Olskools System and Listening Space

Share your journey!

Moderator: Staff

Post Reply
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

Olskool's System and Listening Space

Greetings all, this is my first post and I am pleased to be a part of the forum group. My sense is the group is about enjoying the music and growing in knowledge about the bits and pieces that make our "Hobby" great. The posts I've read indicate there are few axes to grind here and even fewer contentious posts. I'm happy to do my part to participate in that way as well.

I'm a US resident near Dallas, TX., in my early 60's and have been a fan of good music since my early days at around 8 years old or so. I can remember one of my relatives showing me his vinyl record collection although it didn't mean much to me then. Always intrigued by electronics and music, at around 13 or 14 years of age I purchased my first music system, a portable 8 track player. My first tape (and only one for quite a while) was Wes Montgomery's "A Day in the Life". Somewhat proof I've been a jazz fan most of my musical life. I have 4 children and 5 grandchildren but it is just me and my lady living in our house so I get to listen as the much as I want, usually two to four times a week.

My system: I've always had a stereo system since my days in the Navy where I purchased an integrated amp (can't confirm which, I think it was Marantz), a Reel to Reel, a Turn Table, and floor standing speakers (again not sure which but it all sounded good back then). I've had a system almost continually since, with exception of a 10 year period where it was only associated with surround sound TV and no vinyl replay. Lucky enough to store most of my albums correctly, which I began collecting in the 70's (hence the Olskool handle). Surprisingly they survived a bit of a party life in really good shape with few scratches and oops's. Rebuilding my Two channel system with vinyl replay began about 7 years ago when moving into the house I live in now. A TV tuning specialist came to tune a TV just purchased. He told me he was an audiophile so I asked him to take a listen to the two channel system built from the Surround TV system, Definitive 400 Pro Powered Towers, Yamaha RSV-2095 AMP and had it set up in my listening area. He sat patiently and listend as I proudly played some music for him. He proceeded to tell me it had a long way to go to get to a reasonable audiophile level. He showed me a few things like: electronic shop basic cables with no terminations was not going to give me great sounds. He suggested some isolation and was the first time I ever heard of Vibra Pods. He mentioned things like voicing speakers, etc. Thoroughly intrigued (and a little crushed) I followed his suggestion and looked up Audiophile Tweaks. From that time on I was determined to build my system up. So here 7 years later is the end result of that time.

It is based on:
An Audio Research Tube Based system beginning with an ARC VS-115 w/KT120's, ARC Ref5-SE Line Pre, ARC Ref2 Phono Stage,
An NAD M5 CD-SACD player,
A Pioneer RT707 Reel to Reel,
and the heart of my system a Linn LP12 now close to full spec: It has Lyra Delos cart, EKOS1, Kore 3, Trampoline 2 (latest ?), Radikal (the latest edition to the table), arguably one of the better purchases I've made for the TT was a BooPlinth (worthy of its own discussion thread) all of this finished off with an HRS table.
Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Grand Speakers
Nordost Cable Loom: Red Dawn speaker cable, Frey2 XLR interconnects, Tyr 1 and 2 XLR Interconnects, Frey A/C cables.
Nordost QB4 distribution,
StilPoints Isolation for all components including speakers except TT
Dedicated 10 AMP Shunyatta power plugs on dedicated ground.
ASC Tube Traps.

I'm really pleased with the system overall, but taking the TT to the level I have has revealed the warts of my listening space and that is my next objective to dial the room in fully and correctly. I am a loyal Linn TT fan now and love the combination of system components overall. When the next upgrade happens it will be after more room correction and will most likely be speakers (Not sure which, but heard a good demo of the Wilson Sophia), or it may be amplification (Ref150 or 150 SE).

I'm looking forward to participating here on Lejonklu. I tried posting pics but it says the files are too big. If I can figure a way to lower photo resolution I will post. Thanks

Olskool (Larry)
jlwdm
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2014-05-19 02:24
Location: US

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by jlwdm »

Welcome Olskool,

It sounds like you have had a lot of fun creating and improving your system - as well as listening to the system.

I live in the DFW area also.

Jeff
David Neel
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 975
Joined: 2008-02-08 23:17
Location: The Magical Forest

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by David Neel »

Welcome to the forum, Olskool. That's an interesting system you've put together, and I'd love to hear it. Very unlikely, as I'm in the UK! It'd be interesting to hear how you became an LP12 owner, did that happen before or after the ARCs?
And as another booplinth owner, there is already a thread for this - look at the On The Inside forum http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2793
The search for knowledge is not nourished by certainty, but by a radical distrust in certainty
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

Hi Jeff, I have absolutely had a great journey thus far! Music still remains the main driver but I love the magic of electronics, the nature of the hobby and the people I've met who love it too. It would be great to get together with you to compare notes on Linn, music and equipment.

Larry
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

David Neel wrote:Welcome to the forum, Olskool. That's an interesting system you've put together, and I'd love to hear it. Very unlikely, as I'm in the UK! It'd be interesting to hear how you became an LP12 owner, did that happen before or after the ARCs?
And as another booplinth owner, there is already a thread for this - look at the On The Inside forum http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2793

Hi David, thanks for the reply. Yes, the ARC path started before getting the Linn TT. I have always been a tube fan since during my time in the military working on tube based electronics. This experience led to my first dedicated two channel amp the ARC VS115, another solid performance gain in terms of tonal balance, warmth, and detail. The rest of the ARC Reference items; Line and Phono Pre were added before and after the Linn. The pairing of Linn and ARC is a nice fit overall.

My first TT, since re-building a two channel system, was a Project Debut III TT with the surround amp and speakers owned from years before. It was upgraded to a Project Perspex 6 TT and was a huge jump in performance. The Project Perspex 6 TT really seemed to get to a new level as well. I really started working on tweaks and cabling and isolation which pulled things further in focus, however I noted increased noise floor and inner groove background noise from the TT. One of my Audiophile friends was always talking about his full spec Linn and I heard it once but never could see myself spending that much money for a single component. It also did not help that my dealer is a longtime, well regarded Linn sales and service provider so anytime visiting their shop I would see and hear them playing demo's etc., but still had no plans to go to Linn. It was decided that I would upgrade my cartridge for the Perspex TT to get more performance improvement and went by the shop to hear a demo of a couple Lyra Carts and decided to place an order for a Delos.

Its true that if you keep hanging around in the barber shop you will eventually get a haircut! While leaving the shop after placing the cart order I noted on the trade and demo sale table a Linn TT and started asking questions. It was a Linn Majik basic with Adikt cart, demo of theirs that had just been tuned and adjusted then put on the sale table. Well, that darned thing followed me home! The very real enthusiasm out of the sales staff for the Linn product and particularly the TT pushed me over. I was skeptical at first because the basic TT and Adikt cart, did not provide the extended bass or the headroom of the Perspex and I really had learned to look for that in my music. Further, being somewhat impulsive and impatient did not put me in the mind to have to wait forever, or to go through the upgrade process to get the Linn to its full potential.

The first few weeks of listening did start working majic on me but it set off a craving to get more, sooner, which I knew was just under the surface of the Linn waiting to be released. My first upgrade was a Kore and was a notable improvement installed at the same time the Delos arrived. The combined improvement in performance was huge and immediate. It was still not where I wanted to be so next, a few months later came a new Lingo III where things really came up in quality and operated at a level I wondered how it could get any better. Every Linnie who heard me ask that said it is possible and made substantial improvements to upgrade from that point up. Next was an Ekos 1 my dealer took in trade and serviced then notified me they had it (damned barbershop!). It was as if it hit an afterburner the performance was so astounding! During this time articles started appearing about the BooPlinth. Roy Gregory, had presented on other subject matter at RMAF one year that I attended. I felt I could trust him because of that meeting and hearing him at RMAF. He wrote a compelling and good report on the BooPlinth. This started me to investigate and read more. One of my dealer's other clients ordered and received one that I heard a demo on and finally placed the order. It arrived and it was not an afterburner level change but an Airene Booster rocket launch increase in performance to my ears. Nearing the end of my financial sanity but fully immersed in nirvana, my last move was to trade the Lingo for a new Radikal which was ordered about two months after the BooPlinth. This was a tough move to make because after the BooPlinth, I would have been perfectly happy to stop right where I was. Some of you can understand the madness that caused me to move to the next level! The trade was made and the Radikal came home. This transition from Linn Majik to Radikal BooPlinth Linn took just about 1 year to complete the trip. It was all so good but I still heard a little smearing and was alearted that the table my equipment sat on was too mass loaded. That brought about the HRS table the TT now sits on. There is no further compulsion to improve the TT.

It is an amazing feeling to own and get to listen to one of the most highly regarded audiophile Turn Tables in the world! That is how I got to be a "Proud Linnie!"

Larry
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by lejonklou »

Hi Larry/Olskool and welcome here!

Glad to hear you enjoy your LP12! I'd like to hear your system as it stands right now.

I must confess to being very sceptical about the expensive cabling and mechanical isolators you mention. I have mainly found them adding strange noise that appears to work only when partnered with electronics that have an opposite character. But the problems never cancel out, they merely hide one another.

Forgive me the bluntness, but I'm a strong advocate of source first (e.g. the LP12!), simple and sound engineering and an undivided attention to detail.

Are you using the supplied mains cable for the LP12? Have you tried connecting it to a plain and cheap distribution block without any filtering etc?

Images need to be stored elsewhere, BTW. Then you link to that external address in your message here.
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

lejonklou wrote:Hi Larry/Olskool and welcome here!

Glad to hear you enjoy your LP12! I'd like to hear your system as it stands right now.

I must confess to being very sceptical about the expensive cabling and mechanical isolators you mention. I have mainly found them adding strange noise that appears to work only when partnered with electronics that have an opposite character. But the problems never cancel out, they merely hide one another.

Forgive me the bluntness, but I'm a strong advocate of source first (e.g. the LP12!), simple and sound engineering and an undivided attention to detail.

Are you using the supplied mains cable for the LP12? Have you tried connecting it to a plain and cheap distribution block without any filtering etc?

Images need to be stored elsewhere, BTW. Then you link to that external address in your message here.

Hello lejonklou,

Thank you for your reply and input. Well, honestly, I was not expecting your repsonse but I appreciate the commitment to the purity and quality of the music. Much has been said about sensitivity of the LP12 to issues like mass loading for example. There have also been quite a few source improvements to help such as the Trampoline for example. So many LP12 upgrades that I can't keep up and am glad my table is a little newer. The point to this is to say I felt I was cleaning up the environment to allow the LP12 and its resources to be their best, not to try to shape the sound. The sound isolation devices came along well before the LP12, other than the HRS table for example.

I relish the value of forums to share knowledge and experiences with much learned that I did not know, so your input is welcome. It would be great to have you visit to hear my system and perhaps help me improve what I have. I know little and want to learn, particularly if I can do so without increased expense in cables and other peripherals.

I use a Nordost a/c power cable for the Radikal and it is run into the QB4 power distributor. The original phono cable that came with the Ekos1 is still in place. Should they not be used in this way? I'm enjoying listening as I write this and am thinking that if this gets better how truly impressed I will be, but I dont doubt there can be more improvement. I'm keen to learn what I don't know so keep the input coming.
Thanks, Olskool
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by lejonklou »

Olskool,

I love and share your attitude. There's so much to learn!

OK, first thing I'd try is to compare your current power cable with the one that Linn supplied with the Radikal. Or the one I supply with my amplifiers in North America. And put that first, closest to the incoming mains, in your distribution block.

Second thing I'd try is comparing the QB4 distribution blocks with the ones that Thomas O'Keefe has found to be the best North American solution. And the whole system should preferably be daisy chained from one point, power wise, unless there is an excessive power consumption from all the units combined, in which case one needs to split the power amps to their own parallel block.

The power cords I (and Linn) supply are inexpensive standard cords which have been selected by ear from many. And the best North American distribution blocks are likely quite inexpensive as well. I am not up to date with which model is now considered to be the best, because my distributor keeps track of that. And that's Thomas O'Keefe at Nokturne Audio.

Send him an email or give him a call. I'm sure he'll help you try this.

If my suggestions work, you'll have a better system and some items to sell. If they don't work, the parts will not have costed you much.
Ozzzy189
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 702
Joined: 2011-08-30 18:49
Location: North Lincolnshire -UK.
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Hi larry,
welcome to the forum.
I used to have a pretty extensive collection of expensive mains cables and mains blocks. Since I got into the 'Freddie ethos' with a lot of input and help from Chris at HiddenSystems , I've had a clear out. Out has gone the russ Andrews mains block and powercords and in came a cheap extension and re-introduction of the original leads as recommended by the aforementioned fellas.
This gave my system a greater togetherness and less of a brittle sound that some might say is more revealing, when all it really was, was 'glassy' and 'shouty'.
I have kept a russ Andrews classic powercord for my ads1 as I don't have the original to hand, it's an impostor !
I would echo the suggestions Fredrik has made, and as he mentioned it's a very small outlay should you decide to sell it all. If you prefer it, then you have some selling to do to maybe fund and upgrade elsewhere ! Good luck and happy listening.
Ozzzy
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

Thank you Ozzy. I must admit this is an unexpected set of commentary! Usually it is about someone telling me I have to spend thousands to get a great sound, then I land here and people are suggesting the good stuff is holding back quality listening. Now I have to go find the Power cable that came with the Radikal, hmmm now what did I do with it??? Did I also understand to not plug it in to the distribution block (QB4), and go straight to the wall power outlet? Do I plug into the primary house line or just go to the dedicated 12 amp wall source when I bypass the distribution block? Also, do these suggestions cover the mains cables for the other main components in the system; Ref2, Ref5SE, CD/SACD player?

Olskool
Ozzzy189
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 702
Joined: 2011-08-30 18:49
Location: North Lincolnshire -UK.
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Original mains leads on all the components, into the mains block Fredrik recommended in order nearest to the mains lead that goes into the mains socket, sources , pre amplifier, power amplifier. If you haven't enough sockets maybe try your sources on a separate mains extension into the same socket, hopefully it's a double socket! I'm reasonably sure that's what was recommended anyway! Perhaps Fredrik himself will clarify? Anyway, as a lot of people have or had a mix of Linn and Lejonklou, the power supply cords were pretty much tried tested and well known, so perhaps your original mains cords are a little bit of an unknown quantity?
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Charlie1 »

Here's a great example of why we feel it's important to use the correct Linn/Lejonklou mains lead:
http://www.lejonklou.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=237

And if you want the short version, Hugo started the thread cos he couldn't hear any difference between his new KDS and existing Unidisk. It was narrowed down by members to the KK and then he posted his findings:
I had my Klimax Kontrol checked by my dealer and he did not find any fault in it, it sounded perfect (compared with his KK). So I had to check anything that was left and found the issue in the power cable.

The power cable I used with my KK was a "non-Linn" standard cable that had the Linn-standard ICE-plug and cable but a different power plug. I must have messed up the cable as I changed my TV set months ago. Now with the Linn power cable my KK sounds much better again - and you can clearly hear the difference between DS and 1.1!

So leassons learned:
(1) Do only use Linn cables or plugs (or others that you have very carefully tested).
(2) Do not underestimate the importance of even the smallest parts of a Linn system - they can significantly decrease the overall performance.
(3) Do not mess cables up ...
User avatar
ThomasOK
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4358
Joined: 2007-02-02 18:41
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by ThomasOK »

Olskool wrote:Thank you Ozzy. I must admit this is an unexpected set of commentary! Usually it is about someone telling me I have to spend thousands to get a great sound, then I land here and people are suggesting the good stuff is holding back quality listening. Now I have to go find the Power cable that came with the Radikal, hmmm now what did I do with it??? Did I also understand to not plug it in to the distribution block (QB4), and go straight to the wall power outlet? Do I plug into the primary house line or just go to the dedicated 12 amp wall source when I bypass the distribution block? Also, do these suggestions cover the mains cables for the other main components in the system; Ref2, Ref5SE, CD/SACD player?

Olskool
OK, first off I have not yet had the opportunity to compare the CablePro with the Nordost QB4. I should note for the education of others here that the Nordost QB4 is not a line conditioner nor a surge suppressor. It is a distribution block with one difference. Nordost feels that grounding plays a big part in the sound of the system and that the ground should be through the preamp as this is where everything meets. So in the QB4 and QB8 they have an outlet marked for the preamp (or integrated amp) and all the other outlets have a half ohm resistance in series with their grounds. The idea is to force the grounds through the preamp. As mentioned I haven't listened to one so I can't comment on the validity of their theory or quality of their application. However, the idea might have some merit as Fredrik has found, and I have verified, that the most musical order to plug components into a good power strip is preamp(s) first, then sources, then amplifiers. So this may tie in with their theory. I hope to audition a QB4 at some point but have lots on my plate right now with this new speaker stuff.

Secondly, while we know from experience that the power cables Lejonklou and Linn supply are very musical having been chosen for that quality, we don't really know the musical quality of the Audio Research cables. They might be really good but they might not. As an example of this I didn't use the ATC power cables when I was running the ATCs with their built-in amp/crossover packs because the Linn cables were superior. I also use a Linn power cable going into my CablePro Revelation power strip for the same reason. So the first suggestion would be to replace the cable going to the Radikal with the original Linn one and see what you hear. Then also try plugging it directly into the wall to see if it is more or less musical than through the QB4. When doing this I would recommend the dedicated circuit as this has proven to be a better way in my experience. But while you're at it you might as well go back to the original Audio Research cables and see how they are. If you search the forum you will find a thread where I compared a number of different cables to find the most musical sounding.

Once you've tried this get back with us and let us know what you hear.
The LP12 Whisperer
Manufacturer, Distributor, Retailer and above all lover of music.
Ozzzy189
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 702
Joined: 2011-08-30 18:49
Location: North Lincolnshire -UK.
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Ozzzy189 »

Thanks for the explanation and sharing of your knowledge and experience Thomas. I thought the source was either first on the strip or on another altogether,so I stand corrected. I shall try this myself tonight or tomorrow.
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
User avatar
lejonklou
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 6524
Joined: 2007-01-30 10:38
Location: Sweden
Contact:

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by lejonklou »

There are two good orders in which your components can be connected to the mains distribution block:

(from incoming mains to furthest away)
Preamp - source - power amp
Source - preamp - power amp

I find that the first one is usually superior. But there have also been a few cases where I've felt that the source(s) should be first. I am not sure why. And as many of the components in Olskool's system are not very familiar to me, I thought it might be a safer bet placing the Radikal first in the mains order.

Furthermore, I find that the plugs of all the mains cables should preferably sit close to one another and in series. Preferably in the same block. If there's not enough free positions, a second block can be added to the last position of the first block. Less important sources and power amps can be connected to the second block. The cables on these blocks should be as short as possible, but normally cutting the standard cord down is a mistake. Of the best sounding models (which are often cheap plastic blocks in my experience), pick the one with the shortest cord.
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Charlie1 »

lejonklou wrote:(from incoming mains to furthest away)
Preamp - source - power amp
Source - preamp - power amp
I decided to revisit this but it was inconclusive. I think preamp (Kikkin) first is better HiFi but my musical preference varied between tunedems. I always wonder what impact starting up the Radikal is having. Could a few seconds more spinning tip the balance? - I do wait for the light to drop down in brightness.

I've left it playing 'The Pretender' with preamp first and my suspicion is that it's not performing as well musically as it was before the test (when it was Radikal first).
Charlie1
Very active member
Very active member
Posts: 4831
Joined: 2007-12-11 00:30
Location: UK

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Charlie1 »

I've changed it back. It wasn't happening for me :)
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

Thank you Thomas and everyone. I have located the Original Linn Cable the Radikal came with and will make the Tunedem tests varying the order while using the orignal mains cable tonight. To begin with I will leave everything as it currently stands and play music for 30 to 45 minutes or so, then will begin tests once the sytem is up to operating temp. I'll let you know my results later.

Larry
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

I'm in the middle of listening Tunedems and believe it will take a little time to be conclusive about what is being heard. The session started with Radikal in first position then Line Pre in 2nd (Primary Earth Ground) as called for in the QB4 manual. This was followed by the Phono Pre in 3rd, then main amp in 4th. The Nordost Blue Heaven mains cable was supplying the Radikal at this time as well. This is the arrangement being used before beginning this thread. It sounded good to me as usual.

Next was to remove the Blue Heaven and add the Linn supplied cable to the Radikal. This immediately sounded thin and seemed to take a step back in SQ. I listened through a complete album side and thin was the impression throughout the side.

Next in the Tunedem, the current setup, is the Radikal (with the Linn factory supplied mains) positioned 2nd in the Primary Earth spot after the Line Pre at the start of the order in the QB4. This is followed by the Phono Pre then by Main Amp at the rear of the chain. The more I listen and give the cables time to settle in the more my sense is the setup is in fact more musical. At next listen session I'll switch back to the Nordost mains cable on the Radikal but with everything in its current order to see what the difference is. This current setting does feel more tuneful overall at the moment.

Larry
Olskool
New member
New member
Posts: 9
Joined: 2016-01-11 20:49

Re: Olskools System and Listening Space

Post by Olskool »

In follow up to my last post using Linn factory supplied power cable vs. Nordost Blue Heaven Power cable on the Radikal and QB4 distribution block. I reverted back to the Linn cable and changed the order of cable plug-ins on the QB4, making the Pre-Amp first in line on the distibution block and the Radikal next with the power amp in earth ground. After two days of listening to this arrangement I reverted and exchanged the Linn cable for the Nordost in position of the Linn and there was no contest, the Nordost cable was superior by far! It was a more forward image, a little better detailed, lively and somewhat brighter, but not at all "shouty" as suggested earlier. The best description I can render is the sound had more "sparkle!" The next effort will be to run the Radikal power cable directly into the wall power outlet by-passing the distribution block. I will alternate the Linn cable for the Nordost after listening a couple days and report on that finding. I will report later.

Olskool
Post Reply