Hermanns System

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Ron The Mon
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Post by Ron The Mon »

Hermann wrote: 2021-02-02 01:28 Well Ron, I hope you understand that I don't post overview photos of my system. I'm afraid the discussion about Mana will start again. The LP12 is on a 2 tier stainless steel Rack on a bunch of Mana.
Hermann,
By now, you should feel among friends as you have received nothing but praise, interest, and likes of your system and journey on this Forum, including photos. You are a very meticulous and interesting persona.

Most pro-Mana and anti-Mana folks have died from heart attacks related to their extreme passion. I'm glad you've survived. Please add more photos at your leisure.

If your listening preferences go the way of Lejonklou electronics, I'd love to hear your comparisons of Harmonihyllan racks vs. Mana vs. Fraim.

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Hi Ron, thank you for your kind words. It is indeed the case that this imaginary place has become a little home. And this is due to the clear focus of the forum on the one hand, as well as the communicative with each other on the other hand.

I remember very well the Manaforum, PFM, etc and the entusiasm that steered many users of its time. Also the epic argumentation fights pro/contra mana are still present. However, it also brought some visits and more so invitations to England, many of which I accepted. However, since the collapse of the Mana dictum in 2006, all contacts have been dissolved, which is actually a pity, since not only stubborn individuals participated in the discussion.

Regarding racks. So far, no rack or rack system has managed to even come close to a multilayer system of Mana. So of course I would be interested in a test of the Harmonihyllan system.

Anyway, today is listening with Sagatun Monos. Yesterday evening serves to set the mood, as the move from Fraim to Mana lets you hear significant improvements. So my trip to Naim Fraim was a correct failure.

Stay tuned...

For a small overview with the cell phone...
Racks.jpg
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

For you Ron. A comparison Fraim vs Mana. Since the old recording on Fraim still exists, just created a new one where everything is on Mana.

The LP12 is also on Mana and was not changed.

Old record of Malia Cadillac. LP12 and Tundra on Mana

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Wh4t9 ... sp=sharing


All on Mana
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r8wyc6 ... sp=sharing

System is running since yesterday and was off for a weeks. Just vorgotten to mention the 552 is playing not Sagatuns...
Last edited by Hermann on 2021-05-26 10:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Hi Hermann,

please can you give admittance for the second clip.

Thanks

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Thanks matthias, should working know...
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 10:33 Thanks matthias, should working know...
Perfect, thanks again.

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Oh dear, the first impression...

That will be tight, very tight. The Sagatuns now warmed up for 24 hours and playing for the first time. I don't know what Fredrik has built there, because it looks like a match as close as with the Entity 1.1 and the Naim Superline. The result is familiar.

Even though it still sounds a bit sharp, which is understandable, the Sagatun preamps play at a frighteningly high level. In this respect I am very happy to agree with Defender and Marco, obviously they are something special.

I won't go too much into detail, will come later. But the first impression is stunning. As if I hadn't even changed the preamp in the first listen.

Yet it follows the Entity with music playing a little further forward. The distance is missing, the leaning back, although is it really missing? Already with the Entity1.1 I had somewhat refrained from this way of listening with Naim. The Sagatuns bring the music forward again. Here, however, my habit could also play a role. Insofar as I got more involved. Will see, respectively hear.

And my wife didn't notice that the Sagatuns were playing....
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Defender »

Hi Hermann,
thats sounds promising - you know I always have a feeling run in plays a role - that means in your case:
Sagatun Monos need run in
Linn Silvers need run in
Lejonklou Power Cords need run in
Your advantage is they all run in at the same time - so I expect the lower frequencies will get more tight and the higher frequencies get more relaxed - that in the end should let you hear more tune and more emotion over time (the next two weeks).

Btw the upper output is said to be even a little bit more musical.

... and it seems that your LP12 is not using the Trampolin? I always wondered if the normal feets are more musical in certain circumstances - what is your opinion?
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Defender wrote: 2021-05-26 12:18 ... and it seems that your LP12 is not using the Trampolin?
AFAIK, no Mana user plays the LP12 with Trampolin.

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Hi defender, thanks for your comment.

Things want to be tuned in. The first harsh sound is almost gone after 2 hours. I also fear that it gets better every day. But also interesting the skating was not correct and had to be changed slightly. Didn't notice that on the 552....

The LP12 was my entry into the real musical world about 45 years ago. In that respect I have tested many racks, substructures, selfbuilds, etc. One of my findings is the location determines to some extent the sound.

The first thing I did with the LP12 was to remove the base plate, which I did with all the following including the current one. Since the feet of the LP12 are quite large and extend over the edge (inside), I had previously put small pieces of wood underneath as compensation. And that worked perfectly. Also at the time on the IKEA table, which was later replaced by a self-built metal rack. And that self-made table was replaced by a Mana reference table in the beginning of 2000.
The trampoline was here as a test about two years ago and immediately removed.

Sometime the hint about the 3M feet came up in a forum, tried it and left it until today. At the corners of the LP12 are small 3M adhesive feet, which make the sound of the LP12 clearer for me. Still the year before last I had built a rack system (stackable) from beech wood itself. But all efforts were in vain, on Manaracks plays the best for me.


Thanks matt, that's how it is
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 06:05
However, since the collapse of the Mana dictum in 2006, all contacts have been dissolved, which is actually a pity, since not only stubborn individuals participated in the discussion.

Regarding racks. So far, no rack or rack system has managed to even come close to a multilayer system of Mana. So of course I would be interested in a test of the Harmonihyllan system.

Racks.jpg
Hi Herman,
In connection "Mana" there is still contact with John Watson on Instagram in the case you need some info, spare parts and racks ...
Also for "source equipment" you can try NOKTable, Thomas is here on the forum ... Just as proposal ...
All the best and more pictures ... :-)
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Hi Vlado, thanks for your comment.

I know about his existence on Instagram, but there will be no contact because it is not necessary.

Of course I would do another test of the racks if the effort is not too high. But it would be more of fun, because there is no need to change.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by mrco99 »

Thanks Hermann for your early impressions, sounding very promising indeed.
Btw the 2 Linn silver pairs need no running-in as these are early non-slotted ones from my personal setup.

Hmm, yes a NOKTable...........didn't want to bring that up as I think for now you may already have enough on your plate.
But I do have one to try if you insist..... ;-)
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Thanks Marco

Well the first impression is really promising.

Hope you can still listen to music without the two pairs of Linn cables...

Regarding another table, I don't think I'll do the test. Although the tables certainly harmonise very well with the LP12.

There have been many changes in the last 2-3 years. The LP12 fully loaded, Tundra amplifier, Entity1.1 and now the Sagatun on test. Later the Monos. Lots to do and listen to.

@Vlado
I'm sorry to disappoint you with photos. There won't be many because of the not so good experiences from the past 20 years.
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 13:42 I'm sorry to disappoint you with photos. There won't be many because of the not so good experiences from the past 20 years.
I can certainly understand that Hermann, it took me awhile before I posted pictures of my system. I use a digital camera for pictures, and not a cellular phone. Hopefully nothing bad will happen.

All of your hard work is really paying off, and it will continue to pay off too!

Cheers
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 13:23 ... because there is no need to change.
This is the best ...
Enjoy your music ...
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Defender »

thank you for your feedback Hermann - the test with the 3M pads is easy to do when I take off the feet from the trampolin (and they are maybe close to what Fredrik uses on the Entity) so I might try it.
I am asking because I am working on a small coffeetable approach for the LP12 and dont like the LP12 having low heels because the weight is not evenly distributed and supported with the trampolin.

Did you had bad experiences with fotos meaning getting unwanted guests visiting you?
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

You're welcome.

I would remove the trampoline completely and glue very small feet on the corners. How the trampoline reacts without feet I do not know.

If you do your own construction, try dense materials for the surface. Screen printing plates in ~15mm thickness were popular at the time. Nevertheless, I think spikes are important, up and down. Also I would test simple glass in 10mm as a base.

Regarding photos, yes bad experience. Even today, in various forums photos of my stereo from 2000 are drawn into ridicule. Although I'm no longer interested, but I do not want to further feed.

just playing "Blind Face - Do what you like". What a kickdrum!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by V.A.MKD »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 13:42 @Vlado
I'm sorry to disappoint you with photos. There won't be many because of the not so good experiences from the past 20 years.
Not a problem at all Hermann, just make it as you wish and make it what is the best for you ...
Sorry if I was ...
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Defender »

you seem to focus on similar things - a kickdrum is named a kickdrum for a reason - there need to be a wavefront that hits you - that is giving a „live - be there feeling“ and with the Sagatun Monos and the Entity you realise how many kickdrums you have missed in other recordings ... sorry for turning into hifi terms
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 15:41 Regarding photos, yes bad experience. Even today, in various forums photos of my stereo from 2000 are drawn into ridicule. Although I'm no longer interested, but I do not want to further feed.
That's really unfortunate Hermann, it's hard to understand people sometimes especially adults. Congratulations on having a wonderful sounding system!

Jam on...
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Fraim, Mana, & Molvær

Post by Ron The Mon »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 08:24 For you Ron... Fraim vs Mana.

Old record of Malia Cadillac. LP12 and Tundra on Mana
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Wh4t9 ... sp=sharing


All on Mana
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r8wyc6 ... sp=sharing

(The 552, is playing not Sagatuns...)
Hermann,
So let me get this right; the comparison is Lejonklou Entity and Naim 552 preamp on Fraim racks, then Mana? I much prefer the all Mana; the difference is stunning. Thank you for that.


You recommended a record to me about a year ago which I purchased right away but just got around to playing. I have a habit of buying more vinyl and Blue-rays than I have time for. Anyway, I recently put on the Khmer album by Nils Petter Molvær and became convinced I already owned it. As I was listening, I was going through my collection looking for it. I then thought I was conflating it with Miles Davis' Tutu and George Duke's 101 North.

I finally looked at the fine print on the back of Khmer and saw it was produced by Bill Laswell. BINGO! Even though Laswell doesn't play bass on it, it sounds like him. I ended up putting on many other Laswell albums and reaslized I have a lot more of them to buy after looking up his catalog online.

You are right, Khmer definitely tests if the Isobarik bass drivers are working.

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Hermann,

it might sound a little bit strange but just for fun I would listen to a Giella Pi as well.
Giella Pi is more musical than Giella and Giella is more musical than Sagatun Stereo.
So in this context it might be fun to evaluate the musicality of Giella Pi (if only one input is ok for you).

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Re: Hermanns System

Post by ThomasOK »

Hermann wrote: 2021-05-26 08:24 For you Ron. A comparison Fraim vs Mana. Since the old recording on Fraim still exists, just created a new one where everything is on Mana.

The LP12 is also on Mana and was not changed.

Old record of Malia Cadillac. LP12 and Tundra on Mana

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Wh4t9 ... sp=sharing


All on Mana
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1r8wyc6 ... sp=sharing

System is running since yesterday and was off for a weeks. Just vorgotten to mention the 552 is playing not Sagatuns...
Yep, I definitely prefer the all Mana to the partial Fraim recording. There is more going on there and it is easier to follow. I look forward to hearing it with the broken-in Sagatun Monos!
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Re: Hermanns System

Post by ThomasOK »

matthias wrote: 2021-05-26 17:39 Hermann,

it might sound a little bit strange but just for fun I would listen to a Giella Pi as well.
Giella Pi is more musical than Giella and Giella is more musical than Sagatun Stereo.
So in this context it might be fun to evaluate the musicality of Giella Pi (if only one input is ok for you).

Matt
Giella ∏ is really good, but it is not Sagatun Monos.
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