Fredrik Lejonklous System?

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monkeydevil
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Post by monkeydevil »

Music Lover wrote: I suggest a combination of isobarik and Komponent. (with Majik 109 as alternative)
Komponent/M109 are very revealing AND musical speakers.
But are these full range?
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Post by Music Lover »

monkeydevil wrote:
Music Lover wrote: I suggest a combination of isobarik and Komponent. (with Majik 109 as alternative)
Komponent/M109 are very revealing AND musical speakers.
But are these full range?
Yes Isobarik is.
K/M are used for other tests as indicated above.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by ThomasOK »

While I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call the 242s truly full range (for that you'd have to go for the Isobariks) I do think they are probably your best bet in a Linn speaker used as a development platform. (How's that for narrowly defining an objective - I can't help it I am used to Isobariks and ATC 100s, real full-range speakers.)

The 242s are at least pretty close to full range and they represent the current Linn speaker lineup and sound quite well. Also, being a four and a half way, they are likely one of the more complicated crossovers and loads you would ever have to drive. This makes them a good torture test for amps (though no more so than Isobariks, I would think). So, yeah, another vote for the 242s.
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242

Post by anthony »

Thomas, when you define the 242 as not full range, are you referring to the latest spec? I regularly hear 350s and granted they move more air, but am never disappointed by the 242 in comparison. I owned Isobariks and Keltiks but still spend many happy hours with the 242.....with solos, that may help!
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Re: 242

Post by Music Lover »

anthony wrote:with solos, that may help!
Yes!
Tested many amps on 242 and solo dig out a lot more/deeper bass than Twin with a 221sub.
Adding a 221 sub to Solo/242 makes a relatively tiny difference.
Using solo with different speakers you notice two items, very good bass control (tighter and cleaner) and the speaker goes a lot deeper.
Apart from the musical improvements...
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by ThomasOK »

I have not heard latest spec 242s with Solos so I can't really comment on that combination.

Of course, Solos with anything helps... And with the latest spec 242s should certainly be a lovely setup.
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Post by Music Lover »

Thomas, the new Akurate is better but they still have same character. It's not a big improvement.
Trading old gen 242 getting a new pair isn't good use of the money IMHO.
It's all about musical understanding!
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Post by anthony »

I think the change is worthwhile, and two friends who have changed consider the improvement to have addressed their original reservations.
I suppose this can be qualified by if everything else in the system is correct, the new 242 is worth the difference.
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Re: 242

Post by Music Lover »

anthony wrote:I think the change is worthwhile, and two friends who have changed consider the improvement to have addressed their original reservations.
Interesting please elaborate about their thoughts.
Deeper, tighter bass and overall more refined apart from a tune enhancement is what I think...
They didn't consider selling their amps/old 242 and getting used Artikulat 320/350?
What amps are they using with the new 242's?
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Post by lejonklou »

Brief update: Trying a pair of Espeks right now. The similarities with Katan (same tweeter and midrange unit) are obvious. They also have additional qualities, such low frequency extension and a slightly different way of presenting the music.

I have installed a couple of these before and have found that their ported, quite deep digging bass can sometimes interact with a room in a way that requires a lot of tuning to stop it from becoming boomy. Not so here, they seem to get along just fine.

Will do some more tuning of the exact position in the room. But I can tell right away that tuning subsonic filters in electronics will become a lot easier than with passive Katans; it's very obvious when something interferes with the deepest notes and when they're presented correctly.
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Post by Charlie1 »

I recall someone saying that the Espek bass was somewhat detached or out of time with the rest of the music and once you began to notice this then it could become quite annoying. Does that ring true at all with your experiences at the moment?
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Post by lejonklou »

I know the problem you're describing and it was just that I tried describing above. In some rooms, Espeks can be a challenge. In my room the bass was well integrated even before I began tuning them. So they seem to fit very well here.

When I start making speakers, I know this area will be a challenge. The optimal Q (how damped or freely resonant the construction is in the lowest bass) and frequency extension will have to be evaluated in many different rooms and surroundings. In Japan, they sometimes have paper walls. Some American homes have huge and heavily damped living rooms. Scandinavian style apartments can be the opposite of that. I'm looking forward to some travelling! :mrgreen:
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Post by anthony »

Interesting please elaborate about their thoughts.
Deeper, tighter bass and overall more refined apart from a tune enhancement is what I think...
They didn't consider selling their amps/old 242 and getting used Artikulat 320/350?
What amps are they using with the new 242's?
There is more bass, they are more integrated, and so much more refined, but most of all more tuneful.
Amps are twin on one pair and solos on the other.
Really cannot get into 320, and I consider(in my room) new 242 does everything I want. I would only consider klimax 350 worth changing for.
This is qualified in the context of my system in my room.
Have heard artikulat and klimax 350 sound amazing elsewhere, my 242 are in a small room on a suspended floor.
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Post by Linntek »

lejonklou wrote:The similarities with Katan (same tweeter and midrange unit) are obvious.
I thought Espek midrange was a Tukan bass, but that might have been in AV5140 ?
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Post by ThomasOK »

Linntek wrote:
lejonklou wrote:The similarities with Katan (same tweeter and midrange unit) are obvious.
I thought Espek midrange was a Tukan bass, but that might have been in AV5140 ?
Yes, that was the AV5140. With the Espek all three drivers were upgraded substantially and the tweeter and midbass units are the same as the Katan (and also the Trikan and Ekwal).
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Post by Linntek »

I think I have seen Espeks with 15/5 tweeters, but I'm proberbly wrong.
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Post by lejonklou »

Right now I'm trying passive Majik 109's. Quite an interesting speaker and in some ways the opposite of Espek.

I found that as an analysis instrument, the Espeks are not exactly ideal. They focus on musicality and the whole picture, and as such are very enjoyable, once correctly installed. They also project the music all over the room, with each driver playing a very wide frequency range. This reminds me a bit of Isobariks in the way they "drive the room" - while at the same time they don't sound like Isobariks at all.

The 109's, on the other hand, are much more analytical. Lots of detail and very easy to make tiny electronic comparisons with. Differences that on the Espeks would appear as rather insignificant (hey, it's a great song, turn it up!) are with the 109's given focus. I can tell right away that just like Katan, these speakers will depend a lot on the quality of the signal they're receiving.

The 109's are very musical and enjoyable. The bass is well defined and easy to follow. It's more damped than Katan, which gives a bit more quality at the expense of quantity. Something I normally embrace, but after Espeks I'm left missing the entire bottom end. Ouch! Seems I can't have it all without spending a fortune... I instantly start thinking about a subwoofer, but I know that won't cure the problem entirely. Because a sub plays only the last octave really well, and it's more than that which is missing.

I also get the impression that the 109's will work better close to the wall than Katan did (which was very difficult to wall mount).

One final negative comment on an otherwise really good speaker, with excellent value for money: That silver pod on top of the black plastic cavity is quite ugly and always attracting the eye. If I decide to keep the 109's in my living room, I will have to paint the pods black.
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Post by Music Lover »

Fredrik, have you put Keel back in the LP12 yet?
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Post by monkeydevil »

lejonklou wrote: I also get the impression that the 109's will work better close to the wall than Katan did (which was very difficult to wall mount).
Do you mean that you think it would be possible to wall mount them and keep them musical and nice?
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Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:They also project the music all over the room, with each driver playing a very wide frequency range. This reminds me a bit of Isobariks in the way they "drive the room" - while at the same time they don't sound like Isobariks at all.

Is this similar to Ninkas in your experience? I like the way I can’t hear the music emanate from the Ninkas specifically – it just exists in front of me but doesn’t strike me as being anything to do with the two speakers – they just happen to be standing there minding their own business :) Or am I noticing something that’s a result of Aktiv operation and misinterpreting your post?
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Post by lejonklou »

ML: No, Keel not back in place yet. Soon!

md: Well, the 109's do sound a lot worse when I put them close to the wall. They are optimal at just below 20 cm here and I would certainly not want them wall mounted. I still suspect that they will be less problematic than Katan in this position.

C1: The effect you're talking about depends a lot on the installation, in my opinion, so it's possible it could be obtained with many other speakers. Do you find it in your own system specifically or with all Ninkas?

The Epeks are quite different from Ninkas, as they have a bit of the monitor sound of Katan and in addition a backfiring bass unit that is very gently filtered. That is; you can basically hear everything except the treble from that rear bass. Quite an interesting arrangement, I wouldn't mind hearing it combined with the 2k array and woofer of the 109's...
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Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:The effect you're talking about depends a lot on the installation, in my opinion, so it's possible it could be obtained with many other speakers. Do you find it in your own system specifically or with all Ninkas?
I haven't heard any other Ninkas :(
I've heard passive 109s and passive 242s in recent months and had more sense of the music coming from the speakers directly. Both should have been well setup systems.
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Post by Music at Home »

Fredrick,

Now you've had the 109's in place for a couple of weeks and you've had the chance to live with them for a bit longer what's your verdict?

I got the impression from your earlier post that you felt they were better than Katans in some ways but perhaps not really a big upgrade overall. Would that be a fair assesment?
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Post by Linnofil »

lejonklou wrote:That silver pod on top of the black plastic cavity is quite ugly and always attracting the eye. If I decide to keep the 109's in my living room, I will have to paint the pods black.
I will soon have the same problem. I got my white Majik 109/silver stands 9 days ago, but have not been able to listen to them at all. (There was something wrong with both stands and speakers, as usual with me... :cry: )

Since i feel the same way as you do about the silver pods I really tried hard to convince everybody at Linn, when I was there recently, to launch black 2k pods. I got the impression that they listened to my arguments and really considered it. At least they could launch it as a limited edition spare part. (A 2k array cost about $130, or?) Let's hope they do just that. It does seem like a common opinion that black is beautiful! ;) )

I think that the design was made to attract attention to the 2k pods as that was their "gimmick". The 2k was the new thing back then. But now that the novelty is gone among Linn buyers, we just want good looking speakers. When I had Komponent 110, a common comment was that the top speaker looked like the top of a coke can. (Unfortunately I could only agree with them as I felt the same way.)
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Post by lejonklou »

M@H: I do feel that 109 are better than Katan! More precise and accurate, less distorted. But I also feel that the "fun" level is not all that much better.

Katan is rock and roll. Just feed it more and it will give you more. Not the highest resolution in the world, but good enough to enjoy any music. Lots of fun for little money.

109 is like a precision monitor version of Katan. Dry and controlled. But you also trade a bit of quantity for the increased quality. Haven't heard them aktiv yet, that might do the trick. Or perhaps they should be converted to internal K400 wiring, as I did in my Katan's? In addition, there are some probably not so great sounding connectors inside the 109's that might be holding them back a little.

Linnofil: Both speakers and stands were faulty?? I will tell you what the 109's look like when I've painted my pods. Shouldn't be too difficult.
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