Hermanns System

Share your journey!

Moderator: Staff

Defender
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 1266
Joined: 2018-02-14 22:35

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Defender »

if you dont hear it than it most likely is not there. I was always afraid of it and that actually held me back from installing solar panels on a perfectly south oriented roof.
Now I might think if it - maybe - maybe not - just to make Mr. Habeck unhappy.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Last edited by Hermann on 2023-06-23 16:59, edited 4 times in total.
Trust your ears
User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 974
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tendaberry »

I don't have a Google account...
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Thanks for the hint. Should fit now.
Trust your ears
tokenbrit
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2012-03-22 19:47
Location: New England

Re: Hermanns System

Post by tokenbrit »

Prefer 1 - there's more time for musicianship and interplay to develop...

2 - more drive, but feel a bit rushed, and less interesting musically.
Spannko
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2281
Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
Location: North East of The Black Country, UK

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Spannko »

2 for me
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Hermanns System

Post by beck »

I prefer E1, F1 and G1.
Playing cd’s…………
Whatsmynaim
Active member
Active member
Posts: 197
Joined: 2019-10-29 23:55

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Whatsmynaim »

1 flows better which makes it easier to hear what's going on in the music. As mentioned 2 feel a bit rushed.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4345
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by ThomasOK »

I prefer 1 on all three tracks. I don't hear it so much as rushed but there does seem to be something not right with the timing on the 2 tracks. I just found the 2s gave me a sense of unease with the music whereas the 1 tracks were all quite enjoyable. Also on the F and G pieces the music sounded somehow a little more distant or less present on the 2 tracks.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6504
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

I would like something in between 1 and 2. On Kari, I prefer 1 but on Take Five, 2 has something that 1 lacks and I find 2 easier to dig into.
User avatar
V.A.MKD
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 862
Joined: 2019-10-09 15:33
Location: Skopje / Europe
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by V.A.MKD »

Kari and Mesta are not familiar to me so ...
I will say only for Take Five, for me G2.
Music First ...
Vlado
User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 974
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tendaberry »

I only listened to "Take Five" and preferred G2, the drummer sounded a bit disjointed on G1.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

Thank you for your review. I had the opportunity to test my briks against other speakers.

When I heard the new speakers for the first time, I was overwhelmed for two days that something like this is even possible. The new ones showed me what transparency, musicality and almost all the beautiful things I could wish for offer. At first the new ones stood on the manufacturer's stands and produced an unbelievable bass boom. Of course, the setup wasn't optimal, but we liked them so much at first that we removed the Briks from the mana stack (a lot of effort) and placed the new ones on top. But when they were on mana, the mana effect caught up with me on the 2nd day, the speakers didn't sound at all. The next day they not only sounded fantastic, but the entire bass boom was gone. At that point I felt like I could choose between paradise and heaven, something of either would make the perfect speaker for me. But after a while it became apparent that the insane transparency was too much for my understanding, the music no longer drew me in. Technically flawless, probably perfect, it lacked the urge to move, to go with the music although it drew attention.

In fact, I had to build and listen to the briks again before I could make a decision. It is the imaginary space of isobarics or the ability to let notes jump into the room, but above all the special "shine" in the music that no other speaker has been able to show so far, unfortunately not even the Grahams.

I don't want to go into too much detail, but the Graham 5/5 are excellent musical speakers that certainly have their fans. It is not suitable for our listening habits.

x1 Isobarik
x2 Graham LS 5/5

Many thanks to Marco from Hexagon Audio for the opportunity to be able to listen to such a loudspeaker in our own house for a few days.
Trust your ears
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6504
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

Wow, those were the spectacularly looking LS 5/5!

I have only heard them once at a show and felt they were something special.

I am a bit surprised these clips were a speaker comparison, I would not have guessed that given how similar the clips were in sound yet so different in tempo.
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4345
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by ThomasOK »

That's very interesting! I also certainly didn't think it was a speaker comparison as they sounded more similar than I would expect. Before reading your explanation but after seeing some other comments I went back and listened to Take Five again, a piece I am very familiar with. I still preferred 1 and didn't quite get the tempo thing as track 1 seemed better to me pretty much across the board. I left 1 playing while I read your post about what we were listening to. It was then I heard the drum solo part. I confess I didn't listen to the whole track previously (I often don't) and just heard about the first minute. So I went back and listened to the second half of each clip of Take Five. No change. The drums to me sound more natural and in time on clip 1 than they do on clip 2. I find it difficult to play air drums to clip 2 but easy on clip 1. When you get about 2 and a half minutes in and you get the snare roll with a slight pause and the bass drum hit, clip 1 just nails it, to me 2 doesn't. Congratulations Isobariks! As I can testify a truly top notch speaker is hard to surpass regardless of the age of the design.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
matthias
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2089
Joined: 2007-12-25 16:47
Location: Germany

Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Late to the party but anyway X1 for me.
Matt

MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

lejonklou wrote: 2023-06-25 21:16 [...]
I would like something in between 1 and 2. On Kari, I prefer 1 but on Take Five, 2 has something that 1 lacks and I find 2 easier to dig into.
That sums it up. A hybrid of both worlds would be my ideal speaker. I also spoke to Marco from Hexagon Audio about this. The depth and height of the room with the precision of the Grahams, that would indeed be it!

Thanks Tom for your deeper insight. Unfortunately, I couldn't run the speakers directly against each other. The recordings, however, confirm your impression.

In fairness, I should write a little more about the Graham 5/5.

First of all, the Grahams weren't optimally set up.

Nevertheless, the Graham's midrange is the best and most natural I've ever heard. At times I thought the artists were physically present because of the voices. Malia's voice certainly melts ice through these speakers so approachable and direct her recording. Here the briks simply have to admit defeat. They do not create this realistic representation.

The timing was addressed, if not a directly comprehensible term for me, but I still didn't find the Grahams to be "faster" or "slower", but rather a little more dynamic than the briks.

When it came to tonal balance, the Grahams didn't cut a good figure at first either. I was amazed at the enormous bass pressure in a really large and high living room. At times we had to listen more quietly because the pressure was unbearable. Only the move to the mana stands brought relief. That was an amazing effect. And so a second pair of loudspeakers (after the Akubarik) proves that the briks are not made for this room and further acoustic measures have to be set up.

Furthermore, the enormous transparency, astonishingly clear and distinct, as I do not even know it from electrostatics. Here she is clearly ahead. And this is where my decision comes in. It was no longer so easy for me to follow musical lines, since the represented presence of simultaneous notes was too present. Astonishing!

The musicality is similar, although I give Graham a slight edge. In fact, this is a feeling that can hardly be described with examples. The Grahams are musical. Here, too, it must be determined to what extent Fredrik's developments are sufficient. The additional information was striking, regardless of whether Källa was playing or the LP12. She left no doubt about the quality of a good mix. es. In this regard, I certainly accept small restrictions on other advantages.

In one area, however, both speakers are equal. The width of the soundstage. The Graham is really well positioned here. It doesn't need a sweet spot either. It not only manages to reproduce in the three dimensions between the speakers, but also creates the impression of playing outside of this area, like the briks.

On the similarity of the two speaker systems. It is actually the case that, when distracted, it was not immediately clear which of the two was playing. At times I thought it was the briks but the Grahams played.

The Grahams were at a disadvantage when it came to spatial representation in terms of depth and height. The presentation didn't just seem slightly compressed and not very open to me. She didn't come close to reaching the depth that the briks create, nor the height. Instruments therefore did not have the space to "breathe" but played quite close together, much closer than with the briks. Although they could be separated cleanly and clearly, humans are creatures of habit and they don't always want to be discarded. A change in this area would have been very, very difficult.

Without question, improvements can be made with the list, but obviously a week is not enough to properly understand loudspeakers in this category.

In the beginning the Grahams were on manufacturer stands, which in my opinion are completely unsuitable. The distance to the back wall about 60cm and 1.81m distance between them (according to the circumstances the optimized point), about half of the sound stage I was used to from the briks was missing, in height as well as in depth. Even the recommended angling towards the listening position did not show the desired effect. It doesn't represent the depth of the soundstage to the same extent as the briks, understandably. The Grahams were placing 16cm from the back wall when the recording was taken, which may have been too close.

The volume, which had to be turned up significantly further with the Grahams, although according to the data sheet they are 2db more sensitive (86db briks to 88db LS 5/5) is a point. I was forced to unban the Sagatun monos. In fact, on some tracks, the amps clipped for the first time in this setup. And since this not only happened occasionally with quiet recordings (which are known), but with almost half of the music, that was a criterion for me. Certainly this can also be attributed to psychoacoustic backgrounds. When the briks played again, however, it immediately became clear that they play louder, much louder, at the same volume setting.

Compared to the four tweeters of the briks, the Grahams don't sound as bright and this benefits the reproduction. The Grahams fire forward, the briks up as well. Hardly any other speaker will achieve the result of this.

All in all, an extremely interesting experience, as such exercises constantly refine your hearing. The Graham 5/5 would certainly be my speakers if the briks couldn't do it anymore. This is not only clear to me. While listening habits are always changing and adapting, they would be the candidates due to some really fantastic features.
Trust your ears
User avatar
Tendaberry
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 974
Joined: 2010-08-30 16:08
Location: Hamburg

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Tendaberry »

@Hermann: Maybe the new Graham 5/5f floorstanders are the right speakers for you? I was very impressed by them at the Norddeutsche HiFi-Tage this year.
Were the 5/5 you borrowed brand new?
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

The 5/5f is out of my reach, so it tends not to be considered.

According to Marco, the Graham 5/5 are one year old. I'm assuming a demo pair, which has certainly been played. Changes in sound, which also aim at warm-up time, were not audible.

I would like to reiterate that the Graham LS 5/5 are fantastic speakers that I would change my listening habits for under different circumstances.
Trust your ears
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4830
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Charlie1 »

I preferred the Briks too. Made the Grahams sound wrong somehow.
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

After a long time of consideration and a few requests for pictures, I'm now posting it. Even if it can lead to lively discussions in other forums, the result speaks for itself and for me after decades of searching.
I would also like to show some of the Graham 5/5, which showed what speaker development can achieve.

...
Last edited by Hermann on 2023-09-22 04:29, edited 3 times in total.
Trust your ears
User avatar
Hermann
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 604
Joined: 2018-05-13 06:52
Location: Ruhrgebiet

Re: Hermanns System

Post by Hermann »

...
Last edited by Hermann on 2023-09-22 04:30, edited 1 time in total.
Trust your ears
beck
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2752
Joined: 2012-10-22 22:25

Re: Hermanns System

Post by beck »

Great pictures! :-)
Playing cd’s…………
matthias
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 2089
Joined: 2007-12-25 16:47
Location: Germany

Re: Hermanns System

Post by matthias »

Hermann wrote: 2023-08-31 11:12 After a long time of consideration and a few requests for pictures, I'm now posting it.
Hermann,
I like this old-school Mana set-up, it must sound terrific!
Matt

MBP / Exposure pre + power (both modified) / JBL3677
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6504
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Hermanns System

Post by lejonklou »

Fascinating pictures, Hermann!

Can’t say that I understand how eight levels of Mana can bring an improvement when the height above floor becomes increasingly less optimal. Sadly I have never had the pleasure of listening to a system on Mana. Maybe one day!
Post Reply