Azazello's system

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-25 02:47

How are the Isobariks sounding, Az?

Time for an update, don't you think?

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 2009-02-25 21:56

lejonklou wrote:Time for an update, don't you think?

I guess it is... :D

Well, the current system is:

LP12(Lingo2, Trampolin Keel, Ekos2, Adikt) - Slipsik 4 - Kikkin - 4xLK100 - Aktiv Isobarik (with Dirak).

Fredrik helped me to install the system so that it would be playable 'till new years eve. It took ridiculously long time since there was a lot of soldering involved in the process. Just look at this mess...

At first, the LP12 stood on a Corras at the somewhat sprung floor, it was possible to walk carefully in the room, but raising the volume above 60 would start an acoustic feedback in the bass, causing the LK100 to shut down. This was fixed by putting the LP12 back on is't wall shelf (managed to find a spot in the wall that I trust). They still occasionally shut down though.

The weeks that followed was very confusing, sometimes it sounded really bad sometimes really good. Much of this was probably caused by the burn-in of the Kikkin. But now I'm blown away. I sat down two days ago and listened to Leonard Cohens masterpiece "New skin for the old ceremony", and it was plain magic, I think it was one of the few moments that actually was as good as the (memory of) my first demo on a Linn system (also Leonard Cohen, also installed by Fredrik ;) ) back in 1992. This is by far the best system I've ever had, and I don't miss my 5125/Ninkas anymore.

It bugs me that I didn't get to listen to the upgrades in steps; how would my Nexus sound with the Kikkin - presumably the biggest upgrade. But regardless of that - I will never go back from full range. The Isobarik can play so loud and powerful, but still with a sense of ease and punch that I just love. And this with LK100:s, obviously the next upgrade from here. Depending on budget, I might go for 4x5105's or 2250's or possibly two 5125 (despite the advice to choose a powerful amp, since LK100:s are quite week, but still working fine).

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2009-02-25 23:29

They are monsters! That's the best looking pair I've seen (darling) - I don't like them so much in real wood, but they look very cool in black 8) And a speaker facing upwards too - is that right?

What happens at the base - looks like a dedicated stand of some kind - is that Linn amps tucked inside? hard to see.

Nice to put a face to a name as well.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-26 01:13

I look a bit weird in that picture... Maybe overwhelmed by the 10 hours of work I had in front of me. :lol:

Nice to hear they sound so good! My impression from that installation was that the bass of aktiv Isobariks is just unbelievably good. The other units don't sound as clean and precise as some modern drive units do, but the bass is in a class of its own!

I haven't compared Keltiks with aktiv Isobariks since way back in the 90's, but I've installed a bunch of Keltik systems during the last years. My impression is that while the Keltik bass is always overly dynamic and exaggerated (and needs to be tamed by the installation), the aktiv Isobarik bass has none of that punchy disco feeling of many Keltik systems and is probably more correct. I suspect the Isobarik bass is more in tune and more musically enjoyable. But as I haven't properly compared them, this is a guess.

Yes, there is a mid and a tweeter pointing upwards on the Briks. 6 units in total on each speaker; 2 KEF bass units in isobarik configuration, 2 KEF mids and 2 Hiquphon/Scanspeak tweeters.

On Azazello's Briks (in perfect condition!), there had been a clever modification done: In addition to the standard three inputs, the second bass driver had a separate pair of connectors. This allows you to run 4 channels to each speaker; one for both tweeters, one for both mids, one for inner bass and one for outer bass.

And in the original stands (a rectangular metal frame with damping blocks in the holes), the previous owner had fitted two LK-sized power amps. Might not be the optimal environment for a poweramp to sit inside that stand, but it looks really nice without four more boxes in the rack and four long runs of K400 on the floor. We never tried placing the amps outside of the stands, it sounded great with them in there.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-26 17:26

lejonklou wrote: My impression is that while the Keltik bass is always overly dynamic and exaggerated (and needs to be tamed by the installation), the aktiv Isobarik bass has none of that punchy disco feeling of many Keltik systems and is probably more correct.

Not sure I follow you.
Yes you can increase the bass volume but how do you add dynamics?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-26 18:26

Many adjustments can result in "fake dynamics". Overdamping the cabinet. An amplitude peak or the right Q value in the 100 Hz region. In electronics you can adjust the circuits for maximum punch in several ways (some probably increase the relative level of odd order harmonics in the right frequency range).

What I'm saying is that to my ears, the Keltik bass appears a bit more impressive than right. And when I hear well tuned aktiv Isobariks (which happens all too seldom these days), their bass sound more right. But I could also be wrong in this, as my experience is limited.

ThomasOK · Post by **ThomasOK** » 2009-02-26 20:48

Charlie1 wrote:They are monsters! That's the best looking pair I've seen (darling) - I don't like them so much in real wood, but they look very cool in black 8) And a speaker facing upwards too - is that right?

What happens at the base - looks like a dedicated stand of some kind - is that Linn amps tucked inside? hard to see.

Nice to put a face to a name as well.

I must say that Fredrik does look a bit daunted there.

Those Isobariks look just like my pair except I still have some intact grills (although they do loose some black powder whenever I vacuum them, which I now do rarely). Those are the standard bases as well. Although my Isobariks are 1988 vintage whit the crossovers in the bottom of the speaker I do have the last stands with the panels on the front and sides. It gives the speaker a more finished look. When I was running them Aktiv I also had separate amp channels for each of the woofers - four LK280 Sparks. I sometimes wondered how they would sound if you had six amp channels per side! :) I never heard of anyone doing it but it seems like an interesting idea.

You can see how it is not that big a stretch visually to go from the Isobariks to the ATC 100s - big box on a frame stand. Although the ATCs are even bigger and need to be farther out into the room.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-27 00:30

OK, now I follow you.
Do you think Linn constructed Keltik Xover and cabinet to add some "Spark"?
Or is it just a design flaw...

lejonklou wrote: What I'm saying is that to my ears, the Keltik bass appears a bit more impressive than right. And when I hear well tuned aktiv Isobariks (which happens all too seldom these days), their bass sound more right. But I could also be wrong in this, as my experience is limited.

Agree on impressive.
Would be nice to have a top system (example KDS/KK/3*Twin) and both speakers available. Just to compare them.
Owning both, their presentation is similar yet different. Hard to explain.

What are the best systems you heard them with?

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-27 12:41

Music Lover wrote:Do you think Linn constructed Keltik Xover and cabinet to add some "Spark"?

I don't know. But I know that the guys behind Isobarik used the Tune Method. The Australian bloke who made Keltiks didn't believe in that, and he thought Linn was just one of many good HiFi companies. Not entirely promising, I must say...

Would be nice to have a top system (example KDS/KK/3*Twin) and both speakers available. Just to compare them.

I agree. Most of all I'm interested in the bass performance.

What are the best systems you heard them with?

Azazello's system is the best I've heard with aktiv Isobariks. Never heard Isobariks with a Keel'ed LP12 before.
I've heard Keltiks with higher specified LP12's (MC) and more expensive electronics. Not sure exactly which was the best.

Charlie1 · Post by **Charlie1** » 2009-02-27 13:05

Lejonklou wrote:I don't know. But I know that the guys behind Isobarik used the Tune Method. The Australian bloke who made Keltiks didn't believe in that, and he thought Linn was just one of many good HiFi companies. Not entirely promising, I must say...

So, does that mean Linn's use of the Tune Method can be entirely dependant upon the chief engineer on each project? I always though (presumed) that it was applied to all products.

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-02-27 13:46

I think that like most HiFi companies, they have a listening panel. The Aussie did complain about that panel "only accepting a particular kind of sound". :lol:

So, Linn has always applied the Tune Method. But if the chief engineer doesn't, I expect the result to be a little less in tune than if he had. I can't imagine myself working with someone who doesn't evaluate the way I do, things would take forever to develop.

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-27 17:06

What do you know about the designer of the modern Array speakers; Komri, Akurate, Artikulat etc to the most recent Majik range.
Is it same person and is he using tune dem as evaluation method?

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-02-27 17:11

lejonklou wrote:The Aussie did complain about that panel "only accepting a particular kind of sound". :lol:

Funny isn't it!

I understand that guy have an own company and believe in "source last" Quite convenient when you sell speakers :mrgreen:

Post by **lejonklou** » 2009-03-03 16:43

Music Lover wrote:What do you know about the designer of the modern Array speakers; Komri, Akurate, Artikulat etc to the most recent Majik range.
Is it same person and is he using tune dem as evaluation method?

I know much less about who works at Linn these days, it seems to have changed a lot during the last years.

But Philip Hobbs should be the man behind the Komri, Artikulate and Akurate speakers. I suspect he was also involved in the Majik 109 and 140.

I don't know him personally, but he was very nice when we met last year. He's been with Linn many years and worked at Linn Records before he got into the Komri project, so I'm quite confident he uses the Tune Method.

It's interesting that the idea behind the *K arrays on all the new Linn speakers is to resemble a point source. Quite the opposite of what is achieved with the configuration of the Isobariks!

Music Lover · Post by **Music Lover** » 2009-03-03 23:08

lejonklou wrote:Quite the opposite of what is achieved with the configuration of the Isobariks!

Quite sure the requirements regarding 3D are bigger today.
(from reviewers in the press? 8) )

But personally I don’t care about depth, height, width and "stereo image". I REALLY liked the way Isobarik spread the sound in the house.
Not very correct BUT very real!!