A token...

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tokenbrit
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A token...

Post by tokenbrit »

My interest in hi-fi started with my father - his passion was for classical primarily, with some jazz for good measure, so I grew up appreciating musicianship & performance with a curiosity for the electronics that reproduced the music. My dad didn't necessarily appreciate my curiosity though when I had to admit to 'breaking' his Revox reel-to-reel by pressing all the buttons down at once; there being no way to release them...

My own system started in the UK with a mix of budget oriented components - I couldn't afford Linn at the time, but we lived near a good Linn dealer who had supplied my dad's LP12 and who, over time, had the patience & kindness to demonstrate what I might trade up to some day, demonstrating how wonderful my NAD floorstanders could sound when fed by CD12; Kairn, & Klouts.

The LP12 was handed down to me a while before I moved to the US - the Sondek & the speakers were the only components to travel with me. The electronics weren't worth bringing over, and weren't international voltage, so it was time to start over. Not being sure how long I'd be in the States, I bought a Denon receiver - it didn't sound bad & I had an idea to go multi-channel for home theater.

A few years of distraction with center, surround, and sub, before getting back to improving stereo performance: an ex-dem AV5105 & my first Linn purchase. The 5105 was a huge improvement over the Denon's internal amplification. This was fun, and was the real beginning...

A Chakra 2200 was the next ex-dem purchase – another improvement, but not huge: cleaner & more detailed than the 5105; maybe not as engaging. I seem to recall the 5105 retained something of the Klout; the 2200 was to start down a new path...

Further steps involved AK/0, ADS/0d, and dynamik power supplies for 2200 and Kontrol as well as K400 to replace NACA5 - now it felt like the NAD floorstanders were hindering progress. Enter Spendors: S5e floorstanders and a C9; exit sub - the surrounds were left out when the Denon was replaced by the AK/0

Still thinking in terms of multi-channel, home theater, an Akurate 4200 was an opportunistic addition, but also an opportunity to indulge in a detour that would result in a change of direction... I now had a 2200 for the center, and a 4200 for stereo L/R. I had been bi-wiring with the K400; now I could bi-amp. I will excuse myself at this point: I was not familiar with tune-dem and switching from bi-wired to bi-amped is not a quick switch. Bi-amping sounded 'bigger'; that means better, right? (hold your answer)

A Klimax Renew DS found its way into the system which resulted in much more stereo listening, with the center channel & 2200 getting less & less play-time, but it still wasn't as compelling as I felt it could be or should be... Tom had been taking care of my LP12, progressively fitting an arm, cart, Cirkus into a Harban plinth on a Tramp. In one of the visits to Ann Arbor, Tom also tweaked the 4200 - this was a nice improvement, still bi-amped... The stage was set.

Was it time for a new cast? After a few months with the tuned 4200, I got a call from Tom, and the offer of a weekend with a Tundra Stereo - this should be interesting. To make it 'fair' I compared 4200 in 2-channel mode, not bi-amped, and in 'K200 mode' not bi-wired. To answer the earlier question, 'bigger' was not better, and the 4200 lost out to the Tundra too – not night & day; the Tundra Stereo was just more musical. What could be better?

Was it time for the next act? After a few months with the Tundra Stereo, I got a call from Tom, and the offer of a pair of Tundra Monos. This was a straight swap and, again, the difference was not night & day, but the Monos were more musical again. The Stereo will be used for the center channel – I haven't given up completely on multi-channel.

So what's next? Well somewhere between Stereo & Monos, the Spendors grew from S5e to S8e, but the biggest change is waiting in the wings: the Sagatun Monos are almost here; soon to be ready to take the stage, after a warm-up of course, accompanied by some 2.48m K200 and a tuned KRDS – curtain up :)
Last edited by tokenbrit on 2014-09-04 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
sunbeamgls
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Post by sunbeamgls »

Thanks for sharing your story
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Post by moog_man »

Nicely written, TkB - we look forward to your updates as the system evolves.

Agree with you about the 4200. A couple weeks ago, whilst I was having internal Keilidh Activ cards removed to drive the replacement 212s in passive, I swapped in an old LK-100. When I exchanged it back to the now-passive 4200 and plugged in the K-200s that Fredrik has impeccably prepared, the improvement was marginal. Perhaps a bit more air, openness, a little faster - but certainly not a huge difference. Amazed.
And, this has also set me on the path towards auditioning Tundra/ monos.
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A move and a challenge

Post by tokenbrit »

My system went through a few updates since I posted above - Sagatun Monos came in to accompany Tundra Monos, and they were joined by a KRDS/1, replacing the /0. The LP12 got Lingo'd and there's a Pekin in the mix too... (plenty rack space needed) The S8e Spendors weren't a significant improvement over the 5s, to my ears. This maybe / likely because I never felt like I had them positioned correctly, especially after the Tundra Monos were upgraded to 2.0, but that's another story...

Both (all 4) Sagatun & Tundra Monos are awaiting a Spring trip to Tom in Ann Arbor (unless he is planning a visit to the NYC area any time soon, of course :) The upgrades have been on hold as we moved from the Midwest late last year: we are settling in to a new home, and it seems I wasn't quick enough claiming space for the hi-fi in any of the main rooms, so I am relegated to the basement. Luckily it is finished ;) I am hoping that the carpeted solid floor in the basement will be better musically than the suspended hardwood floors upstairs, and that downstairs is an upgrade...

This house has baseboard heat and my Spendor speakers have a low rear port... Is the output from a rear speaker port meant to reflect into the room, or is it meant to diffuse & disperse rather than reinforce the forward facing output from speakers? If it is intended to reflect then I should be looking for a wall without the heating along the baseboards, most probably... Suggestions appreciated.

Please don't suggest JBLs just yet. They are due to be auditioned again on next visit to Michigan but, for the foreseeable, I'll be using the Spendor S5e speakers with which I started this thread. We knew we were going to be downsizing homes when we moved to the East Coast so the 8s were sold late last year - the 5s being easier to accommodate - that's assuming the rear ports & baseboard heat play nice together, otherwise it's 'Hobson's choice' as to where the system will go with only 1 wall in the basement without heating elements along the baseboards.

And no suggestions on Space, or Exakt, thanks ;)
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Re: A token...

Post by sunbeamgls »

What were the tweaks to the A4200 you mentioned please tokenbrit? Was it the board, case and earthing torquing or something else?

Thanks
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Re: A token...

Post by tokenbrit »

sunbeamgls wrote:What were the tweaks to the A4200 you mentioned please tokenbrit? Was it the board, case and earthing torquing or something else?

Thanks
Torque was part of it but there was also attention to internal cabling. I take it you are aware of the discussions of internal links vs external interconnects if you are using your A4200 for bi-amping, and the fact that not all channels are created equal? It was a long time ago now - I don't recall all the details. There should be threads on the Linn forum to give you an idea.
TBH, that was the first strike against Linn, that such tuning was on top of the purchase price and was dealer dependent to get the best out of the electronics. Fredrick's attention to detail & level of quality control means I don't have to worry about such tweaks so haven't thought about them to recall what was involved in getting the best from the 4200 - it was unnecessary after the Tundra Stereo beat it :)
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Re: A move and a challenge

Post by lejonklou »

tokenbrit wrote:This house has baseboard heat and my Spendor speakers have a low rear port... Is the output from a rear speaker port meant to reflect into the room, or is it meant to diffuse & disperse rather than reinforce the forward facing output from speakers? If it is intended to reflect then I should be looking for a wall without the heating along the baseboards, most probably... Suggestions appreciated.
Hi tokenbrit!

Sorry for the late reply! Regarding the port of a bass reflex speaker, the frequencies it emits are (if properly filtered) so low in frequency that they spread in all directions. The distances from the rear wall, the side walls and between the two ports are crucial, but there is very little directionality involved. That means, from the end of the port, the pressure waves spread in all directions and the surface behind them is of less concern than the above mentioned distances.

That said, there are also usually higher frequencies emitting (or escaping) from the rear port and those are more directional and more affected by the surfaces behind the speaker. So while the positioning is more important, the surfaces will still always matter.
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Re: A move and a challenge

Post by sunbeamgls »

lejonklou wrote:
tokenbrit wrote:This house has baseboard heat and my Spendor speakers have a low rear port... Is the output from a rear speaker port meant to reflect into the room, or is it meant to diffuse & disperse rather than reinforce the forward facing output from speakers? If it is intended to reflect then I should be looking for a wall without the heating along the baseboards, most probably... Suggestions appreciated.
Hi tokenbrit!

Sorry for the late reply! Regarding the port of a bass reflex speaker, the frequencies it emits are (if properly filtered) so low in frequency that they spread in all directions. The distances from the rear wall, the side walls and between the two ports are crucial, but there is very little directionality involved. That means, from the end of the port, the pressure waves spread in all directions and the surface behind them is of less concern than the above mentioned distances.

That said, there are also usually higher frequencies emitting (or escaping) from the rear port and those are more directional and more affected by the surfaces behind the speaker. So while the positioning is more important, the surfaces will still always matter.
Fredrik, by "properly filtered" I guess you're referring not only to port length, diameter, position in the box etc., but also to some kind of mid-range filter such as a 90 degree bend? If the speaker doesn't have this (my VFM Mission 773e, for example, doesn't have this, but the Katans do), then mid-range stuff leaking out of the port could lead to smearing of non-bass stuff such as vocals?
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Re: A token...

Post by lejonklou »

Yes, I meant filtering as e.g. in the Katans. They don't have any 90 degree bend, which I doubt is helpful to this cause but rather a practical way of making a port longer, but a filtered cage in which the port is placed.

Lots of other factors can contribute, as the positioning of the port and the damping of the cabinet, etc.
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Re: A token...

Post by sunbeamgls »

lejonklou wrote:Yes, I meant filtering as e.g. in the Katans. They don't have any 90 degree bend, which I doubt is helpful to this cause but rather a practical way of making a port longer, but a filtered cage in which the port is placed.

Lots of other factors can contribute, as the positioning of the port and the damping of the cabinet, etc.
Thanks Fredrik - the Katans do, effectively, have a 90 degree bend in the porting, as far as I can see. The port fires out the back of the cabinet, but the opening of the port inside the cabinet is only accessible from each "side" through the felt entrance areas - a wave travelling back to front inside the cabinet can't get to the port directly. Is that not essentially the same thing as a 90 degree bend?
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Re: A token...

Post by lejonklou »

Aha! I was probably thinking of the Tukan port, which I recall was enclosed in a filtered box.

But the port of Katan is filtered too, right? That the openings are sideways will probably shorten the effective length. I don't know of any other advantage than dealing with space constraints.

But maybe a real speaker designer can chime in and enlighten us?
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Re: A token...

Post by sunbeamgls »

lejonklou wrote:Aha! I was probably thinking of the Tukan port, which I recall was enclosed in a filtered box.

But the port of Katan is filtered too, right? That the openings are sideways will probably shorten the effective length. I don't know of any other advantage than dealing with space constraints.

But maybe a real speaker designer can chime in and enlighten us?
Yes, they're filtered by the felt over each of the side facing entrances I mentioned.
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Token Update

Post by tokenbrit »

A little over 7 years since I posted here: I probably owe an update:

Brief summary of current system: Hakai-ish*, SMs, TMs, 3677s (there's a Linto, Lingo, LP12 too that needs to be reconnected ;)

* Debian Buster with MPD 21.11, upmpdcli & Spotifyd - this sounded better than Volumio to my ears...

Now on to the latest:
Prompted by Fredrik's revised network component recommendations, I have spent some time reorganising my network... (still with Hakai for now to prove the network with a known streamer - change one thing at a time; maybe two ;)

The Hakai used to share the 108T with the NAS, then a 25' Blue Jeans cable connected the switch to the whole-house router... (the 108T was also daisy-chained to another switch connecting a wired (desktop) control point)

Given Fredrik's comments about WiFI & Apple TV, I decided to separate the Hakai completely from the rest of the wired network by using an Airport Express as a WiFi-to-Ethernet device. At the moment the Hakai is plugged straight into the AE, but I will test later with the 108T between them. After that I'll take the AE out and wire the 108T & Hakai only to the whole-house router, with other wired devices on a separate switch...

If Hakai doesn't show up the differences, I have another streamer lined up to test & optimise the network ;) I'll share the results over the holiday season either in this thread, maybe as clips in the HiFi playground thread, or under the General Discussion thread, if appropriate.

Happy holidays :)
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Re: A token...

Post by markiteight »

I'm curious to know more about your current network setup. Are you now using the Airport Express to stream to HAKI from something like Quoboz/Spotify/etc. rather than using a local NAS? If so do you find that an improvement over the LS-NAS?
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Token NAS time

Post by tokenbrit »

markiteight wrote: 2021-11-21 04:51 I'm curious to know more about your current network setup. Are you now using the Airport Express to stream to HAKI from something like Quoboz/Spotify/etc. rather than using a local NAS? If so do you find that an improvement over the LS-NAS?
I’ve been using the Spotify app on Android & Windows, or the web player… I only just added the AE as part of a network cabling tidy up. The AE was configured to connect to my existing network, wirelessly, configured with a static IP address and Airplay disabled. I select the Hakai as the target in any instance of Spotify app or web player - Hakai Spotify daemon and Spotify work it out from there…

In all honesty I have not critically compared NAS vs Spotify with Hakai. I was going to rerip my CDs in ALAC but didn’t get round to building a new desktop yet on which I could install iTunes, so my newer LSNAS library is limited, whereas the Spotify library is vast. There’s not much that I might have on the old NAS, in some format or another, that I couldn’t find on Spotify, and the convenience of discovery with Spotify means I don’t find myself powering on the NAS, or prioritizing ripping & library curation over just enjoying a wider range of music on Spotify. Alternatively I stream internet radio to the Hakai. Either way the NAS doesn’t get much playing time at the moment… I guess that makes me an ideal candidate for one of the new streamers I’ve been hearing about ;)
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Re: A token...

Post by ThomasOK »

Such a tease...
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Re: A token...

Post by tokenbrit »

ThomasOK wrote: 2021-11-23 17:37Such a tease...
Unintended - just that I've been less happy with the network side of things, and wanted to sort that with a known streamer & sound before possibly hiding a source of problems with a change of 'Source' ;)
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