Henrik's rig

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HenrikLI
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Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

Hi all!

I've listen to music on Linn-gear since the 90s. Tune dem, source first etc etc. Never have the sound been so clear as now. Rhythm, harmonies and individual instruments are easily followed. However am i still not totally convinced that it plays like “life”, as from memory the last lp12 I had did.

I think that for the better part of the last year I’ve tried every installation-trick i know of. Even laborated with sound optimisation (which made it worse). Experimented with ethernet cables and their directionality (which gave a good improvement). “Hand-tuned” the basses on the 109’s. Moved around the furniture to put the stereo in best possible place etc.

Bottom line, I think I have done what I’m capable of, far from being a master of this. So partly I think it plays pretty good now. But there is still songs in which the contrabass in for example jazz doesnt feel 100% in tune. Not often though, but still… So the question is, can one get the installation right but still experience some records as musically sub-par? Can virtually any rig get “right” in installation, if you get my question?

Or is the 109s simply bottlenecking?

I have till tomorrow to decide on a deal on a 2016/17 lp12 with new akito, lingo 4, adikt. Do you guys think that it will be a real step up (the dsm has to go in that case)? Its too many years since the last lp12 that I’m unsure. Also, I cant listen for myself.

Oh, and one last special point has to be made on the “Harmonihyllan”. The single most important upgrade I have made, maybe due a very noisy environment where I live, but still, stupidly huge. And its also wierd that the impact of the network seems far less afterwards. Don't even understand it, the dsm acts as it is more imune against disturbances even from the ethernet?

And of course a great thank you all for all the great knowledge you share!!!

/Henrik



System:
REDSM, Boazu, 109, silver/k200

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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Charlie1 »

Nice looking system.

Overall, I don't think digital can touch vinyl for music recording in 1980's and earlier. Digital just doesn't sound as real or engaging to me. If you can purchase initial release in good condition (doesn't need to be first pressing) then you're always onto a winner.

But if you only listen to new releases then I don't know. Possibly it varies between release too.

If I was in your shoes and only really interested in new music then I'd stick to streaming.

Can't imagine your 109s are a bottleneck in this regard.

Do you like or miss playing records? Personally, I still love it, but some people are bored with it and the hassle. You've got to enjoy the 'process' or there's no point.

Sounds like a great bang-for-buck LP12 ;)
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by beck »

Do you own a record collection? Do you miss something when listening to your system? Something like what can be (kind of) heard in the clip below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYz71OwLXQM

Remember that you need a phono preamp to go with the Sondek.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by ThomasOK »

If you are looking for musical realism and enjoyability I have yet to hear a digital streaming device that can perform on a level with any decent LP12. It is certainly not as convenient but it puts you more in touch with the music. I expect you would find the same music will be easier to get into played on the LP12 you are talking about than it is with your KRDSM. You will need a phono stage for the LP12 and the Lejonklou Slipsik 6 is the ideal choice.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by lejonklou »

Nice looking system!

Is your Boazu version 1.1? That's an inexpensive upgrade that I think makes quite a difference.

The choice between digital or LP12 will, as others have pointed out, depend a lot on your record collection, your love for vinyl and the hassle or pleasure you get from the whole procedure with that media. I still enjoy it immensely!
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

Thanks for your engaged answers!

Fredrik you came bicycling with the 1.1 B to the train station in Uppsala where me and my kid met up:)

A Slipsick is a given if there will be a lp12.

I used to love to be part of the vinyl-hassle, collecting, fiddling with the records and the feel of it. But laying on the sofa with so much music literally in your hand is something special. So, being a bit older, the inconvenience of vinyl is an issue. But on the other hand, what really matters is of course the music. Ugh, such a hard decision to make. Much appreciated your views on streaming/vinyl especially since my dealer gives me quite mixed “recommendations” on this. And yes, theres at least several hundreds of records stuffed away, mostly from 60-70.

And about the question if there is always a way to “install-your-way-out-of-untune”. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding of my part. But I meen have you experienced a situation where you optimized the installation and just felt that you have simply reached the limits of that particular gear? What I’m fishing at is that it can be irritating to know that maybe if I try to move around the speakers just one last time… To upgrade or to really get it right with what you have.

/H
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Spannko »

Henrik,

Given that you enjoy the benefits of a DS based system, do you think it would be worth spending some time trying to determine a) if there’s anything more you can do to improve the tunefulness of your current system, b) listen to a Katalyst KDS to see if this solves your problem, before c) listening to various LP12 configurations to see what level of setup would solve your problem?

With regard to a), a couple of things come to mind. If you’ve seen the videos posted by charlie1 and myself you’ll be aware of how important your mains wiring is to your musical enjoyment. We’ve a fair way to go before we can make any definite recommendations, but I’ve got a feeling that cable direction is really important and can make the difference between allowing your system to sing or sounding quite boring. For what it would cost, it’s well worth getting an electrician to run you two cables, running in opposite directions so you can eliminate this as a problem. Also, you don’t mention which NAS you’re using. If it’s not been optimised for music, then you’re probably not getting the best out of your current system. Lejonklou has done a lot of research in this area and his conclusion was that the NAS looks to be more important (musically) than the DS!

Are some records musically sub-par? Definitely! I’d say that about 80% of recordings are either musically or technically deficient. Analog or digital, it doesn’t matter, we still have to pan for those little gold nuggets!
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Charlie1 »

HenrikLI wrote:I used to love to be part of the vinyl-hassle, collecting, fiddling with the records and the feel of it. But laying on the sofa with so much music literally in your hand is something special. So, being a bit older, the inconvenience of vinyl is an issue. But on the other hand, what really matters is of course the music. Ugh, such a hard decision to make. Much appreciated your views on streaming/vinyl especially since my dealer gives me quite mixed “recommendations” on this. And yes, theres at least several hundreds of records stuffed away, mostly from 60-70.
Can you home dem the LP12 for a week?

What sort of music do you mainly listen to?

Agree with Spannko, try to improve the mains wiring and digital back-end.
HenrikLI wrote:And about the question if there is always a way to “install-your-way-out-of-untune”. Maybe it is just a misunderstanding of my part. But I meen have you experienced a situation where you optimized the installation and just felt that you have simply reached the limits of that particular gear? What I’m fishing at is that it can be irritating to know that maybe if I try to move around the speakers just one last time… To upgrade or to really get it right with what you have.
To be honest, when my system is sounding right then I don't think about it at all and nothing really strikes me. Maybe there is a bit more for you to do, somewhere. Speaker positioning is always very important to my enjoyment but it sounds like you've tweaked the pants out of your setup.

Not sure about borrowing a KDS. I wonder if you'd be too busy enjoying the better music to ever think that sometimes it's out of tune, and then you'd have to go back to your normal player afterwards, which would be miserable if you've had the KDS any length of time.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by ThomasOK »

OK, so lets get down to brass tacks! First of all, are there ways to make your system more musical? I think it is highly likely, but you do seem to have done a lot to get the most music. First off though, I don't see any damping on the reference bottom shelf of your spruce harmony rack. Unless something has changed, certainly a possibility as I don't get all the updates on this, you should have a piece of damping in the middle of the bottom shelf. A piece of 1" thick Dacron polyester fiberfill about 7 or 8" by about 4" makes a significant improvement (I am not at home so I don't have the size I'm using, which might not be the precise perfect size). Secondly, unless the REDSM has been precision torqued there is extra performance available there. I received two PMs just this week from people in the UK who torqued their KRDS units using my settings both of whom were quite pleased with the improvement. Others have mentioned AC power so there are a few things you can try.

On the other hand your initial post stated "However am i still not totally convinced that it plays like “life”, as from memory the last lp12 I had did.". This is what I responded to in my first reply and I will state here that I don't think you will be. I find that digital musical transmission and reproduction has improved over the last decade or so. Also I do now find I can sit and enjoy music played through my KRDS from my LS-NAS without immediately reaching for the vinyl version of the recording. However, I still find that vinyl provides a connection to the music and its playing that even the best digital reproduction (KKDS) fails to fully convey. Since you say you have several hundred LPs stashed away, mostly from the 60s and 70s (as far as I am concerned the golden age of rock and pop in its various guises, along with a lot of fabulous jazz) I don't think there is any way you will currently get the visceral connection you are looking for without an LP12. Just my opinion, good luck whatever way you wish to go.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by beck »

ThomasOK, it is not just your opinion. It is also mine. :-)
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by lejonklou »

HenrikLI wrote:Fredrik you came bicycling with the 1.1 B to the train station in Uppsala where me and my kid met up:)
Oh, that was you! Nice meetup. :)
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

Well thanks again for your time!

The lp12 deal is of. Mainly due to practical reasons, even though by heart I sort of know that it’s something extra. Been missing a lp12 for so long but in a one room apartment with the kid and his friends running around I would be an unbearable nervous parent.

There's really need for an electrician's work here anyways, so Spannko when the day comes your tip will certainly be considered.

And Thomas, thanks for reminding about the dampening. Anders didn't mention that, so I thought he had made new tweaks making it unnecessary. And for the tourquening, that’s something that has to be done! Just not sure how without the right tools.

About the NAS. I've been reluctant to build one since the streaming mostly been a testing-project and that the hopes been to go back to vinyl after a while. And partly because a) LS-NAS cannot be built any longer b) buying a qnap/synology could be better than my fanless i5/ssd laptop (probably) but not for sure - and if not you end up with lots of money spent on nothing and c) I could build something with the “best” parts, but that's also taking a blind chance. A catch 22, dont want to go all-in on streaming because I know a lp12 is preferable, but also unsure on the best way to go all-in on streaming.

Another reason I’ve taken a moment off from the nas-building plans is that before the Harmonihyllan there were a more noticeable difference between the stored music and tidal. Before it was a night and day difference, not so much now. I’ve also gone through three different routers which also narrowed the distance to hard drive-music. Currently using Asus rt-ac86u, and it look cheapish and toyish, but its way better than the last netgear router at least. I think that even the advantage of the netgear switch disappeared… I know you will facepalm at this, no real nas, really…???:)

/H
Last edited by HenrikLI on 2018-03-30 07:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

Well it ain't pretty for sure...

IMG_20180330routermindre.jpg
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

IMG_20180531_181532-03.jpeg
Ok, so the dsm is changed for a lp12. Also added a slipsik 6.1. There was no time to compare the riaa with the Gaio 2, so can't report anything there I'm affraid.

2017 lp12, kore, akito3, lingo3, at95.

The difference to streaming (mainly tidal) is overwhelming. More natural rythm, flow, tighter, and above all else so much more focused.

Don't know if theres much burn in to expect.

Anyway, it's good to be back on vinyl.

Cheers all!

(the cloth on the amp and around the slipsik is removed )

/Henrik
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by beck »

Great HenrikLI. Sure looking good. Do not change cartridge too quickly to a more expensive one. The one on your Sondek ticks all the right boxes when it comes to music! Happy listening. :-)
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Charlie1 »

Nice plinth too. What is it?

Interested to know how you get on over time. Enjoy!
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by ThomasOK »

Congratulations Henrik, it looks like a nice setup and I'm glad you are happy with the vinyl. The plinth looks like rosewood of some type and is quite attractive. Being a 2017 LP12 that must be a custom plinth. If the plinth is the same age I would guess it is cocobolo as I haven't seen any recent rosewoods quite that colorful. Have fun with the system.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Music Lover »

Henrik, ask Anders to send you the correct damping material and size.

Yes, it’s a Rosewood LP12, looking great!
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

Thanks guys!

I'm away on a family holliday so only had one evening to play on it...

The plinth is actually a standard walnut:) My phones camera is just off on the colours! Walnut is my favourite lp12-wood and the second one l've had.

Have to ask Anders about the dampening, it hasen't come up, guess he just forgott about it.

/H
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Matteo »

Good choice Henrik!

M
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by lejonklou »

That is indeed a great looking walnut LP12.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by Music Lover »

HenrikLI wrote: The plinth is actually a standard walnut:) My phones camera is just off on the colours! Walnut is my favourite lp12-wood and the second one l've had.
Sweet... it's rarely that you see such a nice walnut.
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by HenrikLI »

A quick update,

Concerning burn-in of the at95. The deck played better than the dsm right from the start, but after a relatively short settle-in it started to sound poppy and lively like… i don't know - nothing like the streamer anyway! It’s like you can’t believe an almost “free” cart can be that good (thanks Fredrik for the advice).

Funny thing is I’ve asked three sellers about some sort of point of direction about going from streaming (klimax renew exakt) to lp12 and they have all been reluctant do make a strong recommendation for vinyl. Maybe it’s just being cautious of not saying too much to influence a customer.

On a different note about the akito. It’s a demo arm, circa a year old. The anti skate-spring clearly got stock and then jumped loose when moving the arm sideways over the record area. I mentioned it to the dealer who was really helpful to come and pick up the player and then deliver it back to me with a different slightly newer demo tonearm! So, I’ve just started turn records with the new one and it plays probably nearly exactly as the first one. But there is also a slight perceptible ring of the spring in this one also. Although it seemed to disappear after a few turns on the anti skate. Is this normal? (think this newer akito is from 2018)


First evening of the summer vacation and I ain’t quitting till the securitas is banging the door

/H
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by beck »

I expect you will never let go of vinyl again. Even new digitally recorded vinyl sounds great on a well setup Sondek though the full sound of the old analog recordings are the real deal. :-)
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Re: Henrik's rig

Post by lejonklou »

HenrikLI wrote:First evening of the summer vacation and I ain’t quitting till the securitas is banging the door
It makes me happy you are enjoying vinyl so much! Indeed there's something magical about it that is very difficult to obtain with a digital source.

Your final comment reminds me of a great song from the 90's:

"Gonna take you in the room sugar lock you up in love for days
We gonna be rockin' baby, 'til the cops come knocking"
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