Current setup
Linn KRDS
Silver IC
Lejonklou Kikkin 2.2
Black IC
Linn Klout
K200, knekt. 3m long.
Linn M109. Original stand.
Happy with the sound. But thinking of an upgrade. Do you think this is a good setup or some big drawback.
Offerdal system swe
Moderator: Staff
Some upgrade thoughts. Only afford one of these. Want A upgrade to be A signifikant Change. Want to buy used items. The black IC will be changed to silver when one pair turn up.
1 pre. KK1/ Sagatun
2 amp. KCT/ Tundra stereo
3 speaker. Klångedang T1
4 Harmonihyllan
Other thoughts? Which one Will be the best choice. Have no long plan but dont going to Change for A long While after this.
1 pre. KK1/ Sagatun
2 amp. KCT/ Tundra stereo
3 speaker. Klångedang T1
4 Harmonihyllan
Other thoughts? Which one Will be the best choice. Have no long plan but dont going to Change for A long While after this.
Hi,
If you are happy with the limitation of only one input, I would stay with the kikkin.
If you are happy with the sound of your 109 in principle I would stay with this (which is a fine speaker!)
I would expect changing the Klout to a Tundra would be a fine upgrade.
Claus
If you are happy with the limitation of only one input, I would stay with the kikkin.
If you are happy with the sound of your 109 in principle I would stay with this (which is a fine speaker!)
I would expect changing the Klout to a Tundra would be a fine upgrade.
Claus
Mostly Scotland and some Sweden
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rowlandhills
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- Location: York, UK
I'd probably try and get a comparison of Kikkin to KK (should be easy to do in a dealer if you take your Kikkin in) and also Klout to KCT. That should help you decide whether your pre or power amp is the weaker link.
If you don't need the full 3m length, the conclusion on here is that exactly 2.48m speaker cables sound best, so that might be a very cheap upgrade by trimming down and reterminating your current 3m cables.
If you don't need the full 3m length, the conclusion on here is that exactly 2.48m speaker cables sound best, so that might be a very cheap upgrade by trimming down and reterminating your current 3m cables.
KRDSM, Tundra to 242s
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
Silvers, K400, Hutter rack
I have compared a early version of Sagatun to my Kikkin in a system similar to yours (but with ADS/0/D and Tundra monos). Sagatun KILLED Kikkin! It took me days to get used to the Kikkin again. Everyone I trust with a solid judgment (Basically Erik, Music Lover and Linnofil) has preferred the Sagatun over the latest version of KK, so for me that would be an easy call.
Of course there are several options to upgrade the Klout as well (2250, 2200/D or Tundra wold be my options, depending on budget), but start with the Sagatun.
Depending on the stand you are using today you might want to pick up something like a audiotech if you can find it and can stand the look of it.
And don't forget the NAS! what are you using today? Personally i would LOVE to find the time to build a LSNAS, but so far no luck...
Stay with the 109's until you are totally happy with the rest.
Of course there are several options to upgrade the Klout as well (2250, 2200/D or Tundra wold be my options, depending on budget), but start with the Sagatun.
Depending on the stand you are using today you might want to pick up something like a audiotech if you can find it and can stand the look of it.
And don't forget the NAS! what are you using today? Personally i would LOVE to find the time to build a LSNAS, but so far no luck...
Stay with the 109's until you are totally happy with the rest.
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Spannko
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- Joined: 2008-01-24 21:46
- Location: North East of The Black Country, UK
I'd second all the replies so far.
Also, from my experience, I'd suggest you ensure your main power supply, component power supplies, network system and equipment supports are all the best they can be before making any changes to the main system.
Thomas has done an excellent job of summarising how to get the best out of your DS - it's well worth a read.
Optimising your network component power supplies is a bit more difficult. It's a matter of trial and error until you find an improvement. Don't be guided by anything other than the Tune Method! For example don't assume that a linear supply is going to be better than a SMPS, or that a SMPS will be better than a linear supply, or that just because one linear supply sounds better than one SMPS, it'll always be the case. There are no reliable patterns!
Don't forget the support - it's critical to ensuring a good performance.
Good luck, and most of all, enjoy the journey - it's great fun!
Also, from my experience, I'd suggest you ensure your main power supply, component power supplies, network system and equipment supports are all the best they can be before making any changes to the main system.
Thomas has done an excellent job of summarising how to get the best out of your DS - it's well worth a read.
Optimising your network component power supplies is a bit more difficult. It's a matter of trial and error until you find an improvement. Don't be guided by anything other than the Tune Method! For example don't assume that a linear supply is going to be better than a SMPS, or that a SMPS will be better than a linear supply, or that just because one linear supply sounds better than one SMPS, it'll always be the case. There are no reliable patterns!
Don't forget the support - it's critical to ensuring a good performance.
Good luck, and most of all, enjoy the journey - it's great fun!
For me 4 or 1 is the obvious alternatives apart from a source upgrade. KRDS is very good but a KDS/1 is better.Offerdal wrote:Some upgrade thoughts. Only afford one of these. Want A upgrade to be A signifikant Change. Want to buy used items. The black IC will be changed to silver when one pair turn up.
1 pre. KK1/ Sagatun
2 amp. KCT/ Tundra stereo
3 speaker. Klångedang T1
4 Harmonihyllan
Other thoughts? Which one Will be the best choice. Have no long plan but dont going to Change for A long While after this.
Sagatun is superior to a Kikkin and Harmonihyllan improves the performance of all the boxes.
Hard to chose without a home trial but at least the Sagatun is possible to try out before a purchase.
Good luck!
/Erik
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Music Lover
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- Joined: 2007-01-31 20:35
- Location: In front of Lejonklou/JBL/Ofil
Source first = I would for the 3k€ you seems to spend on the upgrade first get a LSNAS and the best pre-used harmonihylla you can find.
With many people upgrading from Mimer 3.1 to Mimer K, is should be possible to buy used Mimer 3.1 shelves.
Then you ask a TRUSTED person (Linn dealer or friend) that understand Tune Dem, to install your system.
After that (in the future) get a KDS/1.
Speaker and amps = good enough. A source upgrade will bring larger musical improvement.
With many people upgrading from Mimer 3.1 to Mimer K, is should be possible to buy used Mimer 3.1 shelves.
Then you ask a TRUSTED person (Linn dealer or friend) that understand Tune Dem, to install your system.
After that (in the future) get a KDS/1.
Speaker and amps = good enough. A source upgrade will bring larger musical improvement.
It's all about musical understanding!
Agree with posts suggesting source first, although I've personally not heard the benefits of LSNAS/Harmoni racks. Certainly a pre-amp upgrade can be easily trumped by a good source upgrade.
I owned a KK1 and Kikkin1 for a while, so was familiar with the performance gap. But the Kikkin combined with Urika easily outperformed the KK1 and Linto when directly comparing the two options. It was somewhat strange to experience, knowing how much better the KK1 is than Kikkin, and hearing all that performance advantage vanish, simply by maintaining a better signal from the phono stage into the Kikkin. Not only that, but the Urika/Kikkin was miles better than what I was used to (KK1/Linto.)
Of course, Urika/KK1 took it to another level again. You would still have a pre-amp upgrade to look forward to in future.
I owned a KK1 and Kikkin1 for a while, so was familiar with the performance gap. But the Kikkin combined with Urika easily outperformed the KK1 and Linto when directly comparing the two options. It was somewhat strange to experience, knowing how much better the KK1 is than Kikkin, and hearing all that performance advantage vanish, simply by maintaining a better signal from the phono stage into the Kikkin. Not only that, but the Urika/Kikkin was miles better than what I was used to (KK1/Linto.)
Of course, Urika/KK1 took it to another level again. You would still have a pre-amp upgrade to look forward to in future.
I have to say that I'm not convinced that "source first" can be applied to support on all occasions. I have yet to hear about tests showing that a better support (not "the floor" compared to something) is more important than a actual component upgrade, and it is still likely to be more room dependant than a upgrade of the electronics.
LSNAS is most likely a great upgrade, but you better be prepared to make the effort of sourcing the components, building it and installing all software.
LSNAS is most likely a great upgrade, but you better be prepared to make the effort of sourcing the components, building it and installing all software.
Re: Offerdal system swe
Some update info,
-Started with Tundra 1.2 in, Klout out (regret I sold it, would like to have it for my second system, PM if you want to sell me one). God upgrade.
-Sold KRDS, bought KRDS/1. God upgrade.
-Harmonihyllan Oden with Mimer 2b top shelf in. God upgrade.
-All silver IC, unbalanced
-Bought an Majik LP 12 (Kore, Lingo 2, Adikt, Trampolin 2)
-Just bought an KK/1. Very big upgrade. Could have been a sagatun but the KK come up.
System today:
LP 12 on mimer
Lingo 2
KK/1
KRDS/1
Kairn as Phonostage
Tundra 1.2
M109 (played a lot with Kan mkI, but I think they need to be active before go ahead M109, will try to test this)
Very happy with the system right now. A little bit surprised because I use the LP12 more than the ds. Think the LP12 sound more fun.
No big changes planned but like to get Gaio/ Slipsik, maybe change one shelf to mimer and put the ds there. Maybe the shelf that made the LP12 sounds better than ds. Not planning for Exakt. In the longer run like to have Klångedang T1, listened to these several times at tonlaget and really impressed.
One question, do the kairn invert phase when used in this setup. PH1 in, matrix out. Is matrix better than rec out.
/Anders
-Started with Tundra 1.2 in, Klout out (regret I sold it, would like to have it for my second system, PM if you want to sell me one). God upgrade.
-Sold KRDS, bought KRDS/1. God upgrade.
-Harmonihyllan Oden with Mimer 2b top shelf in. God upgrade.
-All silver IC, unbalanced
-Bought an Majik LP 12 (Kore, Lingo 2, Adikt, Trampolin 2)
-Just bought an KK/1. Very big upgrade. Could have been a sagatun but the KK come up.
System today:
LP 12 on mimer
Lingo 2
KK/1
KRDS/1
Kairn as Phonostage
Tundra 1.2
M109 (played a lot with Kan mkI, but I think they need to be active before go ahead M109, will try to test this)
Very happy with the system right now. A little bit surprised because I use the LP12 more than the ds. Think the LP12 sound more fun.
No big changes planned but like to get Gaio/ Slipsik, maybe change one shelf to mimer and put the ds there. Maybe the shelf that made the LP12 sounds better than ds. Not planning for Exakt. In the longer run like to have Klångedang T1, listened to these several times at tonlaget and really impressed.
One question, do the kairn invert phase when used in this setup. PH1 in, matrix out. Is matrix better than rec out.
/Anders
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Ozzzy189
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- Joined: 2011-08-30 18:49
- Location: North Lincolnshire -UK.
- Contact:
Re: Offerdal system swe
I think a big step up would be sagatun monos. They're considerably better than the KK and the stereo version.
Then a nice move to mono 2 tundras and you're there!
Nice upgrades I bet it sounds excellent!
Then a nice move to mono 2 tundras and you're there!
Nice upgrades I bet it sounds excellent!
ADS3/SagMono/Tundra 2.2- . Totem Tribe Tower.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Lejonklou demos available in the N of England.
Re: Offerdal system swe
I've had Kairns (two of them actually) and used Slipsik for many years now, updated to 5.1. Kairn's phonostage is good but it's likely worthwhile to go for either Gaio or Slipsik. But I've never actually heard a Gaio.
You want a real difference? get a Radikal. Project arm? Look for s/h Ekos2.
You want a real difference? get a Radikal. Project arm? Look for s/h Ekos2.
My understanding is that's only applicable for the outputs to power amps. Matrix or Rec out? No idea, just compare them.One question, do the kairn invert phase when used in this setup. PH1 in, matrix out. Is matrix better than rec out.