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Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2019-04-20 04:04
by markiteight
Great feedback, everybody! I have to say I agree with all the comments, even the contradictory ones. It's a bit of a conundrum, but then...
andy2 wrote: 2019-04-19 10:39 What type of interconnects are you sporting there?
Is everything kosher at that end?
A very good question, a2! I was using all blacks. Here it is again with silvers between Linto and Exotik:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/424t3ppsnldrh ... 0.MOV?dl=0
Charlie1 wrote: 2019-04-19 08:22 How are you currently connecting the Linto to Nait? I am not sure this is the level playing field I was hoping to hear. Agree with beck and this set of clips sound really good though.
Currently the only thing I have that's Nait compatible is a sketchy looking thing that came with it:
Image
I agree this probably tilts the playing field in Linn's favor. Furthermore I discovered last night that the retaining bolt for the Nait's transformer is completely loose and the transformer is flopping around. I think it's time to sort the cables and torques before any conclusions are made.
Charlie1 wrote: 2019-04-19 08:22 I have not tried purpose built RCA-to-Phono leads - I think Chord make them. I use a Urika and don't have a jig so it's difficult for me to access the Urika and swap cables around. I also thought that source first might rule and therefor Silvers+adaptor would be better than a less tuneful purpose built cable.

Somewhat related, the Nait 3 has both Din and RCA connectors so I was able to compare my Silver ICs straight into the amp vs Silvers+Adaptor into the amp. The RCA inputs sounded clearer but there was something I liked about the Din input despite having to use an adaptor. I did clips for a couple of members and one also felt that the RCA input was worst. I suppose this just shows that the adaptor isn't the end of the world and not degrading the signal too much.
Interesting! That convinces me it's worth a punt. Trouble is it's apparently not available in the U.S. so I'll have to do some searching.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2019-04-20 08:43
by Charlie1
Happy to order and send you one. Just pm me. Can’t guarantee it’s better then your existing rca to din cable though.

Just had a listen to black vs silver and preferred the blacks.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2020-03-02 21:41
by markiteight
Mondays are made brighter with the delivery of packages from ThomasOK:

Image

As excited as I am to get them installed in my system I'm afraid their break-in process will influence the outcome of other optimizations I'm currently working on. Should I show some restraint and keep things as-is for now or say sod it and throw them in the pot?

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2020-03-02 21:57
by Defender
you need to resist - I know its hard but its also nice to know a wonderful upgrade is waiting

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2020-03-03 00:45
by markiteight
Defender wrote: 2020-03-02 21:57 you need to resist - I know its hard but its also nice to know a wonderful upgrade is waiting
Grrr. Ok...FINE!

:: pout ::

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 06:04
by markiteight
Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 08:47
by beck
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-17 06:04 Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
Looking forward to clips from you using your HAKAI. :-)

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 09:37
by springwood64
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-17 06:04 Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
Now you have my attention :)

What version of Volumio?

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 12:18
by tokenbrit
springwood64 wrote: 2021-03-17 09:37
What version of Volumio?
Volumio 2.411, with MPD 0.21.16

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 13:03
by tokenbrit
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-17 06:04 Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
You're welcome - glad about your room and happy to hear that Volumio pees on SnakeOil ;)

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 16:54
by Spannko
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-17 06:04 Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
How would you say the Hakai compares to your LP12?

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 17:40
by beck
Spannko wrote: 2021-03-17 16:54
markiteight wrote: Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
How would you say the Hakai compares to your LP12?
Wrong question Spannko. You should ask when markiteight is going to compare his HAKAI against his Sondek using clips on this forum! :-)

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-17 18:04
by Spannko
beck wrote: 2021-03-17 17:40
Spannko wrote: 2021-03-17 16:54
markiteight wrote: Just a little update...system mi8 has gone digital :: gasp ::

With a HUGE help from tokenbrit, HAKAI proper (with Volumio) is up and running! Well...mostly. There's currently a problem with the NAS so until I get that resolved I'm playing music files off a thumb drive plugged into the back of HAKAI. Even with this arrangement and no tuning/optimization yet it already sounds far, far more musical than it did with SnakeOil. When Fredrik says, "HAKAI is one of the most musical streamers in the world and incredibly fun to listen to," he ain't kidding! Even far from optimum it's so much fun reconnecting with music I haven't heard in years, at a level I never have!

Thanks, tokenbrit. I owe you one (or five)!
How would you say the Hakai compares to your LP12?
Wrong question Spannko. You should ask when markiteight is going to compare his HAKAI against his Sondek using clips on this forum! :-)
Quite right, beck!

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-18 01:14
by markiteight
beck wrote: 2021-03-17 08:47 Looking forward to clips from you using your HAKAI. :-)
Here 'ya go:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jo78zelhmmf6f ... 3.MOV?dl=0
tokenbrit wrote: 2021-03-17 13:03 You're welcome - glad about your room and happy to hear that Volumio pees on SnakeOil ;)
Oh har. That took me much longer than it should have to get it.
Spannko wrote: 2021-03-17 16:54 How would you say the Hakai compares to your LP12?
Quite favorably. I purposely loaded the memory stick with music I don't have on vinyl so I can't do any direct comparisons at the moment, but I will soon. Judging by the way HAKAI engages me emotionally in the music I'd have to say it's at least as good, perhaps even better than my LP12.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-18 06:38
by beck
Not bad markiteight! Thank you for the clip. :-)

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-18 23:45
by Charlie1
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-18 01:14 Judging by the way HAKAI engages me emotionally in the music I'd have to say it's at least as good, perhaps even better than my LP12.
Gonna be interesting :)

Glad you're so pleased with it.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-19 00:18
by Spannko
Thanks for posting markiteight. I can’t wait for the LP12 v Hakai shootout!

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-25 05:04
by markiteight
Many more thanks to tokenbrit for his incredible patience and generosity, HAKAI is now being fed by the NAS as it should be. The difference between HAKAI via NAS and via USB memory stick is interesting. I posted a couple clips in the HAKAI Playground here: https://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtop ... 279#p55279

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-25 09:42
by Charlie1
Sounds really good Mi8 - your best clip. I think those speakers sound great with a digital source, perhaps more attuned to that than vinyl. There have been times when I wasn't so sure they were my cup of tea.

Unsure which clip I prefer - I flipped from one to the other so I'll go with my first impression which is clip 1 cos the timing seems more 'on it'.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-26 00:22
by markiteight
Thanks, Charlie1! Your comments intrigued me. I wonder...what is it that could make a speaker (or any down stream component, for that matter) more compatible with one type of source over another? Is that purely a hi-fi aspect or is it something that can be explained in the context of the tune method? In the case of the latter it seems to me that the better the source, the better the rest of the system performs, regardless of what kind of source it is. In this case the Omens sound good because HAKAI is just that good. Or am I missing something?

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-26 06:02
by Discodave
Love the look of your system!!! Really stunning, speakers go great with the shelves. Although the speakers are just beautiful full stop.

It sounds great too. I commented on your clips in the Hakai section. Many thanks for posting.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-26 10:12
by Charlie1
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-26 00:22 Thanks, Charlie1! Your comments intrigued me. I wonder...what is it that could make a speaker (or any down stream component, for that matter) more compatible with one type of source over another? Is that purely a hi-fi aspect or is it something that can be explained in the context of the tune method? In the case of the latter it seems to me that the better the source, the better the rest of the system performs, regardless of what kind of source it is. In this case the Omens sound good because HAKAI is just that good. Or am I missing something?
I think it's just a voicing thing like the recording/production of an LP can better suit one system over another. Musically, I'm sure the LP12 is better on most material, if not all. What do you think though? It's always weird this end and that clip just seemed to sound very nicely balanced. I do wonder if modern speakers slightly favour digital sources in terms of voicing, although of course there's much less in it these days. For example, there is a clear difference between Kan 1s and Tukans. The former was developed in the late 70s with a warm sounding original bearing LP12 and probably warm sounding 1970s analogue recordings. The other was developed in the mid 90's for Linn CD players (vinyl sales were on their knees) and leaner 1990s digital recordings to satisfy. These days vinyl and digital sources sound quite close with a Klimax LP12 and Klimax DS sounding broadly similar but digital is still the primary format they need to get right. Anyway, just an observation - open to other ideas on this.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-26 10:39
by Spannko
I think you’re right charlie1. The Kan2’s were definitely designed to have a different voice to the Kan1’s, in order to make them more compatible with the more “modern” sound from CD and increase their market appeal. Musicality was obviously a secondary consideration 😮

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-27 23:41
by markiteight
Charlie1 wrote: 2021-03-26 10:12 I think it's just a voicing thing like the recording/production of an LP can better suit one system over another. Musically, I'm sure the LP12 is better on most material, if not all. What do you think though? It's always weird this end and that clip just seemed to sound very nicely balanced. I do wonder if modern speakers slightly favour digital sources in terms of voicing, although of course there's much less in it these days. For example, there is a clear difference between Kan 1s and Tukans. The former was developed in the late 70s with a warm sounding original bearing LP12 and probably warm sounding 1970s analogue recordings. The other was developed in the mid 90's for Linn CD players (vinyl sales were on their knees) and leaner 1990s digital recordings to satisfy. These days vinyl and digital sources sound quite close with a Klimax LP12 and Klimax DS sounding broadly similar but digital is still the primary format they need to get right. Anyway, just an observation - open to other ideas on this.
After listening to your latest pair of clips over on the Playground thread I think I'm beginning to understand what you're on about. With your early bearing, early Lingo'd decks I preferred the Adikt. But when I did a similar comparison with my Cirkus deck and Lingo 3 the Adikt slightly lost out to the MC. I wonder...does the Adikt fits into the hierarchy established by your decks better than the Krystal? I also wonder if the Mk. 1 Ekos is arm enough for the Krystal, and if it needs at least a Lingo 4 to maintain the hierarchy. It's the most likely candidate to replace my Lyra when it eventually goes tango-uniform but I'm not sure if the rest of the deck in its current configuration is up to the task.
Discodave wrote: 2021-03-26 06:02 Love the look of your system!!! Really stunning, speakers go great with the shelves. Although the speakers are just beautiful full stop.

It sounds great too. I commented on your clips in the Hakai section. Many thanks for posting.
You're quite welcome, Disco, and thank you! The speakers are finished in what Zu calls Rustic Hickory. It's my favorite out of all the finishes they offer and it's also the standard, no cost choice. All the other finishes are extra cost options. Bonus!
Spannko wrote: 2021-03-26 10:39 I think you’re right charlie1. The Kan2’s were definitely designed to have a different voice to the Kan1’s, in order to make them more compatible with the more “modern” sound from CD and increase their market appeal. Musicality was obviously a secondary consideration 😮
This just makes me want to find a good pair of Mk1 Kans even more! I really like Tukans but I've never heard Kans of any incarnation.

Re: It really ties the room together

Posted: 2021-03-29 11:26
by Charlie1
markiteight wrote: 2021-03-27 23:41 After listening to your latest pair of clips over on the Playground thread I think I'm beginning to understand what you're on about. With your early bearing, early Lingo'd decks I preferred the Adikt. But when I did a similar comparison with my Cirkus deck and Lingo 3 the Adikt slightly lost out to the MC. I wonder...does the Adikt fits into the hierarchy established by your decks better than the Krystal? I also wonder if the Mk. 1 Ekos is arm enough for the Krystal, and if it needs at least a Lingo 4 to maintain the hierarchy. It's the most likely candidate to replace my Lyra when it eventually goes tango-uniform but I'm not sure if the rest of the deck in its current configuration is up to the task.
Not sure if Adikt is better suited to old 80s systems in some way - I suspect most people would prefer the Krystal in any system to the Adikt. And I'm really enjoying the Krystal deck with L2 in the study. I just think the Adikt better suits the way I experience music which is slightly different to most here. My dealer said a few people just prefer MMs, and I suspect I'm one of them, but that's probably an over simplification as I don't really have that much experience comparing them.

Never heard the Ekos 1. I would think the Krystal will be fine considering it was probably developed with both the Akito 3 and Ekos SE in mind. Similarly, I'm sure it will be fine with a Lingo 3 since that was part of the Akurate spec at the time of the Krystal launch.

I suspect the gross differences of the 80s kit are largely a thing of the past. Most modern hifi is more neutral so you don't need to worry so much. Any of the current Linn LP12 components should play nicely together, as will Lejonklou and Linn amps. Also bear in mind there's not much of a sonic difference between the Ekos 2 and Ekos SE - it was more of a musical upgrade to my mind (with Cirkus/Keel).