My system up in Aberdeenshire

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linesrg
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My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by linesrg »

Good Evening All,

As I have posted elsewhere after a period of almost 20years where my hi-fi interest have very much taken a back seat I'm now 'back in the fold' and trying to catch up on what has been happening in that period.

The cantilever on my cartridge got damaged at some point when my children were younger so I knew that at the very least that I needed a new cartridge.

What did I have:-

1. A relatively early Linn Karik/ Numerik
2. A LP12 with Lingo Mk.I, Ekos MkII, Arkiv, Cirkus
3. Naim NAC 82 c/w Supercap
4. A Naim SNAXO 3/6 c/w Hicap
5. 3off Nain NAP250's
6. Linn Isobariks

I knew all the Naim units were well overdue for a service so this was arranged via Darran at Class A (along with the Karik/ Numerik) and a visit was arranged at Cymbiosis to see what LP12 upgrades were all about.

Listening to various upgrades at Cymbiosis saw me opting for a Akurate Radikal, Keel and Krystal upgrade to the LP12. Peter found that there was an issue with the horizontal bearing in the Ekos along with damage to the arm cable. The arm was despatched to Audio Origami for some fettling and far from cheap silver Ikeda cables fitted.

My Isobariks weren't in the best of health as 3 of the 4 tweeters had suffered from depressed cones and one enclosure had suffered scuffing damage when we moved up to Scotland 19 years ago. I started looking for a replacement pair and was fortunate to find a pair being sold in Huddersfield.

I am still looking for a very late pair of Isobariks with the Kustone modification......

I took the opportunity to listen to a Klimax DS/3 Katalyst when I returned to Cymbiosis to collect the LP12, the sound coming out from this device was quite a surprise.

Where or what next.

I joined various forums and started monitoring various outlets and getting a handle on current market prices for items I wanted and what I might get for selling on what I had.

I've bought a very late Karik with all the modifications and also a late Numerik ( 2 actually). The listening session with the streamer at Cymbiosis caused me to have a complete re-think on the direction concerning CD's.

I have now ripped all our existing CD's and bought a Synology DS218j to store them on. I've bought a Linn Akurate DS/3 Katalyst now and I is interesting to compare the sound of the Karik III/ Numerik playing a CD against the ripped CD played through the streamer. It is surprising how well the CD player sounds against both the streamer and the LP12 playing the same pieces of music.

On balance I've decided that the Karik/ Numerik units I have will be sold.

I'm currently in the process of upgrading the Naim front. I've replaced the Hicap powering the SNAXO with a Hicap DR and the old Hicap has now been sold.

I have now secured a Naim NAC52 c/w a Supercap although it hasn't yet arrived. This means the Naim NAC82 and Hicap DR will, in due course be getting sold on.

Finally I'm getting a Urika II fitted to the LP12. There were a couple of reasons for this. Firstly was a combination of Phil's demonstration of SO at Cymbiosis followed by my own experiments at home having gotten a hold of the Akurate streamer. Secondly was the yes they were/ no they aren't Linn 10% increase threat.

There are some issues with the sonic qualities of the room the hi-fi is in but as it is kind of dedicated I will be adding some acoustic bits from GIK in due course in preference to relying on SO completely.

Within a month the system will be:-

1. Linn LP12 Akurate Radikal/ Keel/ Urika II/ Ekos Mk11/ Krsytal
2. Linn Akurate DS/ 3 Katalyst
3. Naim NAC52 c/w Supercap
4. Naim SNAXO 3-6 c/w Supercap
5. 3off Naim NAP250's
6. Linn Isobariks (Linn K600 cable)

That will be it for a while. Will I look to upgrade the Ekos MkII for an SE, possibly but it would only be a UBG one. The Krystal - possibly after 1500hrs of LP playing.

It would be interesting to hear the effect on the performance of an LP12 of both a Tangerine Audio Karmen top plate and the Stiletto at Cymbiosis. Given the latter is a £4,900 expenditure I would have to consider going down the route of replacing the Akurate streamer with a Klimax.

Regards

Richard
Linn KSH, 10 channel Akurate Exactbox, Avondale SE amplification +(modified) Isobariks
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Matteo
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by Matteo »

Hi Richard

Now sit down and listen to some music

:)
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by linesrg »

Matteo,

Exactly.........

Regards

Richard
Linn KSH, 10 channel Akurate Exactbox, Avondale SE amplification +(modified) Isobariks
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by ThomasOK »

It sounds like you are going to have a quite nice system. A lot of worthwhile upgrades. My only question is why send the arm to Audio Origami? Linn will still service the Ekos II for $735 US, making sure it is to original spec, and I would personally rather have bearings (and wiring, for that matter) from the original source. They even will still work on the Ekos 1. But maybe AO is a lot cheaper, and they are the only one I know of who will fix bearings on the Ittoks and Akitos.
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by lejonklou »

ThomasOK wrote: 2019-09-28 18:51 It sounds like you are going to have a quite nice system. A lot of worthwhile upgrades. My only question is why send the arm to Audio Origami? Linn will still service the Ekos II for $735 US, making sure it is to original spec, and I would personally rather have bearings (and wiring, for that matter) from the original source. They even will still work on the Ekos 1. But maybe AO is a lot cheaper, and they are the only one I know of who will fix bearings on the Ittoks and Akitos.
Exactly my thoughts. If it's already done, get it undone. Original all the way - if music is your goal, that is.

And then I would of course recommend you listen to e Entity before you digitize your LP12.
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Tony Tune-age
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by Tony Tune-age »

Matteo wrote: 2019-09-27 23:18 Now sit down and listen to some music
My thoughts exactly...congratulation on your upgrades.

Enjoy
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Post by Ron The Mon »

Richard,
I know it's too late to give you advice but maybe someone else can benefit from my experience.

When the Linn Ikemi came out, it provided better sound than the Karik/Numerik. Many dealers ended up with traded-in Numeriks. My dealer had four used Numeriks at one point. I took the "best" (newest) one home to use with my TV satellite box and it sounded worse than the direct out. When I went back to the shop, we opened up all the Numeriks and found there were three versions; the first had a linear power supply and the other two had switch-mode power supplies, if I remember correctly.

I took all three versions home and version one sounded best in my Naim system. The garbage spewed back into the mains from the early Linn SMPS units is terrible with Naim amps. I also seem to remember the Karik III sounded better on it's own than with a Numerik with Naim amps. To this day I have never owned a dedicated CD player. I ended up with a Beresford D/A convertor, for less than $200 new back then. I still use it in my bedroom system.

Naim pre-amps and power-amps are affected tremendously by external forces.

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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by Music Lover »

linesrg wrote: 2019-09-27 23:02
Within a month the system will be:-

1. Linn LP12 Akurate Radikal/ Keel/ Urika II/ Ekos Mk11/ Krsytal
2. Linn Akurate DS/ 3 Katalyst
3. Naim NAC52 c/w Supercap
4. Naim SNAXO 3-6 c/w Supercap
5. 3off Naim NAP250's
6. Linn Isobariks (Linn K600 cable)
Nice and fun system, enjoy!
Owned a LP12/52/250/Sara system around 1990, it was great.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by linesrg »

lejonklou wrote: 2019-09-28 19:01
ThomasOK wrote: 2019-09-28 18:51 It sounds like you are going to have a quite nice system. A lot of worthwhile upgrades. My only question is why send the arm to Audio Origami? Linn will still service the Ekos II for $735 US, making sure it is to original spec, and I would personally rather have bearings (and wiring, for that matter) from the original source. They even will still work on the Ekos 1. But maybe AO is a lot cheaper, and they are the only one I know of who will fix bearings on the Ittoks and Akitos.
Exactly my thoughts. If it's already done, get it undone. Original all the way - if music is your goal, that is.

And then I would of course recommend you listen to e Entity before you digitize your LP12.
I could ask what the Entity is - there is nothing on your web site under Phono???????

As regards the work done by AO, I don't know that it would be that much cheaper but it and the changing in arm wiring was done under advisement.

Regards

Richard
Linn KSH, 10 channel Akurate Exactbox, Avondale SE amplification +(modified) Isobariks
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by lejonklou »

linesrg wrote: 2019-10-03 23:40I could ask what the Entity is - there is nothing on your web site under Phono???????
True that! And it will take a little while longer until it's there. The circuit boards are being made right now and I can't wait to tell you more about them here on the forum this weekend.

The only specimen that exists is my prototype which was demonstrated at X-Fi in the Netherlands last weekend and is now playing music in my living room. But it won't take long until they're available at your local specialist HiFi store.
linesrg wrote: 2019-10-03 23:40As regards the work done by AO, I don't know that it would be that much cheaper but it and the changing in arm wiring was done under advisement.
My comments regarding your Ekos probably sounded harsh. The reason, however, is that my experience with modified LP12 turntables is very near 100% negative. And I don't mean negative as in "I slightly prefer the original" - no, I find that most aftermarket parts and modifications of the LP12 completely kills it. And I'm not exaggerating.

The LP12 is a product of decades of trial and error, where the key to progress is a critical and exact evaluation of each and every step forward. I've heard Linn arms rewired, rebuilt with other bearings and with alternative tonearm cables. They have without exceptions so far been terrible and you can tell from the first few notes that the balance is lost. I'd trade anyone of them for an original Basik Plus.

I've listened to alternative motors and motor controllers and also built two of them myself as projects at the University. They have all killed the pace and the effortless musical flow that is the hallmark of the LP12. I would rather listen to a Linn Axis turntable than an LP12 with any of them. At least I now understand why my own designs were a failure, both on a theoretical level and due to my lack of thorough and consistent evaluation of every part of their design. When I thought they were done and ready, I had only just begun.

I have also listened to a number of aftermarket plinths, top plates, suspensions, feet, belts and mats for the LP12. These have screwed up both the music and the sound to such a degree that I'm amazed how anyone could voluntarily choose them over the original parts. The explanation, however, is usually that they've been developed using a modified LP12, where each new part is trying to compensate for the problems of the previous alternative part, until there's nothing left but problems.

So far the only exception that I can think of is alternative plinths made out of wood, for instance the Woodsong plinths. Those are actually musical.

The sad part is that nearly all of the audio companies I've visited and nearly every person working with developing audio products that I've been in contact with have 1) no proper method of evaluating their designs nor a conviction of the absolute necessity of doing so, and 2) no grit, stamina or persistence. And when I begin explaining to them how I work, they laugh, pat me on the back and say "you need to relax and have a beer, this isn't life or death ".

May I end this long rant by saying that I genuinely hope your arm sounds terrific and that you'll enjoy every record you listen to?
I really mean that.
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by ThomasOK »

linesrg wrote: 2019-10-03 23:40
lejonklou wrote: 2019-09-28 19:01
ThomasOK wrote: 2019-09-28 18:51 It sounds like you are going to have a quite nice system. A lot of worthwhile upgrades. My only question is why send the arm to Audio Origami? Linn will still service the Ekos II for $735 US, making sure it is to original spec, and I would personally rather have bearings (and wiring, for that matter) from the original source. They even will still work on the Ekos 1. But maybe AO is a lot cheaper, and they are the only one I know of who will fix bearings on the Ittoks and Akitos.
Exactly my thoughts. If it's already done, get it undone. Original all the way - if music is your goal, that is.

And then I would of course recommend you listen to e Entity before you digitize your LP12.
I could ask what the Entity is - there is nothing on your web site under Phono???????

As regards the work done by AO, I don't know that it would be that much cheaper but it and the changing in arm wiring was done under advisement.

Regards

Richard
I also truly hope you fully enjoy the system when it is all put together. But I'm afraid my experiences parallel those of Fredrik, having listened to any number of alternative LP12 parts including top plates, subchassis, armboards, magnetic bearing lifters, mats, belts - the list goes on and on since I have owned and been working on LP12s for 41 years.

Neither Fredrik nor I like any of the silver wires we have heard. I did have to reassemble and rewire an Ekos a customer brought to me in pieces with a custom silver wiring loom. Luckily the bearings had not been damaged and I was able to carefully adjust the bearings fro no free play and very low friction, but I was not impressed with the sound the silver wiring lent to the complete table.

There are dealers who are more enamored of the third party items for the LP12 and there are those like Colin at What You See and Hear, and myself, who have not been happy with them. Neither he nor I would every dream of sending an Ekos anywhere but Linn for rebuild.

I know Peter and he and I have helped each other out a time or two. I know he prides himself on having direct comparisons changing just a single item, so it might be worthwhile if you could have him set up a comparison of the AO modified Ekos with a properly operating stock Ekos 2 to find out for yourself what you hear. It would be a shame to have all the worthwhile improvements you are doing to the LP12 be held back somewhat by one component that doesn't do its job fully.

Enough has been discussed here for me to safely say that the Entity is a MC phono stage Lejonklou are about to introduce that is much, MUCH less expensive than the SINGularity. It is in compact casework the same size as a Slipsik and uses much of what was learned from the SINGularity design work. I am seriously looking forward to it and expect it to be quite a value for the money.
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Re: My system up in Aberdeenshire

Post by linesrg »

Ron the mon,

Interesting how people can have different experiences of the same equipment.

I can definitely hear differences between my three Karik's and three Numeriks.

The later (25th anniversary) Karik III has surprised me with how good it is alone but it is undeniably better going through the late Numerik i.e. this is both items with the Slimline Brilliant PSU.

If anything I would like to build a super-regulator supply for both units and try it out.

On balance though I plan to dispose of all the Karik/ Numeriks and stick with the Linn DS/3 Katalyst streamer and LP12.

Last night I was listening to the 192kHz download of Carman Gomes' 'Don't you Cry' through the streamer and wondering why all music can't be recorded and presented like it.

My challenge is to find a copy of say Led Zeppelin III that doesn't sound like an elephant is sitting on it!!!!!! At the risk of offending any sound engineers on this site an awful lot of records out there are really pretty crap if truth be told and the FLAC downloads aren't always an improvement.

If recordings like the Carmen Gomes one mentioned above and Chris Jones' 'Roadhouses & Automobiles' can be made then why are there so many others so far behind?

Regards

Richard
Linn KSH, 10 channel Akurate Exactbox, Avondale SE amplification +(modified) Isobariks
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