Hermanns System
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Re: Hermanns System
Clip 1 ist the Entity 1.1
A little background...
First, I noticed that it seems a bit louder with the upgrade. However, memory can be deceiving there. I don't really want to go into details, even though I think the midrange is clearer. The overall picture of the Entity is what made me decide. I can certainly live with both very well. But the Entity after upgrade caused me to feel no need to switch to the SL. As soon as the SL played again, I was missing something. Maybe this is a synergy between amp and phono, I don't know.
To what extent this is relevant in general, I don't know to say either. Anyway, my wife is now able to hear the slightest possible change in tracking force on the EKOS/SE. She also heard the sonic changes of another cable between Entity 1.1 and 552. Especially since there were still changes after hours. Amazing!
Swapped the cable between Entity 1.1 and pre to a very old Mark Levinson silver cable which fits much better.
Another point is the LP12. I was never really satisfied with the sound since my last setup. And since Tom shared his experience again in a post, I changed the front and left springs to the old ones that were installed before the Karousel and now it suddenly bounces as desired. Previously I had swapped them for each other and left the best one under the EKOS. I was only surprised that the new springs are so bad to adjust. With the old ones this was done within a few minutes.
Back to the Entity 1.1, which gives me musical enjoyment like I haven't had in too long. The Entity 1.1 is at least on the same level as the Superline. Although this has a Hi-Line to the 552 in the meantime. No use, the Entity also manages the upgrade.
At the moment everything is a big provisional solution. The Manas are set in front of the Fraims. I want to change that in the coming weeks.
According to Marco, a new Entity 1.1 will be delivered next week. Fredrik and Marco deserve my thanks for that.
Regarding take 1 or 2, I knew from the beginning that this will be tight, because I had listened to all takes over headphones. Something else plays the decisive role. I tried to elementize the room as well as possible by placing the recorder a little closer to the speakers and limiting the recording angle to 90°. Sounded better over the DT770. In this respect, no one is wrong, even if it is clearer in real terms. The overall impression in the room is more complete with the Entity 1.1, from one cast, as they say.
After all the testing, one important statement remains for me. The Tundra has buried a very large part of my musical frustration. Finally I hear music again and only that counts to me. Even if a little is still missing, I am confident after the rebuild the system plays properly. With the Entitiy I am again closer, that also counts. I think 11 new records during the last three weeks speak a clear language.
What's next? The K400 is delayed because of DHL, are immediately upgraded with Deltrons and of course get the right length.
A little background...
First, I noticed that it seems a bit louder with the upgrade. However, memory can be deceiving there. I don't really want to go into details, even though I think the midrange is clearer. The overall picture of the Entity is what made me decide. I can certainly live with both very well. But the Entity after upgrade caused me to feel no need to switch to the SL. As soon as the SL played again, I was missing something. Maybe this is a synergy between amp and phono, I don't know.
To what extent this is relevant in general, I don't know to say either. Anyway, my wife is now able to hear the slightest possible change in tracking force on the EKOS/SE. She also heard the sonic changes of another cable between Entity 1.1 and 552. Especially since there were still changes after hours. Amazing!
Swapped the cable between Entity 1.1 and pre to a very old Mark Levinson silver cable which fits much better.
Another point is the LP12. I was never really satisfied with the sound since my last setup. And since Tom shared his experience again in a post, I changed the front and left springs to the old ones that were installed before the Karousel and now it suddenly bounces as desired. Previously I had swapped them for each other and left the best one under the EKOS. I was only surprised that the new springs are so bad to adjust. With the old ones this was done within a few minutes.
Back to the Entity 1.1, which gives me musical enjoyment like I haven't had in too long. The Entity 1.1 is at least on the same level as the Superline. Although this has a Hi-Line to the 552 in the meantime. No use, the Entity also manages the upgrade.
At the moment everything is a big provisional solution. The Manas are set in front of the Fraims. I want to change that in the coming weeks.
According to Marco, a new Entity 1.1 will be delivered next week. Fredrik and Marco deserve my thanks for that.
Regarding take 1 or 2, I knew from the beginning that this will be tight, because I had listened to all takes over headphones. Something else plays the decisive role. I tried to elementize the room as well as possible by placing the recorder a little closer to the speakers and limiting the recording angle to 90°. Sounded better over the DT770. In this respect, no one is wrong, even if it is clearer in real terms. The overall impression in the room is more complete with the Entity 1.1, from one cast, as they say.
After all the testing, one important statement remains for me. The Tundra has buried a very large part of my musical frustration. Finally I hear music again and only that counts to me. Even if a little is still missing, I am confident after the rebuild the system plays properly. With the Entitiy I am again closer, that also counts. I think 11 new records during the last three weeks speak a clear language.
What's next? The K400 is delayed because of DHL, are immediately upgraded with Deltrons and of course get the right length.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
I am happy for you and with everyone else who gets closer to what he wants to achieve or fill the gap of what was missing before.
Its a great achievement from Fredrik and shows that his approach works out independent from big Names/Naims and the prices they are asking for their products.
Your case actually sold me into something which I thought would be the last thing I would do ... if only cases become available again (I know thats a cryptic message but you probably know what it is).
Even though I seem to be attracted by the wrong forces still once in a while - I know when I am following the opinions all the others made in your case it ends up with happiness with the delivery of music in the long run so its great to have those opinions as support - its a wonderful place here.
Its a great achievement from Fredrik and shows that his approach works out independent from big Names/Naims and the prices they are asking for their products.
Your case actually sold me into something which I thought would be the last thing I would do ... if only cases become available again (I know thats a cryptic message but you probably know what it is).
Even though I seem to be attracted by the wrong forces still once in a while - I know when I am following the opinions all the others made in your case it ends up with happiness with the delivery of music in the long run so its great to have those opinions as support - its a wonderful place here.
Re: Hermanns System
Thank you very much for your kind words defender. I think I can decipher your cryptic message. Sometimes it's a long and painful way to follow the ideal, sometimes a very easy one.
And this thought
It's not always easy to follow a direction that others take. After all, everyone listens to his favorite music even if many things seem to be in need of improvement. That's really good. Did not Einstein postulate - The head is round, so that thoughts can change direction?
Enjoy your music. Today cassical music is on. I think at the end of this year I may let retipp the Kandid.
And this thought
on its own is worth considering in all decisions. Still, each to his own.
It's not always easy to follow a direction that others take. After all, everyone listens to his favorite music even if many things seem to be in need of improvement. That's really good. Did not Einstein postulate - The head is round, so that thoughts can change direction?
Enjoy your music. Today cassical music is on. I think at the end of this year I may let retipp the Kandid.
Trust your ears
- Tony Tune-age
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Re: Hermanns System
Very nice write-up Hermann, and I know the Entity upgrade is certainly worth the effort...for sure! Enjoy your system...
Cheers!
Cheers!
Tony Tune-age
Re: Hermanns System
Glad you read you're enjoying the Entity so much and thanks for the detailed write up.
Sorry, I lost track a bit - what Lejonklou items are you looking to get now?
Sorry, I lost track a bit - what Lejonklou items are you looking to get now?
Re: Hermanns System
Thank you very much for the nice comments.
One of the next steps will be to prepare the system so that 552 and Sagatun Mono get equal conditions.
But today the K400 arrived. I want to test that first, but it has to be splitted. Therefore I leave it for the time being with the supplied 5.2m. It will be shortened to 4,96m later and equipped with new deltrons. Since my NAC A5 has exactly 5m length (tested) I want to double the proposed 2,48m.
Should the Sagatun monos actually win the challenge, again a rebuild of racks are possible. That requires however 5m long cables between pre and amp. Would put those between the briks and the length 2.48m would be possible.
Additionally the Entity 1.1 is on the way. I also want to play that before rebuilding racks.
One of the next steps will be to prepare the system so that 552 and Sagatun Mono get equal conditions.
But today the K400 arrived. I want to test that first, but it has to be splitted. Therefore I leave it for the time being with the supplied 5.2m. It will be shortened to 4,96m later and equipped with new deltrons. Since my NAC A5 has exactly 5m length (tested) I want to double the proposed 2,48m.
Should the Sagatun monos actually win the challenge, again a rebuild of racks are possible. That requires however 5m long cables between pre and amp. Would put those between the briks and the length 2.48m would be possible.
Additionally the Entity 1.1 is on the way. I also want to play that before rebuilding racks.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
I think I'd rather have 4.96m and the system off to one side.
Re: Hermanns System
Between the briks is also not my favorite
After a few hours of splitted K400, I am still a little disappointed. It still sounds peaky, harsh, unbalanced. I hope this changes.
However, a Weller soldering station is on the way to replace my ancient Weller unit. That has no temperature control. The new one can go up to 400° C. According to Fredrik's recommendation, the temp should be 353° C with WSD80 and WSP80 pen. Will see...
After a few hours of splitted K400, I am still a little disappointed. It still sounds peaky, harsh, unbalanced. I hope this changes.
However, a Weller soldering station is on the way to replace my ancient Weller unit. That has no temperature control. The new one can go up to 400° C. According to Fredrik's recommendation, the temp should be 353° C with WSD80 and WSP80 pen. Will see...
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
The optimal temperature of 353° C is valid for one of my stations when using tip D (4.6 mm wide) and my leaded solder wire. Different stations and pens can vary by about +/-5° C. Also if using a long thin tip (for instance K, which is unsuitable for loudspeaker cables), the optimal setting is about 14° C higher. If using a different solder wire than mine, the optimal temperature can change a lot.
I would also strongly recommend using Linn Knekt, preferably the old, matte type if they can be found, at least in the amplifier end. Isobariks probably have holes that are too tight and therefore crush the Knekt, in which case Deltron 550 is the second best choice. Again, the old type that is tin plated is preferable but difficult to find, while the nickel plated ones are readily available.
Re: Hermanns System
its interesting coming back to auditioning the clips I am now with all of you and prefer clip 1 - clip 2 sounds more thin and without meat on the bones. Probably that was giving me the impression I hear more on clip 2. It also sounds less clear in the mids in clip 2
- Tony Tune-age
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- Location: United States
Re: Hermanns System
Through my computer, the finer differences of musical recordings aren't always noticeable. Just about all music sounds the same...Defender wrote: ↑2021-03-02 19:50 its interesting coming back to auditioning the clips I am now with all of you and prefer clip 1 - clip 2 sounds more thin and without meat on the bones. Probably that was giving me the impression I hear more on clip 2. It also sounds less clear in the mids in clip 2
Cheers
Tony Tune-age
Re: Hermanns System
Congratulation on getting the Entity 1.1 Hermann!lejonklou wrote: ↑2021-02-27 21:43
A few weeks ago, when Hermann posted clips of Naim Superline/Supercap/Hi-Line/Powerline (not even sure what all those products are) versus Entity 1.0, I thought Naim was better. I had a list of new ideas to try on Entity and the fact that I preferred the Naim clips made me decide to prioritize those tests, despite being deep into the design of a (different) circuit board. One thing on the list worked (=resulted in a musical improvement) and that change became Entity 1.1. At first I thought the difference was small, but when I went back to 1.0 I couldn't stand it anymore, it just felt confused in comparison. So the improvement was bigger than I expected.
I would like to congratulate you too Fredrik. The Entity 1.1 is hitting me good :-) (listening to Hermann’s clips).
Not that my opinion is anything to go by but if I were in the marked for a new MC phono preamp it would be at the top of my list to try out.
Playing cd’s…………
Re: Hermanns System
Thanks beck. Well its a wonderfull little box.
A little hello to the round. Just want to report back that I still exist. :-) Sometimes life sets the prorities.
In the coming days I will manage to rebuild my layout to test the Sagatun against my 552.
So if interested still a little standby please.
A little hello to the round. Just want to report back that I still exist. :-) Sometimes life sets the prorities.
In the coming days I will manage to rebuild my layout to test the Sagatun against my 552.
So if interested still a little standby please.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
Hi Hermann, good to have you back - hope all is fine with you. You have a PM from me.
Re: Hermanns System
Well thanks defender, good to be back...
Sagatun Mono were delivered yesterday. Many thanks to Marco for his excellent service. I also thanked him for supplying me with chinch cables, as I had forgotten to tell him that I was only at home in the Naim (cable) world.
The system is now disassembled and waiting for a new setup on Mana racks and stages. But they have to be set up first. I think to post first impression tomorrow or the day after.
Sagatun Mono were delivered yesterday. Many thanks to Marco for his excellent service. I also thanked him for supplying me with chinch cables, as I had forgotten to tell him that I was only at home in the Naim (cable) world.
The system is now disassembled and waiting for a new setup on Mana racks and stages. But they have to be set up first. I think to post first impression tomorrow or the day after.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
I am looking forward to your impression about the Sagatun Monos even though I think I already know what is going to happen.
Re: Hermanns System
You are very sure of that, as you also wrote to me. After all, you own the Sagatun monos for some time and should know about what it.
Marco recommends 1 - 2 weeks warm-up for the Sagatuns.
From my experience this time is too short for the 552. Four to six weeks until the 552 plays almost at its best level. But as I already wrote, a lot happens in the bass range during the following 4~6 months until it reaches its maximum.
Some additional information, the 552 has received the /DR upgrade in 2019 and the power supply has been recapped. Trimmed by Naim for the best musical reproduction, so to speak. The cable from 552 to Tundra Stereo is Mana silver, which I used also between Entiy 2, but it didnt work and was replaced by an old Mark Levinsion silver cable.
If it really gets tight right at the beginning, I'll have to talk to Marco.
Marco recommends 1 - 2 weeks warm-up for the Sagatuns.
From my experience this time is too short for the 552. Four to six weeks until the 552 plays almost at its best level. But as I already wrote, a lot happens in the bass range during the following 4~6 months until it reaches its maximum.
Some additional information, the 552 has received the /DR upgrade in 2019 and the power supply has been recapped. Trimmed by Naim for the best musical reproduction, so to speak. The cable from 552 to Tundra Stereo is Mana silver, which I used also between Entiy 2, but it didnt work and was replaced by an old Mark Levinsion silver cable.
If it really gets tight right at the beginning, I'll have to talk to Marco.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
if you mean run in time when you say warm up I have no information with Sagatun as mine have been demo units.
if you mean warm up after disconnecting them from the power I am pretty sure the Sagatun Monos dont need more than 24hours to perform perfectly.
I am not really a friend of interconnects with silver cores or even silver coating. Linn Silver are actually copper core so maybe thats the same for your Mark Levinsion cables but if they use silver as conductor I would recommend to try Linn Silver instead.
if you mean warm up after disconnecting them from the power I am pretty sure the Sagatun Monos dont need more than 24hours to perform perfectly.
I am not really a friend of interconnects with silver cores or even silver coating. Linn Silver are actually copper core so maybe thats the same for your Mark Levinsion cables but if they use silver as conductor I would recommend to try Linn Silver instead.
Re: Hermanns System
The Sagatuns seem to be new and therefore need a longer break-in time.
Currently I am relying on self-soldered cables with Naim DIN connectors that have RCA at the other end. At the time much experimented with cables and the Mana Silver were already the best. On the other hand I still have a silver cable from Teddy Pardo for Naim that I could re-solder.
Maybe the problem will be solved soon, should the Sagatuns stay.
Currently I am relying on self-soldered cables with Naim DIN connectors that have RCA at the other end. At the time much experimented with cables and the Mana Silver were already the best. On the other hand I still have a silver cable from Teddy Pardo for Naim that I could re-solder.
Maybe the problem will be solved soon, should the Sagatuns stay.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
Hi Hermann,
Glad to hear you've taken receival of the Sagatuns.
If all went well the Linn silver ICs have arrived today too.
Lejonklou gear certainly does not need 4-6 weeks to warm up and play at its best.
Something between 4-24 hours you will normally hear them unfolding their musical capabilities for run-in devices.
Since this pair is brand new I'd say allow it 1-2 weeks for burning in before you make any judgements - though you may already start enjoying them well before this time.
Looking forward to your impressions und Schönes Pfingsten!
Marco
Glad to hear you've taken receival of the Sagatuns.
If all went well the Linn silver ICs have arrived today too.
Lejonklou gear certainly does not need 4-6 weeks to warm up and play at its best.
Something between 4-24 hours you will normally hear them unfolding their musical capabilities for run-in devices.
Since this pair is brand new I'd say allow it 1-2 weeks for burning in before you make any judgements - though you may already start enjoying them well before this time.
Looking forward to your impressions und Schönes Pfingsten!
Marco
Distributor of Lejonklou | Aqua | Graham Audio | Klangedang | NOKTable | Ophidian | The Wand
Re: Hermanns System
yes we should differentiate between warm up after turning the instruments of ... for example because of a thunder storm - here I think the Sagatuns sound nice after 1-2hours but even a little better after 24hours
with respect to run in when new I think devices need 200hours and sometimes even 400hours playtime
When I say playtime I mean playtime and not just switched on. But if you have a digital streamer you can set up a long playlist with a variety of music and let it run 24/7 so after 2weeks you have 336hours on them.
Same goes for the Linn Silver but since you need to burn in both the Sagatuns and the Linn Silver you can hit two birds with one stone doing it alltogether.
Enjoy and keep us updated.
To make comparison fair - if switching cables I would give another 24hours to let the connection settle down - 24h you would need anyway if you switched on of the devices of.
with respect to run in when new I think devices need 200hours and sometimes even 400hours playtime
When I say playtime I mean playtime and not just switched on. But if you have a digital streamer you can set up a long playlist with a variety of music and let it run 24/7 so after 2weeks you have 336hours on them.
Same goes for the Linn Silver but since you need to burn in both the Sagatuns and the Linn Silver you can hit two birds with one stone doing it alltogether.
Enjoy and keep us updated.
To make comparison fair - if switching cables I would give another 24hours to let the connection settle down - 24h you would need anyway if you switched on of the devices of.
Re: Hermanns System
Thanks Marco for your excellent support. Thanks also to you Defender, the recommendations will of course be taken into account. So it will take some time for the final decision.
With a little delay, the system is now no longer on Naim Fraim, but back on Mana. Both preamplifiers are now next to each other. It was a challenge to set up the racks in such a way that the same conditions are created for both.
Currently the 552 is playing with NDS and I am more than satisfied, although everything has just been switched on.
However, I have a small problem with the connection of the TOS Link cable. I don't know if that is supposed to snap in or not, because it falls out again when lightly touched. This needs to be solved first. Maybe someone has a hint.
With a little delay, the system is now no longer on Naim Fraim, but back on Mana. Both preamplifiers are now next to each other. It was a challenge to set up the racks in such a way that the same conditions are created for both.
Currently the 552 is playing with NDS and I am more than satisfied, although everything has just been switched on.
However, I have a small problem with the connection of the TOS Link cable. I don't know if that is supposed to snap in or not, because it falls out again when lightly touched. This needs to be solved first. Maybe someone has a hint.
Trust your ears
Re: Hermanns System
Hi Hermann,
yes the toslink cable need to snap in and should stay in that way. There are small covers on the cable! to safe the optical fiber from getting dust on it which I assume you have taken off ... otherwise you yould not be able to connect it ... but just saying.
Sometimes the optical cable has a certain loop/form/bending to it depending how it was transported in the packaging (like every other cable) but I dont really advice bending it very much per hand.
Maybe you try it the other way around and it works better with keeping it snapped in (direction doesnt matter).
It really needs to snap in - it is like a light plastiky snap and „feels“ like a micro switch „click“ (for less of better words)
yes the toslink cable need to snap in and should stay in that way. There are small covers on the cable! to safe the optical fiber from getting dust on it which I assume you have taken off ... otherwise you yould not be able to connect it ... but just saying.
Sometimes the optical cable has a certain loop/form/bending to it depending how it was transported in the packaging (like every other cable) but I dont really advice bending it very much per hand.
Maybe you try it the other way around and it works better with keeping it snapped in (direction doesnt matter).
It really needs to snap in - it is like a light plastiky snap and „feels“ like a micro switch „click“ (for less of better words)
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Re: Hermanns System
Haha! I managed to get a connection without taking those covers off, but it would also fall out at the slightest provocation. I only realised when one of the translucent covers finally fell on the floor...
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
Re: Hermanns System
Problem solved, thanks Defender.
However, the plug does not snap in. Rather, the sits pretty tight when light pressure is applied. Anyway, both now respond synchronously to remote control commands.
However, the plug does not snap in. Rather, the sits pretty tight when light pressure is applied. Anyway, both now respond synchronously to remote control commands.
Trust your ears