SaltyDog's System

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SaltyDog's System

Post by SaltyDog » 2010-03-25 03:33

:D :D My now totally new system since I first came upon this forum is as follows: KK/1/D , KDS/D, ATC SMC 50 SL Active Towers in Rosewood all powered by 230VAC/60Hz and connected with balanced connectors. Linn Silvers from KDS to KK and Belkins from KK to ATCs.

That's all for now. King Crimson 24/96 is calling!

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Post by lejonklou » 2010-03-25 06:44

:shock:

I'd like to hear it!

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-03-25 13:59

When are you coming to Chicago area? I'd love to hear some of your gear too.

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Post by ThomasOK » 2010-03-25 16:31

Now there's a man after my own heart: Linn Klimax, ATC active speakers and King Crimson! The only question is: Where's the LP12? Oh yeah, and the photos?

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-03-25 18:19

Thomas have you heard the KDS (digital LP12)?

Seriously though, time constraints at the moment have the LP12 just sitting on the rack. I just removed 6 boxes from the system so now I have room to work it back into the system.

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Re: SaltyDog's System

Post by vicdiaz » 2010-03-27 02:18

SaltyDog wrote:
That's all for now. King Crimson 24/96 is calling!
:wink:
:mrgreen:
Vic
Ivor's "Tune-Method Seminar" Alumni

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-07 15:26

I have now dialed in the speaker placement. These speakers are phenomenal. The sound is so far ahead of the keltiks. I was a little concerned about the musicality at first. I always knew the keltiks were very position sensitive. Well so are the ATCs.

TuneDem is superb. It is like reading the score for an orchestra. The full performance readily apparent - yet you can concentrate on any individual aspect. Nothing is overly dominate. And nothing is missing. It all sounds so real. Piano has the dynamics of the piano in the next room. Acoustic instruments have more natural decay and the tone is spot on.

The urge to really crank them up has been a surprise in that I really enjoy them at lower levels than I thought I would. Even at 19 on the volume I can hear what is going on in the music. 65 is about the max I've spent any time listening. Most of the time is spent in the 40-50 range.

The detail is where the sense of the music is so clear. The background singers are so distinct. Each singer can be followed so easily. The group The Persuasions A Capella Dreams album is a great recording that demonstrates how distinct the human voice is. Following the tune takes no effort at all. Never find any question as to what is going on. Charlie asks on some thread on this or the Linn forum about listening using Tune Dem vs. using Tune Dem for just evaluation purposes. Well for me at least, whenever I'm actively listening (not using the computer) I find that it's all about the Tune. I am following the rhythm, melody, bass line throughout the entire performance. I am easily able to anticipate the next two measures in music I've never heard before. I'm amazed at how often I get the words right right when I know I don't know the words. The music seems to just need the right words. This has been my quest on the Hi-Fi journey.

I do wonder how a sub or two in the system would work. Not that it is definitely needed. ThomasOK's report on this in his system and the ATC dealer both suggest it would be well worthwhile.

In the book Get Better Sound by Jim Smith he states that one sub and acoustic music simply doesn't work right. He says you need two. He's the only one I've heard this from. Anyone ever worked with two subs with full range speakers? I have no experience with subs in a two channel system at all. The Home Theater setups have been low end and I never felt it was for me.

I am one Happy Camper


:D

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Post by Tony Tune-age » 2010-04-07 19:39

SaltyDog wrote:Following the tune takes no effort at all. Well for me at least, whenever I'm actively listening, I find that it's all about the Tune. I am following the rhythm, melody, bass line throughout the entire performance. I am easily able to anticipate the next two measures in music I've never heard before.
SaltyDog, was switching from the Linn speakers to the ATC speakers the only change in your system :?: In any case you sound really happy with the performance now :!: Happy listening... 8)
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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-07 20:10

Tony the most recent switch was from the keltiks/klimax aktive crossovers/4xklouts to the ATCs. I had gone to the KK/1/D and KDS/D earlier.

One cheap and very worthwhile change has been to 230V. Especially on the KK. This was surprising. I should point out that I have only heard my ATCs on 230V. The other ATCs I've heard were 115V. Can't really judge the difference since the room and front end were different.

The ATCs should be on anyone's list of things to get to hear.

As an aside, what part of the US are you in? I'm near Chicago.

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Post by Tony Tune-age » 2010-04-07 20:24

SaltyDog wrote:Tony the most recent switch was from the keltiks/klimax aktive crossovers/4xklouts to the ATCs. I had gone to the KK/1/D and KDS/D earlier.

One cheap and very worthwhile change has been to 230V. Especially on the KK. This was surprising. I should point out that I have only heard my ATCs on 230V. The other ATCs I've heard were 115V. Can't really judge the difference since the room and front end were different.

The ATCs should be on anyone's list of things to get to hear.

As an aside, what part of the US are you in? I'm near Chicago.
Well, your system does sound awsome :!: I'm currenty located in the central Ohio area... 8)
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Post by lejonklou » 2010-04-08 09:52

Thanks for the Happy Camper report, Salty!

Are these your speakers?

Image

The new ATC distributor in Sweden is running an advertising campaign. Never seen ATC in the press here before, but all of a sudden they seem to be hot. Probably due to the coverage on this forum. :mrgreen:

The 3-way passive SCM40 is pictured in the ads, has anybody heard it? Is it a vented or a closed box design? I think it looks rather nice:

Image

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Post by Lemmy » 2010-04-08 13:49

The SCM40 is a closed box.

I heard the SCM40 a couple of weeks ago, at the Swedish distributor, it sounded really good with ATC electronics. Next week I'm bringing my Katans over there to make a comparison with SCM40 on the ATC electronics.
I'm not much of a "tune dem-er", but I'll be sure to post my thoughts here afterwards.
Of course, the most interesting comparison would be Majik 140 vs SCM40 since they are quite close in price, but I don't think I'll be able to arrange such a demo.

I also listened to the smaller SCM11, which seems to be really good sound per pound! However, I'm looking for a larger speaker - therefore I'm more interested in the SCM40.

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-08 14:31

Yes the top picture in the rosewood is like what I have.

:D

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Post by Tony Tune-age » 2010-04-08 15:36

Well, both of those ATC speakers look very attractive... 8)
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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-08 16:08

The grills are black fabric with an unseen wood frame. I like the look with the grills better.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2010-04-08 18:06

I like the speakers in the top photo, not so sure about the bottom ones. Some folks think ATCs look quite ugly but I like their simplicity and purposeful appearance.

Glad you're enjoying them SaltyDog

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Post by Tony Tune-age » 2010-04-08 18:47

SaltyDog wrote:The grills are black fabric with an unseen wood frame. I like the look with the grills better.
SaltyDog, any pictures with the grills on... :?:
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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-09 05:16

There will be when I get up to speed on posting pictures. Very busy through mid next week though.

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Post by Tony Tune-age » 2010-04-09 11:58

SaltyDog wrote:There will be when I get up to speed on posting pictures.
I haven't been able to post any pictures yet, still trying to figure out the process... :wink:
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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-10 01:13

I'm sure I read a post by Charlie on here earlier on my new smart phone. Not being new myself the phone gets ahead of me still sometimes, but what would have happened to Charlies questions? :?

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Post by Charlie1 » 2010-04-10 07:42

Hi SaltyDog. Yes, I did post but then changed my mind. I was just curious about if you'd always listened to music the way you do and it was just automatic, or if it was something you'd learned over time. Must admit my mind often wanders if I put my brain in neutral then listen at night at low volume. On the rare occasions I can turn it up LOUD and I either have to listen and enjoy or turn it down/off. I just presumed everyone listens the same way (passively) but perhaps not.

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-10 15:14

Well maybe what I do is either listening or trying to listen. Different conditions including 11 yr old and 1yr grand affect the outcome quite often.

I have my system in the living area. The dedicated listening room thing kept me too separate from the family (which is more important than the music - even if I sometimes use the music to escape). I wait for those times when I'm alone for best listening. I also have the music playing while the rest of life happens. The end of the kitchen counter is at the far end of the open living area and there is a great spot to chop the veggies etc.

When listening I am in tune with the music - IF the system is setup properly. It is impossible to foot tap, finger snap, head bob, head sway (Ala Stevie Wonder), sing, hand clap, air guitar and tongue (as playing a reed instrument) with the music when the system isn't just right. WHEN it is right all of the above is happening in vary degrees of physically and in my head. Never physically and not in my head, sometimes just in my head. Never exactly repeatable.

I know this a learned thing. I learned playing in the orchestra in grade school though high school. I played bassoon and so I got to sit right in the middle of the orchestra. My parts were with different instruments because the range of the bassoon could go with the flutes or baritone. The bassoon can be hard to distinguish above the rest of the band, it is often a complimentary part. Do not pass up a chance to hear bassoon solos. It should have your tongue moving (kind of tapping the roof of the mouth where the teeth begin). The tongue can move with incredible speed and precision. If the system (mostly speaker position and room interaction) is off even the slightest I just can't do it and get very annoyed.

I also learned listening to the other instruments. The music that sounds like real instruments is more satisfying to me. The drum machines and synthesized stuff can be good but not for all night.

Since getting my first DS (started with ADS and have upgraded to KDS/D) I have come to like the electric guitar more than before. It makes so much more sense now. The ATCs have brought out the other fine details such as the background singers and the small parts where wind instruments play with the electric guitars. Things I never heard or confused me before. I can honestly say that every recording (purchased from a commercial source) I have is worth listening to. A few things I've been given are a little suspect. More the music than the recording. Very few recordings deserve the negative comments I've seen on the forums. I chalk it up to system setup when hear things like Plant/Krause's Raising Sand is poorly recorded. I've just got the Redbook recording.

I have not yet turned the ATCs up LOUD. The thing that really impresses me is how low they go without the feeling something is missing. Listening last night for a while at 13 on KK/1/D. The time spent at 40 and below is surprising to me.

Lights off and eyes closed it becomes automatic for me. I try to listen actively but when it doesn't happen passively is OK.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2010-04-10 23:08

Thanks for taking the time to respond Salty. That's a very insightful post and interesting to read how you go about listening in detail. Also interesting to learn how sensitive you are to the room and speaker positioning being just perfect - and being frustrated that you can't follow bassoon playing properly otherwise. I will keep playing with listening more actively - I am enjoying jazz and classical more which can only be a good thing. Rock/pop is more bread and butter to me, so probably not so much gain to be had, but I am inclined to use it more there too. After all, it's what works best for each of us and this is rewarding at the moment - I wonder if it will last.

I would very much like to hear ATCs and should definitely make the effort to hear a pair before upgrading my speakers - whenever that happens. I suppose I feel comfortable and confident about Linn kit so can buy second hand from people I trust, whereas ATCs might need to be a new purchase.

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Post by SaltyDog » 2010-04-11 03:35

I don't know if I have given the impression that I listen to any genre more than others. Anything but Heavy Metal, HipHop and Rap are usually good with me. Rock/Pop is the largest part of my collection.

Prior to the Keltiks I usually preferred the acoustic instruments (Jazz, Classical). Since getting to the upper end HiFi I understand more of the electric and appreciate the human voice much more than with lower end gear. How much there is to be gained in Rock/Pop is astounding. I'm still getting more out of it than I knew was missing.

I remember Ivor saying something like 80% of what is recorded onto an LP is heard with an LP12, many TT less than half. This was quite some time ago. I've been involved with Linn gear since 1980. The KDS probably beats the percentage but the old analog recordings are better than the stuff which was intended to be heard at only Redbook playback. Some of the older recordings from prior to the mid sixties when available digitally sound so good. The 1962 edition of Anything Goes comes to mind. It is good on vinyl too from what I hear.

Any recommendations of older recordings of fun music on digital are appreciated.

Charlie, I always enjoy your posts - it's so hard to put things like listening into words for me - you have a real knack for making me understand what you are talking about.

ATCs show up in Audiogon for sale here - I would think they would be available in the UK.

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Post by Charlie1 » 2010-04-11 20:21

SaltyDog wrote:I don't know if I have given the impression that I listen to any genre more than others. Anything but Heavy Metal, HipHop and Rap are usually good with me. Rock/Pop is the largest part of my collection.
No, not at all. I was just referring to my own listening habits.
SaltyDog wrote:Any recommendations of older recordings of fun music on digital are appreciated.
A friend recently enthused about both the musicality and sound quality of the Rudy van Gelder series of Rudy van Gelder remasters. Have a feeling they might be 24-bit but not sure. I think he's done at least 30 now, but check online if interested. I think he was the original sound engineer on many of the classic Blue Note LPs. I'm no expert - you probably know more than me (!) but thought I'd pass it on anyway.
SaltyDog wrote:Charlie, I always enjoy your posts - it's so hard to put things like listening into words for me - you have a real knack for making me understand what you are talking about.
Thanks Salty :D

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