Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 14:37

DavidHB wrote:
mbabst wrote:Upgrade DS to Katalyst DS is still possible? Otherwise the value of every DS without Katalyst literally dropped to 0.
As I understood it, it remained possible after the DS to DSM upgrades were discontinued. What I don't know is whether it will remain possible (at least for a time) once there are no current DS models. And, like you, I see that as a concern. Has there been any information on that point from Linn in the wake of the recent announcements?

David
I guess the October price list will show what upgrades are still being offered. And your region has had their dealer conference, they should be able to tell you.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-21 14:52

Macallan wrote:Thanks for all the interesting information!!

One thing keeps me scratching my head:
ThomasOK wrote:Yep, I mainly covered the hardware. Linn also did announce a new and completely revamped Space Optimisation. The new version is said to be a dynamic solution which accounts for pressure changes in a room over time, will model non-rectangular rooms and targets the decay of room modes, as well as the amplitude. At the dealer workshop in response to a question it was said that it didn't yet handle vaulted ceilings optimally but that capability was coming relatively soon as well. It is a new web based user interface and I have heard some mention that it computes on the web allowing it to work even with the earliest DS units regardless of internal computing power. I am a little unsure about how Linn is going about releasing this as it mainly talks about dealers using it to optimize systems for their customers and making it available on the dealer portal.
IMO there is no real reason to move SO to the cloud (if that's whats going to happen), and I do not like the idea to depend on external internet connection & some remote server to update the SO profile.

Pressure changes over time... OK, so they apparently look up the location & atmospheric pressure in some database and adapt the notch filters accordingly. Could also done in local Konfig on the user's computer (with the option to look up the pressure somewhere)

Computes on the web allowing it to work even with the earliest DS units... I don't get this, the SO filters are never computed on the DS, but in Konfig on the computer. They are then uploaded to the DS which has to apply them real-time (which every DS is apparently able to do, anyway).



Am I missing something?
Yes. I think you’re misinterpreting “Pressure change over time” as being atmospheric pressure. I strongly suspect they’ve done a lot of work on how pressure waves decay over time in the room and reverberation time (if they aren’t both the same thing?) IIRC, this is what Philbo implied that Robert Cammidge (?) was to work on months ago, possibly early last year.

My understanding of moving SO to the cloud is that early DS models don’t have the processing power to do all the sums involved. I can’t see that this would be done “on the fly” rather just the initial processing with an algorithm being passed down to the DS.

I may be wrong, of course, nothing unusual there.

And, again, if it’s so much more effective than the current SO, it won’t need as much tweaking, so why leave it to a dealer to draw my room plan. I’m perfectly capable of doing that myself. I’m not convinced there are many dealers out there who are as well versed in SO as some of the long standing DS(M) owners, or “Tune dem” for that matter, while I’m on my soapbox.

‘troll
Last edited by Moomintroll on 2018-09-21 16:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 15:09

Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by mbabst » 2018-09-21 15:17

timster wrote:
DavidHB wrote:
mbabst wrote:Upgrade DS to Katalyst DS is still possible? Otherwise the value of every DS without Katalyst literally dropped to 0.
As I understood it, it remained possible after the DS to DSM upgrades were discontinued. What I don't know is whether it will remain possible (at least for a time) once there are no current DS models. And, like you, I see that as a concern. Has there been any information on that point from Linn in the wake of the recent announcements?

David
I guess the October price list will show what upgrades are still being offered. And your region has had their dealer conference, they should be able to tell you.
That's too late. I'll sell my DS before it will loose more of it's value after it is clear that nothing is possible anymore. That's too much of uncertainty right now to keep it.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-21 15:20

timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
Tom O’Keefe said earlier that the software would be out next week (25th), although just SO, not SO+ yet. Although there seems to be a suggestion that the new SO will be done in the cloud, and only via the dealer portal. This is what I’m complaining about, above. Physical product seems to early October.

New 350 firmware appeared in beta yesterday, but there was no explanation of what it did in the release notes, so I haven’t applied it.

‘troll

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Tendaberry » 2018-09-21 15:57

timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
I talked to my dealer today and he said they begin shipping in about one week.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Matteo » 2018-09-21 15:59

https://www.linn.co.uk/speakers-and-amp ... exaktbox-i

The Linn website still has the image of Majik Exaktbox-I
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 16:08

Tendaberry wrote:
timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
I talked to my dealer today and he said they begin shipping in about one week.
Thanks. So we should expect Pins any time soon.
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Moomintroll » 2018-09-21 16:09

Matteo wrote:https://www.linn.co.uk/speakers-and-amp ... exaktbox-i

The Linn website still has the image of Majik Exaktbox-I

That shouldn’t come as a surprise, Matteo. Have a look at the latest item on the “News” page - it’s for the 530 Fabrik in 2016! I suspect the answer will be “if we didn’t spend as much time moderating the forum, we could keep the website up to date”

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Music Lover » 2018-09-21 16:12

A lot of raving about the modularity in this thread.
Only me that don't like that?

With modules, a lot of connections and drop of performance.
However, I understand it make sense in an "all-in-all" product adding flexibility.
It's all about musical understanding!

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 16:14

Moomintroll wrote:
timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
Tom O’Keefe said earlier that the software would be out next week (25th), although just SO, not SO+ yet. Although there seems to be a suggestion that the new SO will be done in the cloud, and only via the dealer portal. This is what I’m complaining about, above. Physical product seems to early October.

New 350 firmware appeared in beta yesterday, but there was no explanation of what it did in the release notes, so I haven’t applied it.

‘troll
64 is only for the Pins, so I'm not sure what Tom could be referring to. Perhaps the cloud based konfig (and with the forum down I can't remember what release that is).
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 16:16

Matteo wrote:https://www.linn.co.uk/speakers-and-amp ... exaktbox-i

The Linn website still has the image of Majik Exaktbox-I
And 'No' next to Katalyst. Guess the name change comes first, the box after. Konfused?
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Robert Lake » 2018-09-21 16:30

Here is another review:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/b ... sten-r741/


The following line catched my eye
The Selekt DSM sounded far superior to another brand's product there for demonstration.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by anthony » 2018-09-21 16:39

timster wrote:
DavidHB wrote:
mbabst wrote:Upgrade DS to Katalyst DS is still possible? Otherwise the value of every DS without Katalyst literally dropped to 0.
As I understood it, it remained possible after the DS to DSM upgrades were discontinued. What I don't know is whether it will remain possible (at least for a time) once there are no current DS models. And, like you, I see that as a concern. Has there been any information on that point from Linn in the wake of the recent announcements?

David
I guess the October price list will show what upgrades are still being offered. And your region has had their dealer conference, they should be able to tell you.
Dealers already have the price list and klimax ds to katalyst is still available.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by mcgillroy » 2018-09-21 16:58

Macallan wrote:Thanks for all the interesting information!!


IMO there is no real reason to move SO to the cloud (if that's whats going to happen), and I do not like the idea to depend on external internet connection & some remote server to update the SO profile.
When you read cloud think subscription. All cloud based models operate either on a freemium model with basic service free, extra features available via subscription. Or via a full subscription model.

The software world has moved to subscription based - Adobe, Microsoft, SAP - everybody is doing it. Even Roon (outside of their lifetime-product). Subscriptions provides nice reoccurring revenue.

Let's see what Linn cooks up on that front.
Last edited by mcgillroy on 2018-09-21 17:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-21 16:58

Moomintroll wrote: Yes. I think you’re misinterpreting “Pressure change over time” as being atmospheric pressure. I strongly suspect they’ve done a lot of work on how pressure waves decay over time in the room and reverberation time (if they aren’t both the same thing?) IIRC, this is what Philbo implied that Robert Cammidge (?) was to work on months ago, possibly early last year.

My understanding of moving SO to the cloud is that early DS models don’t have the processing power to do all the sums involved. I can’t see that this would be done “on the fly” rather just the initial processing with an algorithm being passed down to the DS.

I may be wrong, of course, nothing unusual there.

And, again, if it’s so much more effective than the current SO, it won’t need as much tweaking, so why leave it to a dealer to draw my room plan. I’m perfectly capable of doing that myself. I’m not convinced there are many dealers out there who are as well versed in SO as some of the long standing DS(M) owners, or “Tune dem” for that matter, while I’m on my soapbox.

‘troll
I'd agree with you on all of the above.
My dealer is under the impression that SO will not be limited to dealers but open to all and yes, SO+ will take longer to show up.
J.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Peter@57m » 2018-09-21 16:59

timster wrote:
Tendaberry wrote:
timster wrote:Does anyone know when the Selekt is coming to market? With Pins being a selling point, and with hardware buttons, Davaar 64 and Kazoo will need releasing first wouldn't they?
I talked to my dealer today and he said they begin shipping in about one week.
Thanks. So we should expect Pins any time soon.
Timster,

Pins are available now in Beta

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/B ... ease_Notes

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by mcgillroy » 2018-09-21 17:03

This bit in the Dagogo-article caught my eye:

"Currently there are 25 dealerships in the United States, but Linn will seek to expand this to 40. Linn promotes a strong customer-dealer relationship to fully exploit the technologies offered and to have each customer receive the optimum benefit of their purchase of Linn equipment. Linn is seeking to place a brand ambassador who will run events/demos of Linn systems."

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-linn ... ic-player/

So they are trying to grow and Selekt is the first salvo in this push.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 17:16

Peter@57m wrote: ...

Pins are available now in Beta

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/B ... ease_Notes
Yes, but they need to be official before the SDSM goes to market - and beta kazoo is not so easy to be a part of - especially Windows Store (the last time I was in the Windows Store beta program I never got any updates from then on!)
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by timster » 2018-09-21 17:18

anthony wrote: ...
Dealers already have the price list and klimax ds to katalyst is still available.
Come on then Cymbiosis... they still have the July one...
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by DavidHB » 2018-09-21 17:23

anthony wrote:Dealers already have the price list and klimax ds to katalyst is still available.
I'm very glad to know that. I guess that a stock of KDS boards will remain for a while.

David

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Macallan » 2018-09-21 17:31

Jumanji wrote:
Moomintroll wrote: Yes. I think you’re misinterpreting “Pressure change over time” as being atmospheric pressure. I strongly suspect they’ve done a lot of work on how pressure waves decay over time in the room and reverberation time (if they aren’t both the same thing?) IIRC, this is what Philbo implied that Robert Cammidge (?) was to work on months ago, possibly early last year.

My understanding of moving SO to the cloud is that early DS models don’t have the processing power to do all the sums involved. I can’t see that this would be done “on the fly” rather just the initial processing with an algorithm being passed down to the DS.

I may be wrong, of course, nothing unusual there.

And, again, if it’s so much more effective than the current SO, it won’t need as much tweaking, so why leave it to a dealer to draw my room plan. I’m perfectly capable of doing that myself. I’m not convinced there are many dealers out there who are as well versed in SO as some of the long standing DS(M) owners, or “Tune dem” for that matter, while I’m on my soapbox.

‘troll
I'd agree with you on all of the above.
My dealer is under the impression that SO will not be limited to dealers but open to all and yes, SO+ will take longer to show up.
J.
OK, the pressure change with time, a.k.a. 'sound' :-), might also be the dacay time, that makes sense

However, SO in the cloud I still don't get:

a) The calculation of filter coefficients from the room model (when you press 'optimize') happens in Konfig (I assume on the computer, not on the DS?). Any computer should be powerful enough to do that in a matter of seconds even with a more complex acoustic model (unless they are now applying ray tracing methods, but even then...)

b) The application of the resulting filters (application of FIR/IIR filter coefficients to PCM samples) must be done in the DS (DSP/DAC/FPGA) anyway due to real time requirements, and has always been done there.

Are you saying the filter coeffcients are calculated on the DS and reported back to Konfig? Please elaborate. :-)

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by Jumanji » 2018-09-21 17:45

The calculation is currently done in the DS, not the PC (at least that is my understanding)
So if it is done in the Cloud, obvioulsy the results need to be fed into the DS, probably via Konfig, but we will see.

I was told one could still use the existing filters. Not sure whether that means the cloud results are donwloaded to Konfig and live in coexistence with the cloud filters.

I would also hope there is an Import feature to upload all the measurements from Konfig to the cloud rather than have to input it all again. And only the new data, e.g. position of Windows and carpets etc, need to be entered.
Last edited by Jumanji on 2018-09-21 17:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by matthias » 2018-09-21 17:50

Music Lover wrote:A lot of raving about the modularity in this thread.
Only me that don't like that?
With modules, a lot of connections and drop of performance.
However, I understand it make sense in an "all-in-all" product adding flexibility.
IMO, with modules designed for fitting by dealer soldered connections are possible.

Matt
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Re: Linn announcements 9/2018, Selekt, etc.

Post by matthias » 2018-09-21 17:53

Robert Lake wrote:Here is another review:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/b ... sten-r741/

The following line catched my eye
The Selekt DSM sounded far superior to another brand's product there for demonstration.
They compared to a Naim Uniti which is much less expensive than the most basic Selekt.

Matt
LP12 / Exposure / JBL3677

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