
Paaf
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Sopper wrote: 2018-11-25 09:37 I have set the buffer in mpd.conf to 2048 and buffer before play to 20%
I tried all options, but this one seems the best in performance.
1024 has never worked for me either
Thanks for that confirmation, I thought I was the only one experiencing stutter.

I never tested 1024 since it's not an option in the Volumio GUI. Does mpd.conf override the settings in the GUI, or the opposite?
Sopper wrote: 2018-11-25 09:37
Paaf wrote: 2018-11-25 05:39 My goal with all this work was to get rid of the playlist bug, but it is still there!
Explain this again, please
Sure. I use the old BubbleDS app which works perfectly with my other streamer. On HAKAI, the queue is cleared when I click STOP, or when it has played to the end.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

Paaf wrote: 2018-11-25 17:44 Thanks for that confirmation, I thought I was the only one experiencing stutter.

I never tested 1024 since it's not an option in the Volumio GUI. Does mpd.conf override the settings in the GUI, or the opposite?
128K doesnt exist. The GUI shows it, but in fact it's 1024 in mpd.conf
Changes in the GUI override mpd.conf or rather; it edits mpd.conf
Paaf wrote: 2018-11-25 05:39
Sure. I use the old BubbleDS app which works perfectly with my other streamer. On HAKAI, the queue is cleared when I click STOP, or when it has played to the end.
Can you check if this is also the case with Linn Kazoo and/or Lumin?
We have to be sure if it's caused by Volumio or the control app.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Sopper wrote: 2018-11-25 18:56 Changes in the GUI override mpd.conf or rather; it edits mpd.conf
Excellent.
Sopper wrote: 2018-11-25 18:56 Can you check if this is also the case with Linn Kazoo and/or Lumin?
We have to be sure if it's caused by Volumio or the control app.
Same issue in Linn Kazoo.

Lumin automatically switches my preamp to the internal streamer and, as far as I can tell, does not know anything about HAKAI. Perhaps there's a way?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

I now tested MPD 0.20.21 vs MPD 0.20.23 and the former is more musical (despite not compiling correctly).

Actually, it's a confusing experience. Any detail that I listen for, you know, "more tuneful bass line" etc just didn't work. Everything is identical but.. the latter one just sounds boring. Did you ever get that?

I would have tested against the default version too, but I don't know how to revert to it without reinstalling all of Volumio.

Also.. and this is weird... I am beginning to suspect that Kazoo is more musical than BubbleDS?! What do you think?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by lejonklou »

Paaf wrote: 2018-11-26 10:56 I now tested MPD 0.20.21 vs MPD 0.20.23 and the former is more musical (despite not compiling correctly).

Actually, it's a confusing experience. Any detail that I listen for, you know, "more tuneful bass line" etc just didn't work. Everything is identical but.. the latter one just sounds boring. Did you ever get that?
YES!

This was exactly what I heard when comparing various old versions of Volumio.

I reported my experience to them and they said "that's weird, because we didn't change anything related to the playback". To which I replied that the other bits have an influence too, sometimes a very strong one, even though we currently don't fully understand the mechanisms involved.

They probably concluded that a constant validation of sound quality would make firmware debugging around one hundred times more time consuming, and then decided to forget all about it.

I have no idea about Kazoo versus Bubble DS.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

Paaf wrote: 2018-11-25 20:59
Lumin automatically switches my preamp to the internal streamer and, as far as I can tell, does not know anything about HAKAI. Perhaps there's a way?
LUMIN needs the value “Lumincompat” = 1 in upmpdcli.conf
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Sopper wrote: 2018-11-26 18:42 LUMIN needs the value “Lumincompat” = 1 in upmpdcli.conf
Thanks. I tried Lumin, and also the free BubbleUPNP. All have the same issue. You never experienced this?
lejonklou wrote: 2018-11-26 12:35 This was exactly what I heard when comparing various old versions of Volumio.
Thank you for writing this! Unless it's a folie à deux... :) we can probably conclude that there's something very real going on.
lejonklou wrote: 2018-11-26 12:35 I reported my experience to them and they said "that's weird, because we didn't change anything related to the playback". To which I replied that the other bits have an influence too, sometimes a very strong one, even though we currently don't fully understand the mechanisms involved.

They probably concluded that a constant validation of sound quality would make firmware debugging around one hundred times more time consuming, and then decided to forget all about it.
My intuition tells me that some error or bug causes some thread to be "busy" where it shouldn't be, hence stealing resources from other threads or services, indirectly causing timing imperfections.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by lejonklou »

Paaf wrote: 2018-11-27 06:08
lejonklou wrote: 2018-11-26 12:35 This was exactly what I heard when comparing various old versions of Volumio.
Thank you for writing this! Unless it's a folie à deux... :) we can probably conclude that there's something very real going on.
lejonklou wrote: 2018-11-26 12:35 I reported my experience to them and they said "that's weird, because we didn't change anything related to the playback". To which I replied that the other bits have an influence too, sometimes a very strong one, even though we currently don't fully understand the mechanisms involved.

They probably concluded that a constant validation of sound quality would make firmware debugging around one hundred times more time consuming, and then decided to forget all about it.
My intuition tells me that some error or bug causes some thread to be "busy" where it shouldn't be, hence stealing resources from other threads or services, indirectly causing timing imperfections.
That would cause a major loss of sound quality, yes. But that's not the likely cause in this case. A small change of code is enough.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit »

Is there consensus on the preferred version(s) of Volumio? Poor musicality would be more of a showstopper for me than a few bugs unless they are critical... I don't mind the occasional reboot, but understand that severity of bugs can be somewhat subjective. I think we're all looking for music & basic reliability - curious whether certain versions achieve that better than others.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by fatjulio »

It seems there would only be 3 versions that could be tested. The June release that I think everyone wold have. The development build from April, and the new one recently released.

I've been trying to do the mpd update on the June version, but it fails in the build stage. Will this only work for the development version? (which I do have)
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

fatjulio wrote: 2018-11-27 18:31 It seems there would only be 3 versions that could be tested. The June release that I think everyone wold have. The development build from April, and the new one recently released.

I've been trying to do the mpd update on the June version, but it fails in the build stage. Will this only work for the development version? (which I do have)
Not sure, but it should work with any version really.
It relies on correct versions of dependencies though.

I am preparing 2 usb stick:
1. Volumio 2.411
2. Volumio 2.502
Will try to configure them with different mpd versions, to see if that makes any difference in the tune.
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Since different versions of Volumio have different tune, some people want to compare various versions. It turned out to be difficult to find some versions. I share what I found here.

Versions 1.x can be found at https://sourceforge.net/projects/volumio . It would be very cool if someone tries some 1.x for tune!

Versions 2.x can be found like this:
2.348 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
2.368 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
2.387 http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
and there's a pattern there from which one can do detective work. For instance, 2.411 (Fredrik says it's a good one in the definition thread of HAKAI) has the release date 2018-06-17, but using that date in the link didn't work. Trial and error allowed me to find the link:
http://updates.volumio.org/x86/volumio/ ... 86.img.zip
Last edited by Paaf on 2018-12-09 22:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

I have been busy whole week with different Volumio versions.
I cannot get any version running stable...

Yesterday I discovered that I can play any 24 bit files perfectly and all 16 bit files crashing MPD or UPMPDCLI. I just can’t think of any reason of this behaviour... so waiting for help @ Volumio forum.
(All 24 bit music plays perfect, local NAS as well as Qobuz)

I managed to upgrade MPD to 0.20.23, the last release of the “20” series.
The “21” series is very hard to build; Debian Jessie is too old and it requires a lot of newer dependencies.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Paaf »

Did you find a version that is more tuneful than others?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

Paaf wrote: 2018-12-09 20:43 Did you find a version that is more tuneful than others?
Been busy trying to get things work, so haven’t paid much attention to tunefulness
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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Re: Volumio.

Post by tokenbrit »

How is everyone using Volumio: as a renderer, with a media server on a NAS and a control point, as used with a Linn DS, or with Volumio's NFS client and a mount to the NAS as an NFS server?
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Re: Volumio.

Post by David Neel »

As a renderer.
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
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Re: Volumio.

Post by flojo »

As a renderer using all the settings Sopper suggest. But Volumio keeps on crashing.
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Re: Volumio.

Post by Sopper »

Doh...
I missed some steps in updating mpd.
Volumio installs MPD in /user/bin
All files related (/etc/init.d/mpd and /lib/systemd/system/mpd.service) point to that location.

MPD from musicpd.org is not specifically compiled for Volumio and installs MPD in /user/local/bin
So it doesn’t overwrite the MPD in Volumio, but installs a different version.
This version doesn’t run, because the Volumio files point to /usr/bin

When I check version, the system gives me the highest version of MPD, fooling me that everything is ok.

Now I removed the Volumio mpd and edited all files to point to the new MPD location.
Running MPD version 0.20.23 now and surprise.... I can again play all my music.
Since this is all done in Volumio 2.513 I also have Qobuz in the web-ui with subscription.

Let’s hope it keeps playing like this...
# HAKAI # Sagatun mono + Tundra mono # Harbeth SHL5+ 40th Ann # Mogami Neglex III 2803 + 2804
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